California game management

[Bcoonce117]

California is probably one of the worst states when it comes to managing the wild game herds. It’s where I live, so I obviously hunt it the most.
Predators
Can’t hunt mountain lions. Can’t use dogs for bears anymore. And deer populations seem to be declining more as years go on. A friend of mine talked to a forestry biologist and they had trail camera pictures of 61 different mountain lions in one small area that I used to hunt. Idk how they know that they’re different cats but still seems excessive. I’ve even heard a rumor that California wants to reintroduce wolves. Why not issue tags for mountain lions with a quota. Once quota is met, season closes. I myself have seen 4 throughout the years

Deer season:
I feel maybe California should try a longer archery season and shorter rifle season but rifle season for 2-3 weeks at the end of October and maybe a week into November with a 3 point or better for rifle season. Fork or better for archery. Maybe significantly reduce tag quota for rifle.

Im no genius when it comes to this type of thing, everyone feel free to put in the 2 cents

 

[RockinU]

I feel like the ship has sailed on anything being governed by science or sense in CA, they seem to prefer emotion, and I'm not betting on it getting better.

 

[Bcoonce117]

Also maybe some doe tags would help for the people who want meat and don’t care about antlers. Like I said I haven’t gone to college and studied this stuff.

 

[Bcoonce117]

I feel like the ship has sailed on anything being governed by science or sense in CA, they seem to prefer emotion, and I'm not betting on it getting better.

People don’t understand, in order for us to live, something always must die. Directly or indirectly, it doesn’t matter. The people in San fransicko will never understand.

 

[RockinU]

People don’t understand, in order for us to live, something always must die. Directly or indirectly, it doesn’t matter. The people in San fransicko will never understand.

In their defense, I understand they are pretty preoccupied watching where they step...

 

[Smithb9841]

Here are 2 more things to add I think there’s a lot more deer in California than people realize. I know i Know I’m talking crazy but hear me out... there are a ton of deer on private land that isn’t accessible to most of the general public. That’s basically out of our control and isn’t going to change.
But secondly there is a ton of country at least in the areas I hunt that is nearly inaccessible because there is so much thick cover that we can’t get through it.. there isn’t a large enough effort in the national Forest to allow logging and tree clearing bcuz you have too many protestors complaining about how it’s destroying the environment because they don’t know any better..

 

[Bcoonce117]

Here are 2 more things to add I think there’s a lot more deer in California than people realize. I know i Know I’m talking crazy but hear me out... there are a ton of deer on private land that isn’t accessible to most of the general public. That’s basically out of our control and isn’t going to change.
But secondly there is a ton of country at least in the areas I hunt that is nearly inaccessible because there is so much thick cover that we can’t get through it.. there isn’t a large enough effort in the national Forest to allow logging and tree clearing bcuz you have too many protestors complaining about how it’s destroying the environment because they don’t know any better..

The areas that have burned. The brush has already grown back twice as thick. Logging helps thin everything out. When they used to log in one of the areas I hunt, there were always deer in that area because loggers knock down food the deer can’t get to

 

[87TT]

You are still laboring under the delusional idea that there is game management in CA. There isn't. Mountain lion will never be legally hunted in CA ever again. Lions and bobcats along with bears will eat all the deer some day. All they want to do is keep enough hope around to get your money. They will spend it to gill net and poison trout out of lakes for the frogs but could care less for hunters and fishermen. Wolves are there and being protected by the DFW. That's why they changed their name to Dept. of Fish and Wildlife. How much do you think that cost? New signs uniforms, badges, stationary ect.

 

[Huntindog45]

there is a shit ton of logging going on in California. It is such a myth that it isnt. pull up a google earth map of nor cal and look at all the clear cuts on SPI land which is the largest land owner in the west. Norcal looks like a huge checker board right now. Typically this would be great for dear. Unfortunately the first thing SPI does when new vegetation starts to grow is they apply round up to the entire unit. They leave it a wasteland so instead of a logging unit going through normal stages of succession it goes from forest to dirt to a plantation with one species of evergreen planted in row crops. This is usually critical deer habitat down in the mid elevation ranges. You should see it when they are done. every oak, every shrub, everything that is important to deer is dead. Throw in the fact that they have now closed off all their roads I would argue that nothing has hurt California deer hunting more than SPI land management.

 

[Bcoonce117]

You are still laboring under the delusional idea that there is game management in CA. There isn't. Mountain lion will never be legally hunted in CA ever again. Lions and bobcats along with bears will eat all the deer some day. All they want to do is keep enough hope around to get your money. They will spend it to gill net and poison trout out of lakes for the frogs but could care less for hunters and fishermen. Wolves are there and being protected by the DFW. That's why they changed their name to Dept. of Fish and Wildlife. How much do you think that cost? New signs uniforms, badges, stationary ect.

We spend money where it doesn’t matter.
That should be California’s state slogan right there

 

[Bcoonce117]

there is a shit ton of logging going on in California. It is such a myth that it isnt. pull up a google earth map of nor cal and look at all the clear cuts on SPI land which is the largest land owner in the west. Norcal looks like a huge checker board right now. Typically this would be great for dear. Unfortunately the first thing SPI does when new vegetation starts to grow is they apply round up to the entire unit. They leave it a wasteland so instead of a logging unit going through normal stages of succession it goes from forest to dirt to a plantation with one species of evergreen planted in row crops. This is usually critical deer habitat down in the mid elevation ranges. You should see it when they are done. every oak, every shrub, everything that is important to deer is dead. Throw in the fact that they have now closed off all their roads I would argue that nothing has hurt California deer hunting more than SPI land management. View attachment 120640

I don’t know much of anything about the areas outside of d6 and d7 and while there is logging. In some areas. Others seem to be ignored. I never said they didn’t log. More like they don’t log enough

 

[amassi]

DFW sends out surveys and continually the response is that hunters are in favor of opportunity to hunt over quality of hunting. Most respondents are in favor of the status quo.
It sucks but it is what it is, theres no shortage of deer in ca but there is an overabundance of hunters with tags.
Also, ca hunters weren't very good at hunting mtn lions. Trappers kill way more now than hunters ever did when they were allowed to.

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[Bcoonce117]

I’ve taken a few of those surveys but I’m a quality over quantity guy, so I guess I’m not the majority.

 

[Smithb9841]

there is a shit ton of logging going on in California. It is such a myth that it isnt. pull up a google earth map of nor cal and look at all the clear cuts on SPI land which is the largest land owner in the west. Norcal looks like a huge checker board right now. Typically this would be great for dear. Unfortunately the first thing SPI does when new vegetation starts to grow is they apply round up to the entire unit. They leave it a wasteland so instead of a logging unit going through normal stages of succession it goes from forest to dirt to a plantation with one species of evergreen planted in row crops. This is usually critical deer habitat down in the mid elevation ranges. You should see it when they are done. every oak, every shrub, everything that is important to deer is dead. Throw in the fact that they have now closed off all their roads I would argue that nothing has hurt California deer hunting more than SPI land management. View attachment 120640

Like I said in my post “where I hunt at”... there might be a shit ton going on in certain areas but that’s not the case everywhere. And since the Rimfire around Cherry Lake that area there is much more being done to clear out and open up space because people finally seen what happens when a forest fire breaks out in an overgrown area it burned down so much and wasn’t able to be contained.

 

[Huntindog45]

Like I said in my post “where I hunt at”... there might be a shit ton going on in certain areas but that’s not the case everywhere. And since the Rimfire around Cherry Lake that area there is much more being done to clear out and open up space because people finally seen what happens when a forest fire breaks out in an overgrown area it burned down so much and wasn’t able to be contained.

yah that wasnt directed at your post...it was more a general statement about an ongoing issue few seem to know about.

 

[amassi]

I’ve taken a few of those surveys but I’m a quality over quantity guy, so I guess I’m not the majority.

Unfortunately we are in the minority and will never outvote the a zone/b zone gang/d zone gang

It blows my mind that b and d tags are selling out now.

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[RockinU]

DFW sends out surveys and continually the response is that hunters are in favor of opportunity to hunt over quality of hunting. Most respondents are in favor of the status quo.
It sucks but it is what it is, theres no shortage of deer in ca but there is an overabundance of hunters with tags.
Also, ca hunters weren't very good at hunting mtn lions. Trappers kill way more now than hunters ever did when they were allowed to.

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You are being sarcastic about trappers vs hunters on mountain lions, right?

 

[amassi]

You are being sarcastic about trappers vs hunters on mountain lions, right?

Unfortunately not, they're very effective. Mtn lion harvest from hunting was never very high and that was with hounds. Extrapolate that to today without hounds and I'd bet less than 50 harvest per year. Trappers use over 350 dep permits a year

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[RockinU]

Unfortunately not, they're very effective. Mtn lion harvest from hunting was never very high and that was with hounds. Extrapolate that to today without hounds and I'd bet less than 500 harvest per year. Trappers use over 1500 dep permits a year

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Do you think that maybe that’s because of 30 years with no hunt, the population has grown to extreme proportion?

 

[amassi]

Do you think that maybe that’s because of 30 years with no hunt, the population has grown to extreme proportion?

No, mtn lion population is directly related to food availability. Areas with high deer pops have high cat pops. Also, They've moved into more suburban areas so are encountered more often. Also more ranches with livestock are closer to population centers so plenty of food around.

The winter 89 -91 killed the deer and predators take a lot of the blame for herd conditions. Coincidentally mtn lion populations also declined as their food source suffered.
When mtn lion population increase it's in relation to food source increases.

Mtn lions have become a red herring of sorts in California.
A better view of deer hunting here might be
Buck to doe ratios
Forest management practices
Deer moving west onto private property and no longer migrating back to nat forest.
Predation from lions and bears would be near the bottom, but its convenient so it keeps getting parroted


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