How often is 1 MOA "really" 1 MOA?

[Ithaca37]

This year one of my goals was to get serious about improving my accuracy beyond what's "good enough" and into "what's possible". New rifle, more time at the range, considering getting into handloading, etc.

My question is this...when we talk about a 1 MOA rifle or a 1/2 MOA rifle, is that EVERY group? Most groups? Some groups? What the rifle is capable of, does every time, or an average?

Let's say you have a rifle and ammo combo you expect to shoot 1 MOA. If you're at the range shooting off a bipod and a rear bag, and you shoot 10 three-shot groups at 100 yards with a couple minutes cooling between each. Would you expect EVERY group to be 1 MOA? Half of them? More / less?

Certainly I would think a portion depends on the shooter's trigger control, proper breathing, shooting technique, etc. I've fully (and properly) broken in the barrel with my new rifle that carries a "sub-MOA" guarantee. ~125 rounds down range. I've shot groups as small as 0.40", and as big as 3.5" at 100 yards. If I shoot 10 groups during a range session with factory hunting ammo (Nosler Accubond, Federal Terminal Ascent, Barnes LRX), roughly half of them will be MOA or better and the other half are 1.5" to 2.0". Is that a sub-MOA rifle? Am I a poor shooter that needs to work more on his technique? Is that level of inconsistency normal? Would the rifle manufacturer be surprised by that and/or consider those results sub-par for "sub-MOA" guarantee?

Thanks for any thoughts on this...interested in feedback and responses from those much more experienced than I...

 

[WeiserBucks]

You're overthinking it, just keep working on the fundamentals and keep shooting.

 

[SDHNTR]

Whoa. Slow your roll and stop over thinking this…

Minimize your variables. Do the same thing every time. 3 shots could be you, good or bad. Could just be dumb luck too.

3 shot groups mean nothing. You need a lot more for statistical significance.

Shooting multiple different types of ammo means nothing. Keep it uniform. Every barrel has a preference, you need to find it.

Find the ammo the rifle likes the best and stick to it. Buy cases of that ammo, all from the same lot.

Shoot a few 10-20 shot groups (cooling every few) and you’ll see some patterns develop. That’s the ____ moa your rifle shoots, with that ammo.

 

[fisherman983]

I'd be willing to bet that your groups shot with under 1/2 moa and the groups that were 2"+ are completely different lots. That's a problem. Your gun is obviously capable of shooting under moa if you feed it ammo it likes. Just gotta find a large supply of that and you'll be good

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[SPEDRAY]

Depending on caliber, I don't shoot more than three shots at a time. I will keep shooting the same target to get my "moa". But I am shooting a thinner profile barrel in a magnum caliber. I can always get under 1" moa in this gun. I know if i am over i did something wrong. If I have to shot a full clip ( 5) I know that the barrel will heat up and the group will widen. Same to what others have said. Make sure the ammo is same lot. I have had a very wide variance (200± fps) with different lots. Find what your gun likes and buy as much as you can from the same lot.

 

[Tmac]

Below is a nice summary article. If you want to take a deeper dive look into the your groups are too small clips at the end.

For example today I shot 5 different loads in a 270Win I know to be an accurate rifle. They were 3 shot groups. Best 3 loads were approx. 1/4”, 1/3” and 3/4”. I know 3 shot groups will about double if I shoot 10 shot groups. So the 1/4” load is really likely to be around 1/2” for 10 shots.

I am selecting a load for an elk hunt my brother has where it is likely he may need to shoot across a 500 yard canyon, so am looking for extreme accuracy. For regular hunting to 350 yards or so, 1” or 1moa is plenty for me.

For accurate data, sample size matters.

How many shots do you need to determine the accuracy of your rifle?

blog.hornady.com

 

[2-Stix]

Anyone can shoot a 1/2" 3 shot group. Take a 20 shot sample size and that will give you your guns true MOA...30 is recommend. Horandy has some great videos on this and there on this form somewhere.

 

[ElDiablito]

Watch this:

 

[2-Stix]

The real mindfawk is when you realize that most everything you have killed could have been killed with a rifle that shot 4moa....

I have killed one animal off a bipod, never a rear bag. Rest off a pack or lean against a tree a few times. But 90% has been a off hand shot. Unless a guy is shooting long range, 1moa is overrated IMO

It all comes down to where you hunt, how you hunt and your gear you hunt with. I am set up for 500 yards, never shot past 225 yet to take a buck.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I dial for fun but rarely kill past 200 even though I have the chance to do so fairly often

With the exception of a few head shots, i cant think of anything that wouldnt have died if I had had an open sighted 30-30 with me.

Accuracy is neat. But who gives a shit what you are getting from a bench or a bipod/bag.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Accuracy is neat. But who gives a shit what you are getting from a bench or a bipod/bag.

I give a huge shit, my rifle wears a bipod 24/7 365 and I've learned to improvise a rear "bag" out of gear that goes everywhere with me. Some of my shots are longer out of necessity due to terrain and off hand isn't going to cut it.

 

[WeiserBucks]

And what MOA are you shooting in the field?

Typically 1-1.5 MOA in good conditions, worse in poorer conditions.

 

[DiabeticKripple]

i dont shoot offhand so that point is irrelevant to me.

its always either off shooting sticks, a pack or even a tree limb.

to me a true sub-moa gun AND shooter is one that can consistently shoot under MOA with 5 shots. If you can go to the range and shoot 5 spots on a target with 5 shot groups and be under MOA thats pretty dang good.

 

[Antares]

Accuracy is neat. But who gives a shit what you are getting from a bench or a bipod/bag.

The East Coast has joined the chat.

 

[2-Stix]

I dial for fun but rarely kill past 200 even though I have the chance to do so fairly often

With the exception of a few head shots, i cant think of anything that wouldnt have died if I had had an open sighted 30-30 with me.

Accuracy is neat. But who gives a shit what you are getting from a bench or a bipod/bag.

A 30-30 is a 100 yard cartridge for deer and not enough energy for elk past 50 yards.

 

[Steve300xcw]

The East Coast has joined the chat.

wrong coast bud

A 30-30 is a 100 yard cartridge for deer and not enough energy for elk past 50 yards.

Hell of a statement. Lotta elk out there would disagree.

 

[2-Stix]

For elk typical rule of thumb is 1,500# of energy and 2,000 fps for the bullet to open...am I missing something?

 

[Antares]

wrong coast bud

Well that’s awkward for everyone, sorry.

 

[WeiserBucks]

For elk typical rule of thumb is 1,500# of energy and 2,000 fps for the bullet to open...am I missing something?

Sort of, energy as a factor in killing is very debatable and every type of bullet has a different velocity range that they will reliably expand.

1500 ft lbs and 2000 fps is simply standard issue gun magazine writers numbers since gun magazines were introduced, plenty has changed since then.

 

[2-Stix]

Sort of, energy as a factor in killing is very debatable and every type of bullet has a different velocity range that they will reliably expand.

1500 ft lbs and 2000 fps is simply standard issue gun magazine writers numbers since gun magazines were introduced, plenty has changed since then.

Most bullets dont open below 1,800 fps to properly work. Thats a 30-30 at 50 yards.