Good factual documentary on wolves

[2ski]

Ok you got me, it was a fact based opinion. To believe there will be any other outcome is naive. You go ahead a believe them when they lie to your face and tell you hunters will be a factor in management. By then it will be too late, but at least you got the facts and fact based opinions sorted out.

It wasn't fact based because he gave no fact to support his opinion. That's a fact jack!

I'm done here. You still seem to want to believe I'm arguing one side of the wolf issue. "You go ahead and believe" lol. Go look back and read my posts and decide I'm arguing a side. Then get back to me.

Sorry I let sveltri sidetrack the thread.

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[Titan_Bow]

So you saw your first wolf and now are a wolf expert. How many wolves now do you have pleasure killing live stock and peoples dogs in Colorado?

Are you willing to be allowed to hunt elk and deer once every 5 to 7 years for your wolves?

What the hell are you talking about? Where did I say that was now an expert on wolves? I am not in favor of reintroduction in my state of Colorado either. Thank you for making my point about the polarizing nature of this topic however.


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[Okhotnik]

What the hell are you talking about? Where did I say that was now an expert on wolves? I am not in favor of reintroduction in my state of Colorado either. Thank you for making my point about the polarizing nature of this topic however.


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Glad to hear that

By your post you seemed really excited a wolf looked into your eyes

My bad

 

[Titan_Bow]

Glad to hear that

By your post you seemed really excited a wolf looked into your eyes

My bad

It was a cool experience. I was bear hunting with my 13 year old son and we got to watch a wild ass wolf chomping on a moose carcass for 10 minutes or so. Yeah, I was excited. That doesn’t mean I’m instantly an anti hunter or pro wolf liberal.
The fact that we can’t be in awe at the sight of a wolf disturbs me. I’m in awe at many things in nature. The first time a bull elk screamed out a bulge at 25 yards away. The first time I watched two mature bucks fighting. The first time I saw a black bear up close or the time I was charged by a moose. All those experiences rank right there with my first wolf sighting. The day I no longer feel a since of awe at what Mother Nature has to offer is the day I quit hunting and just take up golf....


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[Okhotnik]

Thanks for the lecture.
Your encounter read like a love sick teen who saw his first girl without a bra.

I looked into the eyes of my first wolf in 1977 at 10 yards while bow hunting in NW WI as a teenager. I did not swoon and fall in love. I did not fall in love with it as saw what wolves did to our dog and neighbors’ livestock. A wolf or wolves ripped out our dog’s stomach and left it to die. I have seen countless wolves in the west, Alaska Canada and when I worked in Russia 4 years. I have seen many bears (!polar, black, grizzly) Siberian tigers hiking and remote fishing in Russia. Lions and leopards in Africa etc. I have wolves on my
Property now. I enjoy nature but certainly don’t attribute special magical qualities o wolves.

Colorado is going to get your wolves so don’t worry and you will not be allowed to manage them.

Do you still doubt wolves don’t kill sometimes for pleasure?

Are you for or against trapping and use of poison( if needed) to control wolves once introduced into Colorado?

Super easy to love and romanticize them living in urban Colorado where you have no wolves. I see the same infatuation with wolves from overweight ladies in their mommy jeans and Subaru’s viewing wolves from the parking areas in Lamar valley in the YNP.

 

[Titan_Bow]

Thanks for the lecture.
Your encounter read like a love sick teen who saw his first girl without a bra.

I looked into the eyes of my first wolf in 1977 at 10 yards while bow hunting in NW WI as a teenager. I did not swoon and fall in love. I did not fall in love with it as saw what wolves did to our dog and neighbors’ livestock. A wolf or wolves ripped out our dog’s stomach and left it to die. I have seen countless wolves in the west, Alaska Canada and when I worked in Russia 4 years. I have seen many bears (!polar, black, grizzly) Siberian tigers hiking and remote fishing in Russia. Lions and leopards in Africa etc. I have wolves on my
Property now. I enjoy nature but certainly don’t attribute special magical qualities o wolves.

Colorado is going to get your wolves so don’t worry and you will not be allowed to manage them.

Do you still doubt wolves don’t kill sometimes for pleasure?

Are you for or against trapping and use of poison( if needed) to control wolves once introduced into Colorado?

Super easy to love and romanticize them living in urban Colorado where you have no wolves. I see the same infatuation with wolves from overweight ladies in their mommy jeans and Subaru’s viewing wolves from the parking areas in Lamar valley in the YNP.

Classy response. Have a blessed day and good luck to you this hunting season.


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[2ski]

Thanks for the lecture.
Your encounter read like a love sick teen who saw his first girl without a bra.

I looked into the eyes of my first wolf in 1977 at 10 yards while bow hunting in NW WI as a teenager. I did not swoon and fall in love. I did not fall in love with it as saw what wolves did to our dog and neighbors’ livestock. A wolf or wolves ripped out our dog’s stomach and left it to die. I have seen countless wolves in the west, Alaska Canada and when I worked in Russia 4 years. I have seen many bears (!polar, black, grizzly) Siberian tigers hiking and remote fishing in Russia. Lions and leopards in Africa etc. I have wolves on my
Property now. I enjoy nature but certainly don’t attribute special magical qualities o wolves.

Colorado is going to get your wolves so don’t worry and you will not be allowed to manage them.

Do you still doubt wolves don’t kill sometimes for pleasure?

Are you for or against trapping and use of poison( if needed) to control wolves once introduced into Colorado?

Super easy to love and romanticize them living in urban Colorado where you have no wolves. I see the same infatuation with wolves from overweight ladies in their mommy jeans and Subaru’s viewing wolves from the parking areas in Lamar valley in the YNP.

I feel bad you're that jaded. Sorry to hear that dude. Truly sorry. It's unfortunate when people can't see the beauty in the little things but need to hate and fear them completely. I'm not criticizing. Just feel bad for you.

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[Okhotnik]

I feel bad you're that jaded. Sorry to hear that dude. Truly sorry. It's unfortunate when people can't see the beauty in the little things but need to hate and fear them completely. I'm not criticizing. Just feel bad for you.

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Living in the city gives you special nature appreciation skills

You’ve seen one wolf in your life and fell in love with it and are now a wolf expert

I don’t fear them. But understand them unlike you

Thanks for the passive aggressive second lecture

 

[RCB]

Amazing how quickly a thread can be ruined.

 

[Beendare]

Actually I think this thread points to a reality;

Folks that live with wolves day in and day out know the reality- the many downsides- the results presented factually in the video.

Very few of those folks think "wolves are cool" Of course its because they know the realities....and those realities are what the Wolf fans totally disregard.

.....

 

[zach14]

Actually I think this thread points to a reality;

Folks that live with wolves day in and day out know the reality- the many downsides- the results presented factually in the video.

Very few of those folks think "wolves are cool" Of course its because they know the realities....and those realities are what the Wolf fans totally disregard.

.....

I think you hit it right here. The perspective in the video is from people who are out in the woods with their livestock 365 days a year vs. the outdoorsy types who may spend a month or two out and about. Most hunters fall into the later as well. The reality/facts of the wolf impacts are ugly and i can't figure out why it is so hard for people to accept that. What makes a wolf more important than any other animal out there?

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Maybe I'm just cynical, but this appears to be a propaganda video for ranchers to try to increase their government subsidies. I didn't really understand the correlation to access to public land. Is it common for Idaho cattle ranchers to allow public access on their private land?

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[Ryan Avery]

I watched both videos and lots of other ones.

Classic wolf thread.

I am in wolf country a lot. I don't hate them. But I would not cry if they were gone. There affect on ungulates in North Idaho and North West Montana has been drastic. I watch elk all year long and have cameras out all year. The elk, in general, are not faring well no matter what Idaho Fish and Game wants to lie about.

 

[Okhotnik]

I think you hit it right here. The perspective in the video is from people who are out in the woods with their livestock 365 days a year vs. the outdoorsy types who may spend a month or two out and about. Most hunters fall into the later as well. The reality/facts of the wolf impacts are ugly and i can't figure out why it is so hard for people to accept that. What makes a wolf more important than any other animal out there?

Next time I run into a wolf on my property Im going to try and stare into its eyes to see its soul and connect with it.

My friend from Seattle taught me this. Kind of like that crippled kid on Game of Thrones. I think his name was Bran

 

[RCB]

I don’t have a strong feeling in either direction. On the one hand I place inherent value on the existence and population-level health of a native animal - even a predator. In other words, they deserve to exist in some capacity.

On the other hand, I sympathize with the ranchers whose livelihoods are actually negatively affected by their presence. I don’t have to deal with that, but I recognize it as a real issue for them. I can’t claim that my vague interest in seeing a wolf trumps the ranchers’ concerns.

I don’t particularly sympathize with hunters who want them gone solely because of their effect on ungulates - if such people exist. That strikes me as somewhat selfish, but perhaps I’m misunderstanding them. Ungulates managed to coexist with wolves prior to human intervention; I’m sure they could do it again. Perhaps herds will be substantially thinned - that’s okay, as long as it’s naturally stable.

I’m no expert on wolves, their effect on cattle or ungulates, so of course take my opinion for what it’s worth.

 

[realunlucky]

Ungulates managed to coexist with wolves prior to human intervention; I’m sure they could do it again.

What was the timeframe of this statement? Most ungulates almost didn't survive westward expansion either only to be saved soley by the hunter so maybe just maybe they have a right to be a bit selfish in thier conversation efforts.

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[RCB]

What was the timeframe of this statement? Most ungulates almost didn't survive westward expansion either only to be saved soley by the hunter so maybe just maybe they have a right to be a bit selfish in thier conversation efforts.

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I’m suggesting that wolves, deer, elk, moose, etc all managed to exist in the west prior to the white man arriving.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

What was the timeframe of this statement? Most ungulates almost didn't survive westward expansion either only to be saved soley by the hunter so maybe just maybe they have a right to be a bit selfish in thier conversation efforts.

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By westward expansion you mean humans right?

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[realunlucky]

I’m suggesting that wolves, deer, elk, moose, etc all managed to exist in the west prior to the white man arriving.

Is he going away anytime soon?

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[realunlucky]

By westward expansion you mean humans right?

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Correct they are a destructive bunch to be sure.

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[RCB]

Is he going away anytime soon?

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I think you misunderstand my point - maybe I was unclear. My point is that we know it is possible to for deer elk etc to coexist with wolves because that is what happened for tens of thousands of years prior to humans populating the west. That’s all I meant.