6.5 PRC Reloading Help

[TristanJH]

Would you all say that N560 is a good powder choice or not temperature stable enough?

I recently ran through a bunch of loads for my new 6.5 PRC. Hammers are a great place to start as in my experience they are almost completely seating-depth-insensitive. n560 is also a great option for speed and although it is a bit less temp stable, that should not matter too much here in OR, at least outside of August. I found excellent groups with RL26, superperformance, and Sta-ball 6.5 as well, but I'd put 560 at the top of my list for sure.

 

[Unckebob]

I recently ran through a bunch of loads for my new 6.5 PRC. Hammers are a great place to start as in my experience they are almost completely seating-depth-insensitive. n560 is also a great option for speed and although it is a bit less temp stable, that should not matter too much here in OR, at least outside of August. I found excellent groups with RL26, superperformance, and Sta-ball 6.5 as well, but I'd put 560 at the top of my list for sure.

Where did you find load data for Staball 6.5?

 

[sveltri]

Would you all say that N560 is a good powder choice or not temperature stable enough?

560 is not stable, 565 is much better

 

[jonnyviceroy]

I've never really done any reloading. . just helped my dad when I was younger. I've inherited an old RCBS reloading press from my wife's grandpa and, at 42, I want to start reloading. I also just purchased a Seekins Precision in 6.5 PRC. I was disappointed in the speeds I got out of factory ammo (127grain LRX -2,800 FPS, 130 grain CX - 2850 FPS, ELD-X 143 grain 2,820 - FPS, ELD-M 147 grain - 2,700 fps). I also was shooting groups at about 1.75" at the tightest. My set up wasn't the best so it could have been me.

I'd love some suggestions on loads and components. I need everything, die, brass, powder, bullets, and primers.

Die - I was going to get the standard 2-die RCBS set off of Midway but then they had several other options including the MatchMaster Competition Bushing 2-die Neck Sizer Set. I'm not sure what the nomenclature "Neck Sizer" means. I know I'm driving someone crazy reading this. "Do your research!" "He hasn't even put any effort into this before asking questions!" In part, you'd be right. . and I might do more research before I buy dies but I don't learn fast by reading or watching. I learn by doing and I can't "do" until I buy the die and I'd rather glean some experience off of some of you fine folks before I waste money on something I'm just going to upgrade later. . so thoughts? I don't need perfect. I'm just looking to build great hunting bullets and maybe do some recreational shooting. This gun is ultra light so I'm mostly using it for hunting.

Bullet - I want to shoot mono metal for deer and black bear out to 500 yards. I also purchased some some 143 ELD-X bullets to reload for some longer range messing around an possibly hunting. For the mono metal I plan on shooting the Hammer 125gr HHT. I also just recently came upon the Badlands Precision Super Bulldozer-2 which seem to gain alot in BC but I'm still leaning toward the Hammer HHT's. No major question here but open to comments and thoughts regarding either mono-metal bullets.

Powder - Steve with Hammer told me to look at RL26 and N560 and to start with 57 grains. He thought I could get in the 3,400's but that sounds crazy to me. . especially with a 21" barrel. Either way, I wanted RL26 but can't find it. Would N560 be a good option? I can find that on Midway. What about N565? I have H1000 but velocities aren't as good with that in the published data I've found and I will probably just use that for the 143 ELD-X's.

Brass - I'm considering Hornady, ADG, or Peterson. Is Hornady that bad? I was looking at going with ADG but it appears that guys that have tried both might like Peterson better. Thoughts? I saw the note on the ADG description that you have to use lower powder charges. Does that seem to be a detriment to overall speed? My goal for all of this is to go with something that works rather well. I'm not going to do extensive load developement and I don't need a set up or components that are finnicky.

Summary - So right now, I'm thinking my top pick is Peterson Brass, N560 powder, and Hammer 125gr HHT's. I'll be aiming for 3,200 fps if possible but I want to be sub MOA. I'll also work up some loads for 143 ELD-X's for longer range shooting and I'd like to get into around a1/2" at 100 yards. Velocity will be less of a concern for me for the 143 ELD-X's. Any constructive thoughts or comments are welcome. Thank you for your time.

I actually have exactly a 21” barrel as well in my prc and am shooting 156 EOLs with 55 gr of n560 in adg brass with a fed 210m. They are going at about 2885. They shoot fantastic and group well. If you look up n560 temp stability on here I did a post where I tested it myself and several other experienced guys chimed in. It’ll be my go to powder for 6.5 prc with heavier for class projectiles. Best of luck!

 

[Vern400]

If you get RCBS full length competition sizing die and the competition micrometer bullet seater I like that combination. You can't set neck tension with it. It's fixed but you can full length size, or adjust the die to bump the shoulder back, or adjusted up further and neck size.

2 weeks ago I was getting frustrated with a 223 bolt action. I had not been able to get really good loads for it. So I turned the traditional load development upside down. I used the same powder, the same charge, and the same primer and the same brass. I loaded six different bullets in lots of five.

I let THE RIFLE pick the bullet.
It didn't like any 55 gr projectile
It didn't like Hornady 60 grain traditional varmint bullets or VMAX. I had already tried everything with these. To no avail.
It shot one hole at 100 yd with Sierra game Kings with one bullet about 0.25 in from the main group.
It shot one hole also with match Kings. A 0.42 diameter hole.
Then I checked it on a chronograph and it was running just over 3,000 ft per second which is perfect for me. I shot those same 2 good loads out to 400 yards and point of impact is virtually identical.

It is very possible that your rifle will pick the bullet. You might get lucky copying somebody else, but your rifle will also pick the primer and powder combination. If you fight something that's not working, you will lose. The people that win don't fight their rifle. They find out what it wants and makes it happy.

 

[TristanJH]

Where did you find load data for Staball 6.5?

I had seen someone try it on the hammer forums. Going back over my notes, I went as high as 59gn but chose to avoid it due to case fill and due to the fact that my Hammer 124 load was a backup to a backup.

 

[bpshtr]

Dies - I don't get wrapped around the axle here, I've had worse experiences with some of the most expensive dies on the market. I prefer Hornady custom grade because they're cheap, have an effective lock ring that doesn't damage threads, and effectively designed. I polish my expander balls down to .003" below bullet diameter because I prefer more neck tension.

Bullet - Not a big fan of mono's, but understand why some people may prefer them. I recommend listening to this https://shoot2hunt.com/35-bullet-ballistics-a-hunters-guide/

Powder - Lots of options, R26 is pretty hard to find and I prefer Hodgdon powders for temp stability and consistency, even if it sacrifices a small amount of velocity. From what I've read about N565 it should be temp stable and a great candidate for the PRC, might try some myself soon.

Brass - I prefer Peterson and use it in multiple rifles, and every time it has pretty much been plug and play. It may not be quite as hard as ADG or Lapua, but I haven't had any issues getting good velocities and it sizes very consistently.

Primer - In today's market just use what you can get a brick of. Either large rifle or magnums will work, but obviously work up.

Summary - Start with the fundamentals and keep it simple. Make sure the rifle is properly assembled, degreased, torqued, etc. You might have to temper your expectations, because 1/2" rifles aren't as prevalent as shooters make them out to be. Most of the time those rifles are labeled that after producing a cherry picked 3 shot group. You'll get much better results shooting larger sample sizes with less variable changes. Despite the reloading folklore, .003" seating depth changes, .001" neck tension changes, neck turning, .3gr powder charge changes, etc. won't turn a bad combination into an ace load. Either it shoots or it doesn't. Here's an example of my 6.5 PRC load I did in a new rifle before this season, 140 TGK, Peterson brass, IMR8133, CCI 200 LRP, seated .010" off the lands (from initial throat measurements new), avg 2840 fps (under pressure, barrel only has 120 rds). The throats are short in the SAAMI chambers so the bearing surface is seated below the neck/shoulder junction at .010" off the lands. Hodgdon boox max is 59.9C, since I'm only .010" off the lands I loaded 1 round at 58gr, went out and let one rip into the dirt pile, slight ejector mark/swipe so I went in and loaded 20 at 57gr and went to the range to zero and validate. I suggest reading this too - https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/painless-load-development-mine.238400/
View attachment 612233

A lot of wisdom and experience in this posting right here.

 

[Hschweers]

Curious how it’s going for OP? Haven’t heard from him in 3 months despite the thread revival. Have you started loading for your PRC yet?

 

[northernalpine]

1/2moa is a nice place to be, but everything has to work together.

You have to be able to drive the rifle 1/2moa. A nice 2 lb trigger is much easier to control than a factory 4 lb. The stereotypical cast iron front rest and little owl ear front leather bag combined with rear bunny ear leather bag will get you to 1/2 moa faster than a different setup you have to struggle with - it’s a historical sure bet because it works. Boring, but it works. Bipods off the bench will often not shoot as well - test it if you must use a bipod. You can’t drive the rifle if you can’t see - I see guys struggle to get a small group using a 12” gong with bullet holes all over - no wonder.

Your barrel has to shoot 1/2moa. A $2k rifle doesn’t guarantee it - $1000 in reloading components won’t make a 1 moa rifle shoot 1/2 moa. Many guns in that price range can shoot that good, but just as many won’t. Learn how to clean the barrel and remove all copper fouling. You have to use a bore guide and one piece cleaning rod. I just run a copper remover on a patch over an undersized plastic brush. Just run it through once, turn it over & run it through again, wait 5 minutes and repeat until no copper green comes out, then two patches with oil and two patches to remove most of the oil. Use a 45 cal brush and larger dry patch to clean the chamber. A bore scope lets you see if things are clean - if a carbon ring or carbon fouling near the chamber develops use a bronze brush enough to break it up.

A new barrel is slick and pressures don’t develop as quickly for the first 100 rounds or so and velocities will be down, so shoot it 100 rounds then work up a load.

If you want an accurate load, follow someone who already has a 1/2 moa rifle and do what they do - don’t pick and choose a little from everyone’s techniques.

This is my method:
All brass is not the same - it’s not the exact same metal recipe. Lapua is harder brass and takes pressures better, and is well used by benchrest guys. Nosler brass or Hornady brass isn’t seen as much in benchrest, but you’re a mile away from benchrest so it probably doesn’t matter much, but buy the Lapua anyway.

Turn the necks so they are even - doesn’t matter what the number is, they just need to be even. Anneal case necks with a simple propane torch every reload, even new cases. Uniform the primer pockets each load. Case trimming for length doesn’t matter unless it’s past maximum - commonly accepted that his makes no difference in accuracy. Use a vld chamfer tool on new cases. Just wipe cases clean before sizing and again after to remove lube. Don’t touch the inside of the neck with lube and don’t brush out the carbon.

Prime with handheld tool. Don’t use old primers from your grandpa for accuracy loads.

Use a full length die that has bushings for adjusting neck tension. The neck bushing should leave the neck .003” smaller than the diameter after a bullet is seated. There is no expander needed. The shoulder should get set back just enough so there’s no pressure on the bolt as he cartridge is chambered - normally .001” to .002” setback from fired case.

Use a wilson straight line seating die and a small press made for that type of die.

Find the max seating depth your magazine can handle and still feed correctly. Darken a bullet with a sharpie and chamber the round - as long as the bullet isn’t into the lands with this seating, this is your max length.

Then get a starting load from a manual and gradually increase until high pressure signs are obvious. That’s shows your max load at the max length.

Use the max load and adjust seating depth down in .003” increments for 3 shot groups - do this with 7 loads. This is adjusting barrel vibrations slightly to find the harmonics that produce the best groups. If none of them will shoot 1/2 moa that powder is out. If none of your powders will shoot then you either need to change bullets or get a new barrel.

If the rifle won’t shoot your first group out of the first powder and first bullet to under 1 moa I’d predict nothing will get it to 1/2 moa. Three shot groups will show what doesn’t shoot well, not what shoots the best - a 1 moa three-shot group can never shrink in size by putting more holes in the paper. If 1/2 moa is the goal, you don’t care if one load would shoot better, just eliminate the ones that shoot worse.

Get a log book, even if it’s just a $.49 spiral paper pad, and record everything you load and how it shoots.

I never mentioned a chronograph - it can’t help you go faster than a max load. The velocity sd doesn’t matter if it won’t shoot a tight group.

Best of luck - it’s a lot of fun.

This is one of the best summarized reloading posts I’ve ever seen, @TaperPin appreciate you taking the time to put this gem out there for the rest of us mouth breathers.

 

[Harvey_NW]

This is one of the best summarized reloading posts I’ve ever seen, @TaperPin appreciate you taking the time to put this gem out there for the rest of us mouth breathers.

The secret here is to understand the nature of ballistics, and ask if that overly extensive prep and test process landed on a load that would shoot significantly better than a load that took 15 rounds to develop with properly FL resized brass loaded to 1gr under pressure with the same components. If the answer is yes, ask for statistically valid sample sizes proving such claim. I'll give you a hint, you won't get that proof.

Precision reloading won't get you to 1/2 MOA, precision components and gunsmithing is the only way to get precise results. Hand loads can give you more consistent ammo, but for the most part the precision is a byproduct of the components. It either works well, or it doesn't. You'll never be able to make a 1" combo shoot .5" consistently, no matter the amount of prep, or tweaking. Despite all the regurgitated reloading folklore..

 

[TaperPin]

This is one of the best summarized reloading posts I’ve ever seen, @TaperPin appreciate you taking the time to put this gem out there for the rest of us mouth breathers.

I remember the long struggle to go from a bunch of 1 moa rifles to one that shoots 1/2 that. No amount of experimenting with dozens of factory Remington, Ruger or Winchester rifles was doing it. My first 1/2 moa gun would shoot very well with cheap brass, normal primers, basic FL dies, and the only powder ever tried in it. Since then I’ve copied the reloading process of guys shooting much better than 1/2” and it just seems normal and straight forward now - it essentially always works if the rifle is capable.

This summer there are a few new to me barrels that should shoot quite well - I want to reload both my normal way and a very very basic way like is found in the reloading 101 section of reloading manuals to see how many will still break into 1/2 moa range. I’ve been gathering the absolute cheapest used reloading press, scale, and dies for the experiment to better understand what I was doing right and wrong in my younger days when just starting out.

 

[northernalpine]

The secret here is to understand the nature of ballistics, and ask if that overly extensive prep and test process landed on a load that would shoot significantly better than a load that took 15 rounds to develop with properly FL resized brass loaded to 1gr under pressure with the same components. If the answer is yes, ask for statistically valid sample sizes proving such claim. I'll give you a hint, you won't get that proof.

Precision reloading won't get you to 1/2 MOA, precision components and gunsmithing is the only way to get precise results. Hand loads can give you more consistent ammo, but for the most part the precision is a byproduct of the components. It either works well, or it doesn't. You'll never be able to make a 1" combo shoot .5" consistently, no matter the amount of prep, or tweaking. Despite all the regurgitated reloading folklore..

Sounds like you’re no slouch yourself, don’t think I didn’t bookmark your post in here as well

 

[7wssm]

Pm me I can help you. I have loaded for three 6.5 Prc’s with 125 Badlands bd2, all 3 consistently shoots .25-.3 moa 5 shot groups @ 100 yards with single digit es/sd’s