556 vs 6.5 creedmor

[DawsonC]

I'm looking to build or buy my first long range coyote gun, wanting to start cheap and upgrade to a better barrel and trigger in a year. Where I hunt I've got clear shots at 1200 plus yards so want to reasonably shoot to 1000. Would you choose a 6.5 or 556 caliber in an AR platform? Also if you've got brand recommendations you'd like to share I'd appreciate it. TIA

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[menhaden_man]

Way different rounds - your 6.5 CM is going to be an AR-10 (like the 308, also done in 7 MM-08 by some), and 556 is the AR-15 (that platform can be had in 223 Wylde, 300 Blackout, 6.5 Grendel, etc).

1000 yards is a big time stretch for a 223/556, though I still think that’s a great option for a cheap build/starter gun sort of thing for coyotes. I’d check out the 223 Wylde build kit with the 18” stainless bbl offered by PSA. Accurate, killer, cheap ammo, very affordable build.

Next up from that would probably be the Grendel... and if you want to go big, the 6.5 CM in a AR 10 platform.

PSA has great deals and their guns shoot. Check out Kotaboy’s reviews on their CM and Grendel offerings.

For my first, I’d probably go Wylde.

 

[DawsonC]

Way different rounds - your 6.5 CM is going to be an AR-10 (like the 308, also done in 7 MM-08 by some), and 556 is the AR-15 (that platform can be had in 223 Wylde, 300 Blackout, 6.5 Grendel, etc).

1000 yards is a big time stretch for a 223/556, though I still think that’s a great option for a cheap build/starter gun sort of thing for coyotes. I’d check out the 223 Wylde build kit with the 18” stainless bbl offered by PSA. Accurate, killer, cheap ammo, very affordable build.

Next up from that would probably be the Grendel... and if you want to go big, the 6.5 CM in a AR 10 platform.

PSA has great deals and their guns shoot. Check out Kotaboy’s reviews on their CM and Grendel offerings.

For my first, I’d probably go Wylde.

Would the 6.5 grendel be middle of the road? Still be able to get to 1000? And part of the reason I was considering going up to the 6.5 CM was to shoot antelope and similar sized game.

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[cmahoney]

Sounds like 6mm is what your looking for. There is good factory ammo for 6mm Creedmoor and .243 Winchester. What type of rifle are you looking at?



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[DawsonC]

Sounds like 6mm is what your looking for. There is good factory ammo for 6mm Creedmoor and .243 Winchester. What type of rifle are you looking at?



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I'm open to anything, I've got a local guy that'll build it for me, just wanted to ask a few other people's opinion before I decided

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[Goatie]

I’ve center punched prairie dogs at 550 with a 55gr vmax from a 16” AR to watch them crawl 10yards back to their burrow. Use a faster 6mm cartridge for long range yotes. However I feel like if you’re not shooting yotes as a way to protect your livestock, it’s a bit of a bad idea to plan on shooting them way out there. They’re a smaller target than they look. No offense meant, but if you’re questioning A 556 at 1k you don’t have the experience to be shooting them at even half that.

 

[DawsonC]

I’ve center punched prairie dogs at 550 with a 55gr vmax from a 16” AR to watch them crawl 10yards back to their burrow. Use a faster 6mm cartridge for long range yotes. However I feel like if you’re not shooting yotes as a way to protect your livestock, it’s a bit of a bad idea to plan on shooting them way out there. They’re a smaller target than they look. No offense meant, but if you’re questioning A 556 at 1k you don’t have the experience to be shooting them at even half that.

Yeah I don't have the experience to shoot yotes at 1000 and it is for livestock protection, but the best way to get experience is to shoot steel and learn how the rifle performs.

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[hodgeman]

The 5.56 and the AR platform are all done at that range. You can get a very accurate AR...but it's going to cost you. Even an "above average" one won't be anywhere near consistent enough to shoot at 1k.

If a guy really wanted to shoot that kind of distance- a bolt gun in a fast 6mm or a fast twist 22-250 would be the ticket.

 

[Mt Al]

I'm not an extreme long range shooter, but hope to try someday. However, I have a 556/223 whatever, a 6.5 Grendel and a 6.5 Creedmoor. They'll all shoot coyotes but, IMHO, if you're looking for a long poke and thinking of antelope - then deer, etc, at long range I'd definitely go 6.5 Creedmoor. You can do it all with little compromise.

 

[DawsonC]

I'm not an extreme long range shooter, but hope to try someday. However, I have a 556/223 whatever, a 6.5 Grendel and a 6.5 Creedmoor. They'll all shoot coyotes but, IMHO, if you're looking for a long poke and thinking of antelope - then deer, etc, at long range I'd definitely go 6.5 Creedmoor. You can do it all with little compromise.

I've got no problems getting to where I'm comfortable shooting coyotes at 1000 but with antelope I'd never want to take a shot that far

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[menhaden_man]

Would the 6.5 grendel be middle of the road? Still be able to get to 1000? And part of the reason I was considering going up to the 6.5 CM was to shoot antelope and similar sized game.

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The Grendel is middle of the road - pretty sweet and definitely a step up from the 556... but I'd probably say it's a solid 400-500 yard gun for smaller critters at best; great BC but not enough sauce to get out much further. Kotaboy has a review on the PSA Grendel if you search for it on YouTube.

Honestly, if you're talking 1,000 yards, I agree with the other guys that you might want to rethink the AR platform and take a harder look at some of the great bolt action options. I'd say no way for anything in a AR15, and definitely a challenge in anything in the AR10.

Then I'd also buy a 223 Wylde (will take both 556 and 223)! You can nab one of these kits from PSA, buy a stripped Anderson or AP lower, and build it yourself for under $600. Drop one of those SWFA scopes on there (maybe 6x) when the sale hits and you'd have a sweet, affordable setup for cheap shooting.

PSA 18" Rifle-Length .223 Wylde 1/7 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-lok MOE EPT Rifle Kit w/MBUS Sight Set

Barrel: 18" 416R stainless steel barrel, chambered in .223 Wylde, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a rifle-length gas system. The barrel is finished with a .750" diameter low-profi

palmettostatearmory.com

 

[DawsonC]

The Grendel is middle of the road - pretty sweet and definitely a step up from the 556... but I'd probably say it's a solid 400-500 yard gun for smaller critters at best; great BC but not enough sauce to get out much further. Kotaboy has a review on the PSA Grendel if you search for it on YouTube.

Honestly, if you're talking 1,000 yards, I agree with the other guys that you might want to rethink the AR platform and take a harder look at some of the great bolt action options. I'd say no way for anything in a AR15, and definitely a challenge in anything in the AR10.

Then I'd also buy a 223 Wylde (will take both 556 and 223)! You can nab one of these kits from PSA, buy a stripped Anderson or AP lower, and build it yourself for under $600. Drop one of those SWFA scopes on there (maybe 6x) when the sale hits and you'd have a sweet, affordable setup for cheap shooting.

PSA 18" Rifle-Length .223 Wylde 1/7 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-lok MOE EPT Rifle Kit w/MBUS Sight Set

Barrel: 18" 416R stainless steel barrel, chambered in .223 Wylde, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a rifle-length gas system. The barrel is finished with a .750" diameter low-profi

palmettostatearmory.com

Thanks I'll definitely look into a bolt action setup

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[GunsAreFun]

I’d go 6.5 Grendel or 6.5 Creedmoor if you want one rifle to do both things. The Creedmoor is ballistically superior, but your initial cost and weight is going to be higher going up to the AR-10 platform.

The Grendel is good on deer sized game 450-600 yards depending on load and barrel length. If I recall correctly, some are getting necessary velocity much further than that. The Grendel is probably the best hunting cartridge on an AR-15 lower your can get. Creedmoor probably has more options in commercial ammo available.

 

[Bubblehide]

There are companies offering AR platforms guaranteeing sub MOA accuracy. Do your build with quality parts and a match grade barrel and you can get the same. In other words, with modern machining, AR platforms can be as accurate as most bolt action rifles.

If you are going to hunt deer and antelope I'd go with 6.5 creedmoor. I built one not long ago, and it is a shooter. However, if you are going with an AR 10 platform (6.5 creedmoor is an AR 10 platform) you will want someone that knows what they are doing, as manufacturing for company to company is not the same as it is with Mil spec AR 15 platforms. In other words, mil spec AR10 platforms are NOT interchangeable as they are in mil spec AR 15 platforms. There are of course exception in the AR 10 platform, but you wont know if you do not know what you are doing. But, your builder should know.

Keep in mind that the AR 10 builds are not exactly light rifles. So if you really want something light, go with a complete rifle from someone like Christensen Arms.

 

[cmahoney]

.224 Valkyrie is another option.


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[Tahoe1305]

Agree with most here. You can build an AR10 light. But it costs you (both velocity and $$). I have one that is 5.75lbs and lighter than most AR15 platforms but has a 16” barrel and a lot of titanium so it wasn’t cheap (have another thread with parts list if you are interested).

As far as Grendel vs Creedmoor at 1000yds with factory or modest handloads, you are looking at a difference if ~60” of extra drop on the Grendel and ~180ftlbs of energy difference. You are also pushing expansion limits with most bullets at 1000yds with a Grendel.

I’d go Creedmoor if 1000yds ambitions are on the menu.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Go buy a Tikka or something similar in .243 or 6.5 CM. I wouldn't go with an AR if I was trying to save money.

 

[Backcountryrealtor17]

My recent AR build is a .224 with easily capable shots past 1000 yards. With a good scope and good ammo, it works awesome


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[Varminterror]

If you’re intrigued by a long range capable AR-15, wait a few months for Hornady to finally drop their 6mm ARC. It’s a 6.5 Grendel necked down to 6mm and pushed back slightly. Should get 105/108 class bullets to 2700fps. I’ve been shooting a 243 LBC which is a non-standardized wildcat almost exactly the same - necked down, but not pushed back. I absolutely love it. The 6.5 Grendel itself is fine, but the 6mm versions have a lot more speed and higher ballistic coefficients. Great for long range plinking and coyote killing.

The 6.5 creed is a LOT more cartridge. More messy at short range than the mini-length Grendel or 5.56/223.

In your shoes, I’d build a 18-20” light to mid-weight 5.56/223 upper for calling coyotes at shorter range and a 24” 6mm ARC or Grendel upper for the long range shooting, or build a 5.56/223 AR and buy a 6.5 creed bolt gun (I also STRONGLY prefer the 6 creed in a stick shift over the 6.5 creed, for the same reasons I prefer the 6 Grendel over the 6.5). Most called coyotes will come in closer than 400 yards, so having a shorter range option is sensical.

 

[ztrusky]

I just set up a savage 110 tactical ($650) and mounted a vortex viper hs lr ($500). Its a budget set up that's shooting very well with budget ammo our to 500 yrds so far. Winchester deer season xp for $18/box. All that potential and I shot my first yote with it at 20 yrds. Haha so it goes...I love the gun, I dont take enough time to shoot when I have my AR out. Plus you loose accuracy anytime you go semi auto.