Corner Crossing: Public Wins!

[drdrop]

Seriously, dude? He took it this far because he’s a billionaire and used that money and influence to convince some equally dumb$hit sheriff, deputy, and county attorney to go out there and cite the hunters with a bogus trespassing charge.
After they all got embarrassed for that. He went after them civilly.
There’s a lot of stupidity in this one and it’s just not Fred even though he’s taking most of the heat.

Just a minor factual correction - Eshelman's lawyers went after them with criminal and civil charges concurrently. That was likely an intentional scare tactic for the hunters to back down early.

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

Has anyone spoken with the CO game and fish about this? I hunt a unit where I’ve been harassed by an outfitter about getting to close to corners and when I filed a complaint on the last hunt the game warden was awesome but told me they actually have a state law about corner crossing that they site under. Wonder how that will go in a couple weeks on my 3rd season hunt… plan to test this as I’ve always wanted to go to the land locked block of land the outfitter treats as private.
Called the warden and left a message to see but nothing back yet.

 

[MagnumHntr]

How are you guys finding the survey markers, Ive only found 1 and have looked at more than a dozen corners. Land owners now pulling the pins?

 

[sodaksooner]

Has anyone spoken with the CO game and fish about this? I hunt a unit where I’ve been harassed by an outfitter about getting to close to corners and when I filed a complaint on the last hunt the game warden was awesome but told me they actually have a state law about corner crossing that they site under. Wonder how that will go in a couple weeks on my 3rd season hunt… plan to test this as I’ve always wanted to go to the land locked block of land the outfitter treats as private.
Called the warden and left a message to see but nothing back yet.

They may have a state to state trespass statute, but no federal to federal jurisdiction.

Here is what AI says. Take with a grain of salt.

Does not apply to state land
It is critical to understand that this federal ruling and interpretation does not apply to state-owned land in Colorado.

• Illegal to cross state land: According to the Colorado Attorney General's office, it is illegal to corner cross between parcels of state-owned or state-leased land.
• Land types covered: This includes state trust land, state wildlife areas, and state parks.
• Only federal-to-federal: The corner crossing ruling applies strictly to public lands managed by the federal government, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and U.S. Forest Service.

AI responses may include mistakes. For legal advice, consult a professional. Learn more

 

[Jpsmith1]

Part of me wonders if Fred took this issue this far because he's not a complete dick? If he never would have pushed this issue, corner crossing would still be illegal, so he actually helped make it legal and screwed other landowners who previously were treating the landlocked as their own.

Putting benevolence on someone who tried to financially ruin 4 blue collar dudes is another level.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Yep, if he was smart he would have given those 4 guys full reign of the ranch, let them camp at his ranch, and in exchange, they keep quiet.

Good NDA and all. Maybe a couple landowner tags...

 

[ben h]

Putting benevolence on someone who tried to financially ruin 4 blue collar dudes is another level.

I guess, I'm just truely puzzled by Fred's legal menuverings if his end goal was to maintain control of landlocked public parcels with private corners. What was his upside for moving this case forward? A civil judgement from 4 guys that would be forced to bankrupt out of it? Fred isn't a stupid guy and this was a very forseable outcome. The only worse outcome for him is if the Supreme Court did hear the case and he lost there too.

 

[Jpsmith1]

I guess, I'm just truely puzzled by Fred's legal menuverings if his end goal was to maintain control of landlocked public parcels with private corners. What was his upside for moving this case forward? A civil judgement from 4 guys that would be forced to bankrupt out of it? Fred isn't a stupid guy and this was a very forseable outcome. The only worse outcome for him is if the Supreme Court did hear the case and he lost there too.

He thought the court would side with him because he has more money than they do. Thought that the sheer volume of money he could throw at it would win.

It would take a lot of convincing to disabuse me of this idea.

The uber-rich are not used to hearing "no" and they are less used to not being able to buy whatever they want, including legal decisions. "Better" or more expensive lawyers tend to get more favorable judgements for them in our very fair and equitable legal system /sarcasm.

I also don't think for a second this issue is dead. Ol Freddy is stinging because he got his peepee slapped and he doesn't like it. I expect further harassment of hunters trying to cross to public on and around his properties. The fines for doing so are pennies to him. They don't matter. Doing things to make the ladder crosser the missouri 4 made impossible or more difficult to use. Anything to start another case, find a new and novel legal argument to try again.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

All the has to be done is the landowner remove the corner pins. The gps that everyone uses arn't that accurate. If you are just a few feet off, you are trespassing.

 

[wapitibob]

All the has to be done is the landowner remove the corner pins. The gps that everyone uses arn't that accurate. If you are just a few feet off, you are trespassing.

Pretty hard to prove you're off by 2 feet when there isn't a pin. It goes both ways.

 

[RyanT26]

All the has to be done is the landowner remove the corner pins. The gps that everyone uses arn't that accurate. If you are just a few feet off, you are trespassing.

Good! I hope they pull every corner pin out there.

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

They may have a state to state trespass statute, but no federal to federal jurisdiction.

Here is what AI says. Take with a grain of salt.

Does not apply to state land
It is critical to understand that this federal ruling and interpretation does not apply to state-owned land in Colorado.

• Illegal to cross state land: According to the Colorado Attorney General's office, it is illegal to corner cross between parcels of state-owned or state-leased land.
• Land types covered: This includes state trust land, state wildlife areas, and state parks.
• Only federal-to-federal: The corner crossing ruling applies strictly to public lands managed by the federal government, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and U.S. Forest Service.

AI responses may include mistakes. For legal advice, consult a professional. Learn more

I came up with the same info. I’m wanting to cross BLM to BLM and called a different office and still hadn’t received a call back..

I’m hoping to get a solid answer in the next week or two cause this opens up three more squares of scouting.. really hoping each state puts out a release rather quickly as this is the heart of hunting season and there’s no way this isn’t popping up on the same day. The emails went out to everyone.

 

[nodakian]

They may have a state to state trespass statute, but no federal to federal jurisdiction.

Here is what AI says. Take with a grain of salt.

Does not apply to state land
It is critical to understand that this federal ruling and interpretation does not apply to state-owned land in Colorado.

• Illegal to cross state land: According to the Colorado Attorney General's office, it is illegal to corner cross between parcels of state-owned or state-leased land.
• Land types covered: This includes state trust land, state wildlife areas, and state parks.
• Only federal-to-federal: The corner crossing ruling applies strictly to public lands managed by the federal government, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and U.S. Forest Service.

AI responses may include mistakes. For legal advice, consult a professional. Learn more

Much as I hate to give credit to AI, this is essentially correct. The 10th Circuit ruling only applies to Fed-to-Fed corner crossing. States have jurisdiction over state and private corner crossing.

 

[drdrop]

Much as I hate to give credit to AI, this is essentially correct. The 10th Circuit ruling only applies to Fed-to-Fed corner crossing. States have jurisdiction over state and private corner crossing.

This is an untested legal concept. In the case of Wyoming, the UIA of 1885 was before statehood in 1890 when the state was granted federal lands, some in checkerboard. Those state lands may have inherited the UIA.

 

[nodakian]

This is an untested legal concept. In the case of Wyoming, the UIA of 1885 was before statehood in 1890 when the state was granted federal lands, some in checkerboard. Those state lands may have inherited the UIA.

That is an interesting potential exception to the general principle. I will be curious if and how it works through the court systems.

I would assume private-private crossing would remain under state jurisdiction since federal authority typically ceases after patent (except over any reservations in the patent). A potential exception for state-state crossing could rock more boats in some scenarios.

Fun stuff.

 

[Mk7mmSTW]

Has anyone spoken with the CO game and fish about this? I hunt a unit where I’ve been harassed by an outfitter about getting to close to corners and when I filed a complaint on the last hunt the game warden was awesome but told me they actually have a state law about corner crossing that they site under. Wonder how that will go in a couple weeks on my 3rd season hunt… plan to test this as I’ve always wanted to go to the land locked block of land the outfitter treats as private.
Called the warden and left a message to see but nothing back yet.

Had a great talk with two different offices of the Colorado Game And Fish yesterday. You can corner cross in the state now, and you can make contact with the fence if the fence is on the property line. You cannot make contact with the land at any point. You can use a device to assist in crossing the corner if the fence cannot be crossed. You cannot retrieve game or shoot across a corner if you have to cross private land to do so.

This just opened up two large squares that I’ve dreamed about hunting for years.

 

[CJ19]

Had a great talk with two different offices of the Colorado Game And Fish yesterday. You can corner cross in the state now, and you can make contact with the fence if the fence is on the property line. You cannot make contact with the land at any point. You can use a device to assist in crossing the corner if the fence cannot be crossed. You cannot retrieve game or shoot across a corner if you have to cross private land to do so.

This just opened up two large squares that I’ve dreamed about hunting for years.

All,

Be cautious not to damage fences if you choose to cross over them guys. I know most people are but some type of property damage will be 1 way to create a situation for everyone.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Had a great talk with two different offices of the Colorado Game And Fish yesterday. You can corner cross in the state now, and you can make contact with the fence if the fence is on the property line. You cannot make contact with the land at any point. You can use a device to assist in crossing the corner if the fence cannot be crossed. You cannot retrieve game or shoot across a corner if you have to cross private land to do so.

This just opened up two large squares that I’ve dreamed about hunting for years.

Having to use a device because a landowner obstructed access to public land (which is now the ruling of the fed court) is were its a bit BS in the long run imho. Not expecting this to be resolved overnight obviously.