Good workouts to get the lungs ready for high elevation

[Coach Chris]

. Sadly, my shin splints are getting worse.

While everyone hashes out their personal bias vs science try these exercises to strengthen your tibialis anterior

Hunting is rucking
Nothing will prepare you for altitude except time at altitude

 

[Will_m]

Let’s see the chart correlated with a mountainous elevation profile and then put a 50# pack on and then see if it can be sustained. I’m not diminishing the effort unto itself, but it’s a different energy pathway than rucking and the training volume needed to sustain that effort under the weight of a 50# pack for thousands of feet of elevation gain, while surely possible, would be entirely impractical.

My impression was that you trained your low zones so that you could operate at a higher intensity and still remain within these zones. This is theoretically (according to Dr. Me) beneficial for mountain hunting because your ability to operate once you cross into zones 3-5 is capped as far as time is concerned. Thus, by increasing your work capacity in zone 2 you can go longer and faster, as in day after day.

However, his graph kind of made me question that. Why can't I just train to get used to being in zone 3-5 for hours on end and just haul azz everywhere? I would very much like to haul azz. Nothing feels worse than looking at the guy in front of you steadily increasing distance while you are wondering how many seconds you have until you have to stop for a break.

 

[Poser]

The heart doesn’t know you have weight on or how fast your going, it’s sole job is to pump blood. So yea I could but at much slower pace. The thing is you would never do a 3 hour climb while hunting. In my experience you walk 20 minutes or so stop look around, have a snack etc. the biggest difference though is when you are in very very good cardio shape, during those short breaks your heart rate drops considerably quicker than the guy that is not in shape, so when you start again your already more recovered. Again I am not saying you shouldn’t be physically strong, but I would trade 15 pounds on the bench press for the ability to run a mile a minute faster.

I did a 3 hour sustained climb last weekend getting to a glassing spot with an overnight pack on board and I regularly do similar efforts that during hunting season getting to a destination. While I agree that the heart doesn’t perceive weight, it’s a question of efficiency here. You’ll hit a threshold under the stress of weight where you are relying on your cardiovascular system more so than muscular endurance. My point is, for the purposes of rucking, that is inefficient. Your muscular system is going to facilitate that task much more efficiently over a plane of time. A sports car is faster, but you need the F450 to pull the horse trailer up the mountain. In this case, your most efficient pace will be one in which you can maintain a conversation and you should be able to sustain it for hours at a time. Backcountry skiers have a saying “you have to go slow to go fast” -sustaining consistent output is more efficient than shorter, more intense efforts. Fast Runners often spend so much time in zone 3 that they have a difficult time throttling back even if it is more efficient. Not only do you need the muscular endurance to do this efficiently, you need to spend ample time in this zone to understand how to throttle appropriately.

I almost never go anaerobic while out hunting, scouting or backcountry skiing as it’s just not an efficient pacing for the mountains. I do go anaerobic Mtn biking, but that’s working with the efficiency of mechanical gearing.

 

[bigcanyon]

My impression was that you trained your low zones so that you could operate at a higher intensity and still remain within these zones. This is theoretically (according to Dr. Me) beneficial for mountain hunting because your ability to operate once you cross into zones 3-5 is capped as far as time is concerned. Thus, by increasing your work capacity in zone 2 you can go longer and faster, as in day after day.

However, his graph kind of made me question that. Why can't I just train to get used to being in zone 3-5 for hours on end and just haul azz everywhere? I would very much like to haul azz. Nothing feels worse than looking at the guy in front of you steadily increasing distance while you are wondering how many seconds you have until you have to stop for a break.

I spend the majority of my training at zone 3 I am also at 5000ft which is obviously going to raise my heart rate compound to sea level during exercise. I think at this point we all need to just agree that everyone has different styles of training for the mountains. I prefer competitive running and strength training as an accessory to it and I have yet found anyone that I couldn’t keep up with even when we are packing animals. If you would like some example workouts I am more than happy to help you. My 14 miler yesterday at altitude is included zone 3 is just my easy pace.

 

[sd375]

While You certainly need an aerobic base and running can play a part in that, particular if you cycle it, My issues with running in general, particularly running 30-40 miles a week year around, is that it’s catabolic. Since rucking uphill with a pack is a muscular endurance event, you’re only going to stand to benefit from being considerably stronger than the typical runner. Ideally, running would be subordinate to other areas of fitness as it relates to hunting. If you are an actual runner, that’s your primary thing and you do races, that all look different, but a person who uses running as their primary means of training for backcountry hunting is likely going to be lacking in the muscular endurance department since that it a different energy pathway.

I do have a hunting and backcountry snowboarding partner that’s an mountain ultra racer. We put on camelbacks and go peak bagging, he’s hard for me to keep up with. His zone 2 is easily zone 3 for me (he’s also 10 years younger) and he’s often ~200+ yards out in front of me and I’m working hard to keep up. No doubt his cardiovascular system is better conditioned than mine. HOWEVER, we strap on 35# packs and do an overnight scouting trip, this scenario is reversed and I’m 200 yards out in front climbing to a glassing point at 12,800 with packs on and he’s the one struggling to keep up. The primary adaptation there is muscular endurance, not “cardio” like it is intuitive to believe and certainly nothing to do with getting your lungs “in shape” (is that is anything more than en expression).

That’s not to dismiss the fact that you need an aerobic base in order to achieve proper muscular endurance, but that base serves entirely subordinate to muscular endurance. If you are already strong, muscular endurance will come fairly quickly. In conjunction with strength training and some aerobic baseline maintenance, it’s something that can be effectively achieved by training it just once a week: uphill rucking in zone 2. Surplus strength will contribute considerably to continued performance after fatigue sets in (numerous studies to support this claim) and trying to build strength and muscular endurance at the same time is entirely inefficient.

As is the case in all of these threads, my advice is always the same: “get strong first” -some part of your year should ideally be dedicated to pure strength training. With studies suggesting that you otherwise lose ~1% of your muscle mass annually after the age of 40, if nothing else, you should be thinking about longevity and how you don’t want to end up. If you wake up at 50 and find yourself with 10% less muscle than you had at 40 and you weren’t very strong to begin with, you’re on the verge of serious decline and you’re going to have a much more difficult time realizing muscular endurance.

When you say "get strong first" and reference pure strength training, what kind of training are you referring to? High weight/low rep, low weight/high rep, etc.

 

[Will_m]

I spend the majority of my training at zone 3 I am also at 5000ft which is obviously going to raise my heart rate compound to sea level during exercise. I think at this point we all need to just agree that everyone has different styles of training for the mountains. I prefer competitive running and strength training as an accessory to it and I have yet found anyone that I couldn’t keep up with even when we are packing animals. If you would like some example workouts I am more than happy to help you. My 14 miler yesterday at altitude is included zone 3 is just my easy pace.

38 bpm resting heart rate.

Yeah, we are a little different, you and I.

 

[bigcanyon]

38 bpm resting heart rate.

Yeah, we are a little different, you and I.

I have seen 36!

 

[SemperHunter]

I'm fat and terribly out of shape. I'm working on it though using the MTN Tough program. What do you tremendously in shape people think about that program for preparation?

 

[Poser]

When you say "get strong first" and reference pure strength training, what kind of training are you referring to? High weight/low rep, low weight/high rep, etc.

Heavy, lower volume, progressive strength training, mostly in the 3-5 rep range.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

Try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, that will get your lungs going.

That’s why I am still alive today. The doctor who put the stent in me 7 months after I won the Pan No Gi said I was still alive because BJJ got me in such good shape.


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[justinspicher]

I think you have guys who live and play in the mountains arguing the same point but have a different opinion on how to get there as far as mountain fitness is concerned.

If you live below 5000’ you will have trouble in the mountains, its a fact. Most guys try to manage this through some sort of cardio program. They are doing what they can with what they’ve got.

On the flip side, those of us living in the mountains have the ability to work towards cardio bliss with a different approach due to our location. For instance, I live at 7500’, going to 10k is not a big deal, I do it a couple times a week. However, anyone coming from anywhere else outside of Colorado its straight gnarly. No matter how much a guy works, it takes a couple of days for him to get right. I see it every season with dudes who come out to hunt with me.

Long winded to say do what you think is going to work if you haven’t been here. If you have, and it worked keep it up or tweak as you see fit.

Good luck out there!

 

[Rokbar]

I have been running the last month to get the ol' lungs ready for higher elevation. Sadly, my shin splints are getting worse. I need some other workout ideas to keep my endurance up!

Keep it simple. All you need is a ruck, some weight, and a mountain. Start light. Everyday, go further, faster, and heavier. Even if it's just small improvements. Get your heart rate up as well.if you don't have mountains, find some stairs. If your shins start hurting, back off some for a while. Your body (legs) will get accustomed to climbing.
But remember, keep it simple and be safe!

 

[Clrems77]

I do a lot of different things for training. I did a 12 mile tempo on Monday at 5:45 mile pace and today was 14 miles easy at 7:10 pace. You make great points, I am just trying to say running is probably enough training for most People., but they do not do anything hard. The body adapts very quick to easy running. Easy running is amazing for teaching your body how to be more efficient, but it you want to have lungs you have to teach your body how to go anaerobic as well.

12 miler at a 5:45 pace!!!! Holy crap!

 

[bigcanyon]

12 miler at a 5:45 pace!!!! Holy crap!

Haha yes I am a competitive runner. I am looking to go around 2:20:00 for the marathon at Boston next year. I have two kids so I don’t get to train like the top elites at this point,but 2:20:00 would be close to the Olympic trials qualifying time.
I am Actually going to be starting a side business after archery season of coaching hunters who want to be better runners and possibly do a few marathons or half’s to help their hunting. I do not think anyone needs to train like me to be in shape to hunt the backcountry, but better cardio and some structured training would help a lot of hunters I think.

 

[bigcanyon]

12 miler at a 5:45 pace!!!! Holy crap!

Sorry 5:46. That is at 5000ft, by myself with some good old Colorado wind. Definitely in the 5:30s at low elevation with a group of guys.

 

[Clrems77]

Sorry 5:46. That is at 5000ft, by myself with some good old Colorado wind. Definitely in the 5:30s at low elevation with a group of guys.

BEAST MODE!!!!!

 

[BigCountry49]

Try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, that will get your lungs

yea, bjj and wrestling get you in great shape but the reality is they drastically increase the potential you will get injured before hunting season.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

Can you sustain that with a 50# pack going uphill, though? That’s the problem with applying running to rucking.

How is this for a 53 year old 271lb guy who has 6 herniated discs, 3 knee surgeries from college football and is a Widowmaker heart attack survivor. This is my Fitbit recordings from the first two days of elk hunting last year. Carrying about 40 pounds between bivy equipment, bow, Bino’s and food for two days. Elevation was 8400 at camp dropped 1000 feet in less than a 1/3 of a mile and back up the next ridge and reverse back to camp. I live on the NJ shore and drove 36 hours straight to Colorado before scouting the same route where my heart rate peaked at 196. The last time I had a heart rate that high was the day I had the heart attack.

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