Help me pick a spotting scope! Kowa 663 vs Vortex Razor 65mm

[K_pem]

So I’ve been looking at a spotter for awhile now, primarily I will only use it while bear hunting spring, scouting in summer or on the off chance that I hunt elk in the later seasons in an area that’s conducive to longer range encounters. I usually archery elk hunt mostly for backpack hunts with the occasional later season rifle elk/mule deer backpack hunts. That being said weight wasn’t a huge issue but I wanted a “do it all” scope I could backpack with without much penalty for weight, which brought me to this size range.

I love the vortex warranty and had tried the razor 50mm, wasn’t that impressed with its clarity at full magnification, limited as it is. I tried my buddies razor 85mm and that performed much better but weighs too much for my liking. Got me thinking a Razor 65mm will be perfect weight and magnification/clarity/usability wise. But then, on the other hand, I have heard nothing but good about the Kowa 663 but it’s slightly more expensive and doesn’t have the same warranty level.

So that being said, given the Vortex Unconditional warranty, is the performance and slight added cost of the Kowa performance worth the warranty difference and additional price of say $300 ish?

 

[twall13]

I'm sure others will have more experience to speak from but in my limited experience with Vortex, you'll likely need to use their amazing warranty service at some point. They'll honor it, but it still sucks to ship things in for repair.

In comparing the Razor 65 side by side with my little Kowa 553, the Kowa is much smaller/lighter and really only loses to the Razor in field of view. Magnification is very similar, clarity I'd give the edge to the Kowa, and surprisingly given the difference in objective lens sizes, the Kowa does just as well in low light conditions. Granted the Kowa 663 you are looking at doesn't have the same level of glass but I'd still personally lean towards the Kowa if it were me.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Brian Fahs]

Kowa

 

[CApighunter]

I have a 662 Kowa the glass is much nicer than the vortex.

 

[K_pem]

The 662 is the model prior without the upgraded glass correct? Question is, is it so much nicer that you’d spend the extra and sacrifice some warranty to go that route?

 

[Brian Fahs]

I recently bought a brand new kowa 884. It has a 30 year warranty and is extremely well built and better to my eye than the comparable swarovski spotter I owned and sold.
If you are prone to drop , smash, abuse, and trash your optics go with vortex. For their quality they are able to replace the optics once or twice for the prices they charge. You win and vortex wins.
If you take good care of your optics and use care in handling and cleaning the kowa will last your lifetime. The extra money you spend for quality in optics will be forgotten in a few months. The decision to invest in quality gear will make you smile for your lifetime.

 

[Finn16]

Easy decision - Kowa.

 

[Tahoe1305]

So I’ll go against the grain here with a bit of evidence to back it....hopefully.

I had the 554 and gen I razor 65mm with 12-40 Leupold GR I was comparing during a bino review (link below). The attached resolution chart shows how each compared on various zooms. I believe this was at 400 yds in overcast skies.

I thought the razor was awesome. Edge to edge and center resolution was great. I didn’t have the 663/4 in there but I don’t think the razor is bad at all. I picked mine up for $580 new and have been pleased. I don’t care for the gen II because I like the dual nob focus (like kowa) vs the barrel focus.

All that said, I plan on picking up a 77/88 for my next spotter. I think Kowas are great I just thought the 554 gave up a little much in FOV and eye relief and I’m not doing Uber light backpacking right now so the 65 razor is fine.

Hope that helps.

$1000 Bino Comparison

I’m interested in your 10x42. Too new to PM you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I PM’d you.

www.rokslide.com

 

[Wapiti1]

Kick in the extra $500 and get the Kowa 77mm that has a $400 rebate right now.

I have the 664M. Excellent scope. 60X is actually usable on it, which can't be said for very many 65mm class scopes that offer it. Warranty wise, you would have to abuse it very badly to need it. It has been a durable scope for me.

But, IMO for a do all, buy once scope, the 773 or 774 is your huckleberry.

Jeremy

 

[Hatchet Jack]

I owned a Kowa 664 and razor 85 at the same time and the Kowa was a better scope even in low light.

 

[Corvus Corax]

Kowa

 

[tdot]

Kowa, optics are superior and you aren't likely to ever need the warranty.

 

[K_pem]

Kick in the extra $500 and get the Kowa 77mm that has a $400 rebate right now.

I have the 664M. Excellent scope. 60X is actually usable on it, which can't be said for very many 65mm class scopes that offer it. Warranty wise, you would have to abuse it very badly to need it. It has been a durable scope for me.

But, IMO for a do all, buy once scope, the 773 or 774 is your huckleberry.

Jeremy

Why do you say 77 over the 66? I want to be able to backpack without much penalty in weight.

 

[K_pem]

Has anyone actually used kowas warranty?

 

[Wapiti1]

Why do you say 77 over the 66? I want to be able to backpack without much penalty in weight.

I think there is a 14 ounce difference between the two. Not nothing, but not a big jump either.

If you are only needing it for sheep and goats, the 66 is better, or even the 50mm. Those critters are out in the daylight, and you typically don't need great performance in the twilight hours. If you want it for all around, deer, elk, sheep, moose, goat, chinchilla, and opossum, the 77 is a better choice, IMO. I am happy with my 66, but I also have an 80mm Leica for when I want to peer into the shadows.

That and the rebate makes that 77 about the best deal you will find on the best glass.

Jeremy

 

[BluMtn]

Has anyone actually used kowas warranty?

Won't need to. Built to use. There has been some discussion about the build quality of the KOWAs. Put their cover on them just like you would any other scope and forget it. I put stayon covers on all my spotting scopes.

Vortex, it is not a matter of if you will use it. Just of a matter of when you will use it. Will it be when it pukes on you while sighting in your rifle close to home or on a mountain miles from nowhere only to pack useless weight around the rest of your hunt.

 

[mthillrunner]

I had the 66 kowa. Great scope. I traded it for a 77. The 77 is better for sure. It’s slightly larger & weighs a bit more. To me the size & weight difference is worth it. I’ll not need a “better” scope. When I had the 66, I did have opportunity to compare it side by side to the razor. Kowa was just better to my eyes. The 77 is just wow!

 

[tdot]

When i was in the market for my first spotter i was lucky enough to compare the 663/773/883 Kowa. I was left with the opinion that if I was going to go above the 663, that I'd skip the 77 and invest in the 883. Optically the 77 was closer to the 66, the 883 is on a totally different level. But the 773's size/weight was too close to the 883. Pricewise at the time the 77 and 88 were closer too, now with the discounts available, my opinion mught change. But if you are going to move away from 65mm class scopes, I'd highly recommend looking at the 883.

 

[K_pem]

Interesting turn of events. While emailing Kowa directly asking about warranty and comparison to the Razor in relation to additional cost; it was actually recommended to me to go with the Razor and “upgrade to an alpha scope later”

 

[Tahoe1305]

Did you figure in alpha he was referring to the 88 series? Or do you think the 77 is lumped in there too?

That surprises me a bit.

That said, I may have received a “gem” of a 65mm razor but I need no more for now with it. It checks a lot of boxes.

I will take your sales rep advice and look to upgrade to kowa later in life though.

If you go the razor route you can find gen I for $600 range typical $700 new.