Ghost Gun / 80% lowers law change

[204guy]

I guess I'm failing to see where that answered the question. Not that this is an interrogation or that you need an attorney. I'll probably be viewed as a 2nd amendment anti by all the extremists. I fall exactly in the middle.

I'm just failing to see the "why" with all the current firearms on the market that are already manufactured and for sale that somehow don't meet the needs of someone and they feel the need an non serialized item that is partially built already? An answer of "because I can" is just fine by me. Just a curiosity is all. While owning semi auto pistols, large capacity magazines, AR-15s, extended mag shotguns, long range high powered centerfire rifles, etc. I've never felt the necessity for an 80% lower. So if they ban them whoop dee- it won't affect me, or my rights to defend myself, or from me purchasing another Glock, Daniel Defense, Kimber, etc.

When did partially completed lowers/80% glock frames come onto the picture? Was anyone complaining about it prior to that?

This is such obvious foot in the door bs. The guys building and using 80% stuff are enthusiasts, gun guys that enjoy the hobby- a huge percentage of crime is committed by a small percentage of the population, these guys aren't in that group. The whole ghost gun thing is stupid. They're trying to lump guns with serial #'s removed and 80% lowers into the same category. We should make a federal law making it illegal to remove serial #'s since those are the guns actaully being used in crime.... Oh wait.

 

[slick]

Yeah, I guess you can go ahead and crucify me. But if 80% lower kits were banned I wouldn't be any the wiser nor do I think it would solve gun violence, nor do I think it would hinder anyone from owning a firearm that they are already legally able to acquire.

Yes criminals and going to be criminals. Whatever I guess.

 

[HandgunHTR]

While owning semi auto pistols, large capacity magazines, AR-15s, extended mag shotguns, long range high powered centerfire rifles, etc. I've never felt the necessity for an 80% lower. So if they ban them whoop dee- it won't affect me, or my rights to defend myself, or from me purchasing another Glock, Daniel Defense, Kimber, etc.

This is the problem right there. Since it doesn't affect you, it never will, right? You do realize that the end game is for you not to be able to purchase another Glock, DD, or Kimber, right?
BS you say? OK, so why push so hard for gun manufacturers to be held liable for how people use their products? So they can be driven out of business.
Why push to have every firearm serialized and every transfer papered? So when they deem that that once perfectly legal firearm is now too dangerous for you stupid plebes to own, they know exactly where to go to get them and exactly who is now a felon if you don't have it or refuse to turn it in. Again, don't think that will happen? See Pistol braces, bump stocks, and binary triggers as examples. Not a big stretch for them to do the same with semi-automatic pistols (which coincidentally are the weapons most used in firearm homicides).
Why make kits illegal (which is the issue we are currently discussing)? Because it becomes "too easy" to get a firearm and it makes their end game (see above) unobtainable.
They want to throw out that only criminals are buying these kits, but in my experience the majority of them are being bought by enthusiasts who get a sense of accomplishment out of building and shooting something they made. The same goes for all the "semi-custom" rifles we see on this site every day.
In regards to the kits for suppressors, read through any of the suppressor threads and you will see why people were buying kits and doing Form 1 suppressors. Because the .gov is so incompetent that it was taking over a year to approve a sound suppression device (that should be designated as safety equipment as it is in other countries) transfer using the Form 4 process.

This whole thing is a ploy to get their base to feel like they are doing something while continuing to erode our personal liberties and private property rights.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Yeah, I guess you can go ahead and crucify me. But if 80% lower kits were banned I wouldn't be any the wiser nor do I think it would solve gun violence, nor do I think it would hinder anyone from owning a firearm that they are already legally able to acquire.

Yes criminals and going to be criminals. Whatever I guess.

Ya know alot of hunters turn there nose up when hound hunting and bear hunting is on the block and regret it when they get over run with bears.

Maybe if we ban hunting it will prevent poaching?

 

[Flyjunky]

This is the problem right there. Since it doesn't affect you, it never will, right? You do realize that the end game is for you not to be able to purchase another Glock, DD, or Kimber, right?
BS you say? OK, so why push so hard for gun manufacturers to be held liable for how people use their products? So they can be driven out of business.
Why push to have every firearm serialized and every transfer papered? So when they deem that that once perfectly legal firearm is now too dangerous for you stupid plebes to own, they know exactly where to go to get them and exactly who is now a felon if you don't have it or refuse to turn it in. Again, don't think that will happen? See Pistol braces, bump stocks, and binary triggers as examples. Not a big stretch for them to do the same with semi-automatic pistols (which coincidentally are the weapons most used in firearm homicides).
Why make kits illegal (which is the issue we are currently discussing)? Because it becomes "too easy" to get a firearm and it makes their end game (see above) unobtainable.
They want to throw out that only criminals are buying these kits, but in my experience the majority of them are being bought by enthusiasts who get a sense of accomplishment out of building and shooting something they made. The same goes for all the "semi-custom" rifles we see on this site every day.
In regards to the kits for suppressors, read through any of the suppressor threads and you will see why people were buying kits and doing Form 1 suppressors. Because the .gov is so incompetent that it was taking over a year to approve a sound suppression device (that should be designated as safety equipment as it is in other countries) transfer using the Form 4 process.

This whole thing is a ploy to get their base to feel like they are doing something while continuing to erode our personal liberties and private property rights.

Pretty much said it all right there!!

It boggles my mind that some are so ignorant that they can't see what is happening.,...although that is true about a lot of things in this country right now.

 

[slick]

They want to throw out that only criminals are buying these kits, but in my experience the majority of them are being bought by enthusiasts who get a sense of accomplishment out of building and shooting something they made.

This whole thing is a ploy to get their base to feel like they are doing something while continuing to erode our personal liberties and private property rights.

I would assume that in your experience you don't hang out with criminals too often so you wouldn't know if they use 80% parts or not. Is that a safe assumption?

Ya know alot of hunters turn there nose up when hound hunting and bear hunting is on the block and regret it when they get over run with bears.

Maybe if we ban hunting it will prevent poaching?

I'm not saying banning 80% lower's is going to solve violence committed by criminals. Not once did I say that or allude to it- just that everything is regulated. I'm not obtuse to the motives of anti gun groups, but to pretend that your rights are so infringed when you can still go buy a Glock 19 is a little absurd. If someone wants to take their Glock 19 frame and grind on it and stipple it so they can be labeled an enthusiast they still can. It doesn't preclude a firearms enthusiast from obtaining the firearm that the 80% is mimicking.

How about we also use another shitty example... What if your neighbor just pumped all of their sewage into their yard...Oh wait, there's a regulation for that.

 

[WCB]

I would assume that in your experience you don't hang out with criminals too often so you wouldn't know if they use 80% parts or not. Is that a safe assumption?


I'm not saying banning 80% lower's is going to solve violence committed by criminals. Not once did I say that or allude to it- just that everything is regulated. I'm not obtuse to the motives of anti gun groups, but to pretend that your rights are so infringed when you can still go buy a Glock 19 is a little absurd. If someone wants to take their Glock 19 frame and grind on it and stipple it so they can be labeled an enthusiast they still can. It doesn't preclude a firearms enthusiast from obtaining the firearm that the 80% is mimicking.

How about we also use another shitty example... What if your neighbor just pumped all of their sewage into their yard...Oh wait, there's a regulation for that.

So.....you think EVERYTHING should be regulated just for regulation sake? So if the government says you can have a car and drive it but only X amount of miles or limit its speed to 60MPH. That would be fine because cars have regulation? But hey for only $1000 more your car can go 75MPH or $2000 more you have unlimited miles.

And with what others have said...what if every major part of a firearm had to have a serial number and you had to do a background check every time (oh yeah it costs you a fee for the check by the way)...You think that is just ok because "regulation". Come on.

There has already been the far fetched idea to serialize Ammunition...but it is ok because "regulation"

 

[BRTreedogs]

I would assume that in your experience you don't hang out with criminals too often so you wouldn't know if they use 80% parts or not. Is that a safe assumption?


I'm not saying banning 80% lower's is going to solve violence committed by criminals. Not once did I say that or allude to it- just that everything is regulated. I'm not obtuse to the motives of anti gun groups, but to pretend that your rights are so infringed when you can still go buy a Glock 19 is a little absurd. If someone wants to take their Glock 19 frame and grind on it and stipple it so they can be labeled an enthusiast they still can. It doesn't preclude a firearms enthusiast from obtaining the firearm that the 80% is mimicking.

How about we also use another shitty example... What if your neighbor just pumped all of their sewage into their yard...Oh wait, there's a regulation for that.

I think the intire serialization and 4473 as a whole is infringement.
You're never gonna convince me that I should accept more undue burden just because there is still an avenue to own a serialized version.

Just like suppressors its absolutely a crock of shit I have to do all this crap to own one. Its not preventing anything.

 

[slick]

I certainly don't support it. I'm just saying if 80% 'ers went away we would still have all same firearms available to us except some off brand glock and/or AR lowers, etc. so while the bill isn't going to be effective at anything they claim it to be, i still don't buy into the crying about not being able to get an 80% plastic frame.

Count me lucky, but the government regulation rarely affects what I decide to do or don't on the daily.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I certainly don't support it. I'm just saying if 80% 'ers went away we would still have all same firearms available to us except some off brand glock and/or AR lowers, etc. so while the bill isn't going to be effective at anything they claim it to be, i still don't buy into the crying about not being able to get an 80% plastic frame.

Count me lucky, but the government regulation rarely affects what I decide to do or don't on the daily.

I could give a rats about most hunting going away because I don't do it.
But that doesn't prevent me from standing with my brothers when someone comes for what they love.

 

[slick]

That's great. You're a better man than I am.

I am undoubtedly for the regulation of wildlife. Look at how well our grand ole fore fathers did that (ps- not well) God forbid if there were regulations regarding firearms. We're pretty lucky as is, and if the only thing on the docket was 80% lowers to go away (which I realize it isn't) I would let them take those plastic pieces.

The world isn't red or blue, and if the removal of 80%'ers made half of the populous feel safer albeit misplaced, I'd give them that.

 

[redcorn65]

People seriously don’t understand the “id be none the wiser if it were banned” attitude is literally a snowball effect and eventually it will be something that does effect you. I voted for trump but when he banned bump stocks that pretty much did it for me. Never owned a bump stock nor do I see a point to for myself but I know others enjoy that freedom. I understood once people knew the president could ban something such as a bump stock with the stroke of a pen, it would snowball into hey guys you don’t need [insert xyz]. Imagine being a human who thinks he has the authority to tell another human he cannot possess something he enjoys, especially someone who enjoys responsibly. It’s only people who want left alone who suffer from this Shit.


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[Flyjunky]

The world isn't red or blue, and if the removal of 80%'ers made half of the populous feel safer albeit misplaced, I'd give them that.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[Flyjunky]

By the way, did anybody just catch the press conference about the subway shooting? Did you catch how the mayor of NY describe the gun......"from the schools, to nightclubs, movie theaters, and concerts these killers are using weapons of mass destruction to massacre innocent people"...."ending gun violence means changing gun laws"..."we cannot stop the killings if we don't stop the guns"

Supposedly the gun used and recovered at the scene was a Glock 19, so now a handgun is a weapon of mass destruction?

And here are some of you saying, don't worry, it's no big deal about 80%er's being banned, they won't come after anything I use....laughable.

 

[slick]

I could go back and quote myself if you'd like.

I'm aware of the, generally speaking, Democratic agenda to remove firearms of all variety and form and function from the hands of law abiding citizens. I'm aware this bill is misplaced, is calculated, and utilizes fear to sway the mass populous much like any kind of regulation coming from politicians.

I'm aware of the 2nd amendment. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm aware of the sacrifices previous and current generations have made to allow you and I the freedoms from other countries and our own Government.

I'm also aware there are laws and regulations in place. Some beneficial to us, say sewage in the yard, speed limits, wildlife regulations. I'm aware there are regulations already in place for guns, but i also don't succumb that it should just be a free for all.

What i'm saying the world and all its glory isn't ended if they say "hey, you know what, maybe we shouldn't have plastic parts that are readily formed into major firearm components easily available"

Agree or disagree, that's it. But I'd bet money we'd get along over beers. Carry on gents.

 

[bsnedeker]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

And in this case they are giving up liberty for the FEELING of safety... pathetic.

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[BRTreedogs]

I could go back and quote myself if you'd like.

I'm aware of the, generally speaking, Democratic agenda to remove firearms of all variety and form and function from the hands of law abiding citizens. I'm aware this bill is misplaced, is calculated, and utilizes fear to sway the mass populous much like any kind of regulation coming from politicians.

I'm aware of the 2nd amendment. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm aware of the sacrifices previous and current generations have made to allow you and I the freedoms from other countries and our own Government.

I'm also aware there are laws and regulations in place. Some beneficial to us, say sewage in the yard, speed limits, wildlife regulations. I'm aware there are regulations already in place for guns, but i also don't succumb that it should just be a free for all.

What i'm saying the world and all its glory isn't ended if they say "hey, you know what, maybe we shouldn't have plastic parts that are readily formed into major firearm components easily available"

Agree or disagree, that's it. But I'd bet money we'd get along over beers. Carry on gents.

The part you're missing is its a free for all for anyone that doesn't care to follow the law anyways.

 

[Yoder]

Law makers look at guns like they are like nuclear weapons. So incredibly complex. In this day and age they can be produced easily. 3D printers, cast molding, machining equipment can be used by anyone. Gangs and cartels have money. They could easily make their own or buy whatever they want. The cartels in Mexico buy anything they want from China. I'm surprised they haven't started smuggling full auto AK's into our country to wreak havoc in every major city. I don't believe in ghosts so I don't have to worry about any news laws.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

By the way, did anybody just catch the press conference about the subway shooting? Did you catch how the mayor of NY describe the gun......"from the schools, to nightclubs, movie theaters, and concerts these killers are using weapons of mass destruction to massacre innocent people"...."ending gun violence means changing gun laws"..."we cannot stop the killings if we don't stop the guns"

Supposedly the gun used and recovered at the scene was a Glock 19, so now a handgun is a weapon of mass destruction?

And here are some of you saying, don't worry, it's no big deal about 80%er's being banned, they won't come after anything I use....laughable.

Living in NY I can tell you that our government is by far in the top two worst in the country. We go back and forth with California for stupidity but we can still use lead bullets.... Every gun transaction has to be through an FFL, we have the "Safe Act" (no pistol grips, no moveable stocks, no flash hider/ muzzle devise. petty sure a threaded barrel has to have a welded thread protector or brake, 10 round mags..... its ridiculous. Also, luckily part of the Safe Act was repealed however most ammo stores still refuse to UPS ammo into NYS because they aren't in the know on current law and I can carry 10 rounds in my 10 round mag. For a while we could only legally have 7 rounds in a 10 round mag....WTF. Try getting a pistol permit in most NY counties. Takes an act of congress. Luckily I've had mine for 15 years or so. Oh and want a suppressor?? Not a chance. I envy you guys that can hunt with suppressors.

 

[9.1]

Anyone see or read the speech? Comparing buying and assembling a couch to assembling a 100% done gun is laughable.

Not sure how that is relevant, but I agree completely. Couches can be really tough!