Help Me Archery Experts

[jlw0142]

It wasn’t mentioned here much and i think it’s worth mentioning before you jump to 4mm shafts. Beendare hit on something with 5mm and 6mm. I’ve gone full circle after a bad experience with 4mm and high FOC once on a deer and then on a nice bull at close range. That is basically the phenomena of the fact that a smaller diameter shaft (4mm) with thicker walls takes longer to recover in flight than a larger diameter (6mm or .243) thinner walled shaft. You can google this or catch the guy from Firenock (Dorge) on a few podcasts. There is a bunch of physics behind it, but at about 15-20 yards the larger diameter shaft has recovered to straight flight where the thinner shaft is still influenced by archers paradox and recovering. Straight flight = maximum penetration. Now follow the trend of putting lots of weight up front and this is even more exaggerated. Think of it like a fish swimming and the arrow shaft going back and forth on more than one axis.
I understand the possible small benefits of less wind drift with 4mm but it’s not worth the headaches of outserts, halfouts and concentric concerns. I think I’ve found a happy medium in 6mm without the hassle of HIT inserts and collars or half outs that really have other baggage, but at least go 5mm (RIP, Axis) If you want smaller diameter. It worth looking at a 300 spine axis next to a 6mm Sonic and asking yourself if that outside diameter is really that different. It’s a big rabbit hole.

Thanks man, there’s a lot of great info here. I will definitely look into the 5 and 6mm. I think you’re right in that the tradeoffs are probably not worth it with the 4mms.


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[Beendare]

4mm with the integrated target points are awesome…not so when you have to install BHs.

I shot for Beman way back in the day (1980’s) and those 4mm shafts were great…but the components sucked. The components have improved a bit but some of the same issues are still there.

There is no downside to using a spine size over for a hunting shaft in a modern compound; tunes fine, more durable. Then square the ends of the carbon and assemble carefully with strong epoxy To get rock solid arrows.

 

[jlw0142]

4mm with the integrated target points are awesome…not so when you have to install BHs.

I shot for Beman way back in the day (1980’s) and those 4mm shafts were great…but the components sucked. The components have improved a bit but some of the same issues are still there.

There is no downside to using a spine size over for a hunting shaft in a modern compound; tunes fine, more durable. Then square the ends of the carbon and assemble carefully with strong epoxy To get rock solid arrows.

I like it, good info. Makes sense. 4mm sounds great on paper but y’all are making me lean towards 5 or 6 for future builds


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[Zac]

I like it, good info. Makes sense. 4mm sounds great on paper but y’all are making me lean towards 5 or 6 for future builds


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Everyone on here is talking you into a sensible middle of the road build. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s exactly what you already had. So I wouldn’t expect any different outcome if you smack a shoulder again. I would just stick with what you have instead of wasting money on a system that won’t do anything different. If you want the chance to break through the worst possible place to shoot a deer then you need to investigate the options I mentioned earlier.

 

[jlw0142]

Everyone on here is talking you into a sensible middle of the road build. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s exactly what you already had. So I wouldn’t expect any different outcome if you smack a shoulder again. I would just stick with what you have instead of wasting money on a system that won’t do anything different. If you want the chance to break through the worst possible place to shoot a deer then you need to investigate the options I mentioned earlier.

Everyone on here is talking you into a sensible middle of the road build. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s exactly what you already had. So I wouldn’t expect any different outcome if you smack a shoulder again. I would just stick with what you have instead of wasting money on a system that won’t do anything different. If you want the chance to break through the worst possible place to shoot a deer then you need to investigate the options I mentioned earlier.

Yeah, I’m with you. I totally listened to your advice and already got some 2 blades to try in 100 gr and am going to try different insert weights. Right now there are just lots of things at play because it’s busy season at work and I’ve got to get my bow tuned correctly before I can really start buying arrows and stuff. But I’ve got a friend who will cut me some different arrows to try and I’m going to get Archers Advantage. I’m just trying to take everyone’s recommendations into consideration because I’m relatively new to actually building my own arrows and such, but I’m tired of my bow shop cutting corners so I want to do it myself. Just trying to learn. I don’t want to blow all my money, but I don’t mind spending some extra cash to make sure I have the optimum setup for my specs. But I absolutely appreciate you and I’m listening to ya 100%.


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[Zac]

Yeah, I’m with you. I totally listened to your advice and already got some 2 blades to try in 100 gr and am going to try different insert weights. Right now there are just lots of things at play because it’s busy season at work and I’ve got to get my bow tuned correctly before I can really start buying arrows and stuff. But I’ve got a friend who will cut me some different arrows to try and I’m going to get Archers Advantage. I’m just trying to take everyone’s recommendations into consideration because I’m relatively new to actually building my own arrows and such, but I’m tired of my bow shop cutting corners so I want to do it myself. Just trying to learn. I don’t want to blow all my money, but I don’t mind spending some extra cash to make sure I have the optimum setup for my specs. But I absolutely appreciate you and I’m listening to ya 100%.


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Thanks man, I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other. Just give you the solutions that you are actually looking for. Shot placement, and arrow building is mostly philosophical, and there really isn’t any right or wrong answers.

 

[jlw0142]

Thanks man, I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other. Just give you the solutions that you are actually looking for. Shot placement, and arrow building is mostly philosophical, and there really isn’t any right or wrong answers.

Absolutely, and I appreciate you. I may message you with a couple questions when I can actually start getting the ball rolling with this. Definitely going to try archers advantage though. Great price


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[rugerhoyt]

Had to get the computer out instead of trying to type this on my phone. I'm a long ways from an expert, and this is my own opinion. I spent about 6 months after deer season of 2022 into spring of 2023 working on what you are working on to get ready for a hunt in Africa that I wanted to do with my bow.

Through deer season of 2022 I subscribed to the heavy hard hitting arrow group. Was shooting close to 700 grains of total weight. Most of my deer hunting was in close quarter kill plots so most shots were under 30 yards and if patient would get under 20 pretty easy.

However, I wanted to be ready for anything in Africa and went to work. I shoot a Hoyt RX-7 with a 28.5 inch draw maxed out at 71#. Lancaster Archery sells single arrows and I went through almost 6 brands trying to find what best worked. I settled on 300 spine Victory RIP TKOs cut at 28.5 inches. I picked these for 2 reasons. First, they were already spine aligned, and in my shooting their markings were pretty well spot on. That spine alignment also saved me time by cutting knock tuning completely out of the process. 2nd they are one of the lightest GPI for a 300 spine on the market. I was chasing FOC while trying to keep between 475 and 500 grains of total weight.

Once I had the arrow and knew it was spined correctly for my setup I just started shooting every head I had. With the stock 50grain outsert on the arrow, 150 grain points flew like money in my bare shaft tuning. also noted that my bow naturally rotated arrows left. So I fletched everything with a left helical (3 blazer vanes, no wrap).

I had been wanting to try the Iron Wills as well and figured Africa was the perfect reason to make the investment. I went with the Left Helical SB150s. I killed 7 animals in 5 days. Only one went more than 60 yards. Vitals on these critters are farther forward so the shoulder is always in the way. Dieker, warthog, baboon, and impala were no match, full pass throughs with arrows going well beyond the target. First big animal was a Kudu bull. Shot him broadside at 45 yards. Completely broke his front leg, caught the top of the heart and fractured the opposite side leg. He went 20 yards and piled up. Next Animal was a golden wildebeest bull. Shot him broadside at 30 yards. Blew all the way through him and stuck the arrow in a tree right behind him. he piled up in 40 yards leaving a beautiful blood trail through the brush. Last big animal was a gemsbok bull. When he showed up I had so much confidence in my setup nothing really scared me other than a full frontal shot. I killed the gemsbok quartering to me at 25 yards. Arrow went all the way through him and loaded in the joint of the opposite side back leg. he went 70 yards and piled up.

I will now shoot where I want, F that shoulder.

Build
300 Spine Victory RIP TKO with stock 50 gr outsert
28.5 inches
3 blazer vanes in left helical
Iron Will SB150's LH
485 grains total weight doing 285 FPS

reading through your setup, it seems like you might be over spined. even though that is better than under spined, it could still cause tuning problems. I would start with a total weight you want and go from there. break that weight down into components and use that to calculate your spine. Buy 2 of that spine and a set of field point and bare shaft tune it. this will get your rest and everything inline. the arrows will tell you what they like for weight up front. once you know that its just filling in blanks.

I try to do as much of my own work as possible. most of my circle of family and friends are the same size as me (draw length and poundage) so I keep a few arrows un fletched from different spines so if anyone changes bows, its easy to get them backup and running.

I might of said a lot about nothing, but I know what you are going through. took me 3 months to settle on what I wanted, and another 3 shooting the heck out of it.

Good luck!

 

[jlw0142]

Had to get the computer out instead of trying to type this on my phone. I'm a long ways from an expert, and this is my own opinion. I spent about 6 months after deer season of 2022 into spring of 2023 working on what you are working on to get ready for a hunt in Africa that I wanted to do with my bow.

Through deer season of 2022 I subscribed to the heavy hard hitting arrow group. Was shooting close to 700 grains of total weight. Most of my deer hunting was in close quarter kill plots so most shots were under 30 yards and if patient would get under 20 pretty easy.

However, I wanted to be ready for anything in Africa and went to work. I shoot a Hoyt RX-7 with a 28.5 inch draw maxed out at 71#. Lancaster Archery sells single arrows and I went through almost 6 brands trying to find what best worked. I settled on 300 spine Victory RIP TKOs cut at 28.5 inches. I picked these for 2 reasons. First, they were already spine aligned, and in my shooting their markings were pretty well spot on. That spine alignment also saved me time by cutting knock tuning completely out of the process. 2nd they are one of the lightest GPI for a 300 spine on the market. I was chasing FOC while trying to keep between 475 and 500 grains of total weight.

Once I had the arrow and knew it was spined correctly for my setup I just started shooting every head I had. With the stock 50grain outsert on the arrow, 150 grain points flew like money in my bare shaft tuning. also noted that my bow naturally rotated arrows left. So I fletched everything with a left helical (3 blazer vanes, no wrap).

I had been wanting to try the Iron Wills as well and figured Africa was the perfect reason to make the investment. I went with the Left Helical SB150s. I killed 7 animals in 5 days. Only one went more than 60 yards. Vitals on these critters are farther forward so the shoulder is always in the way. Dieker, warthog, baboon, and impala were no match, full pass throughs with arrows going well beyond the target. First big animal was a Kudu bull. Shot him broadside at 45 yards. Completely broke his front leg, caught the top of the heart and fractured the opposite side leg. He went 20 yards and piled up. Next Animal was a golden wildebeest bull. Shot him broadside at 30 yards. Blew all the way through him and stuck the arrow in a tree right behind him. he piled up in 40 yards leaving a beautiful blood trail through the brush. Last big animal was a gemsbok bull. When he showed up I had so much confidence in my setup nothing really scared me other than a full frontal shot. I killed the gemsbok quartering to me at 25 yards. Arrow went all the way through him and loaded in the joint of the opposite side back leg. he went 70 yards and piled up.

I will now shoot where I want, F that shoulder.

Build
300 Spine Victory RIP TKO with stock 50 gr outsert
28.5 inches
3 blazer vanes in left helical
Iron Will SB150's LH
485 grains total weight doing 285 FPS

reading through your setup, it seems like you might be over spined. even though that is better than under spined, it could still cause tuning problems. I would start with a total weight you want and go from there. break that weight down into components and use that to calculate your spine. Buy 2 of that spine and a set of field point and bare shaft tune it. this will get your rest and everything inline. the arrows will tell you what they like for weight up front. once you know that its just filling in blanks.

I try to do as much of my own work as possible. most of my circle of family and friends are the same size as me (draw length and poundage) so I keep a few arrows un fletched from different spines so if anyone changes bows, its easy to get them backup and running.

I might of said a lot about nothing, but I know what you are going through. took me 3 months to settle on what I wanted, and another 3 shooting the heck out of it.

Good luck!

Hahaha man, that’s sick! Just what I was looking for, I appreciate it! Fantastic advice, and I appreciate that you also care about totally optimizing your setup. Great stuff


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[Ho5tile1]

I’m sure a lot of folks gonna hate this but go to 500 grains with a single bevel super sharp your on animal performance will for sure go up. My wife is 24 inch draw length pulling 47 pounds and shoots a 500 grain arrow with iron will single bevels very slow and her arrows pass through deer like a hot knife through butter 30 yards and and under. Before she was shooting a 400 grain arrow with a slick trick and lost 3/4 of the deer she shot with zero pass throughs. Since moving to 500 and iron will every deer she has shot and that’s about 10 deer have been pass throughs and lost zero deer… it speaks for itself. Your mileage may be different?? I hunt with 550 grains and Iron will single bevels but I’m a 29 inch draw shooting 82 pounds… good luck


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[jlw0142]

I’m sure a lot of folks gonna hate this but go to 500 grains with a single bevel super sharp your on animal performance will for sure go up. My wife is 24 inch draw length pulling 47 pounds and shoots a 500 grain arrow with iron will single bevels very slow and her arrows pass through deer like a hot knife through butter 30 yards and and under. Before she was shooting a 400 grain arrow with a slick trick and lost 3/4 of the deer she shot with zero pass throughs. Since moving to 500 and iron will every deer she has shot and that’s about 10 deer have been pass throughs and lost zero deer… it speaks for itself. Your mileage may be different?? I hunt with 550 grains and Iron will single bevels but I’m a 29 inch draw shooting 82 pounds… good luck


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Sweet, that’s great advice! The proof is in the pudding. Definitely going heavier no doubt. And I am going to try IW’s and also going to give Day Six Evo’s a shot. I think I’m going to love the IW’s though. Thanks for the reply!


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[jlw0142]

This is what I have decided on for the time being. Got several different components to play with and make sure I get it right, but I feel like this is a solid setup. Thanks to everybody for responding and helping me out. Got lots of good advice and learned a lot.


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[SoDakGuy]

Spent the last couple nights reading through this thread as I'm in the exact same predicament right now. Tons of great info from all different point of views...

 

[Zac]

Sweet, that’s great advice! The proof is in the pudding. Definitely going heavier no doubt. And I am going to try IW’s and also going to give Day Six Evo’s a shot. I think I’m going to love the IW’s though. Thanks for the reply!


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Only real difference between IW, and Day 6 is one of them will rust and one will not. So depends on the type of environment that you hunt in. If I lived in Oregon, or Washington I would not go with a tool steel.