Kifaru or seek outside shelters for young family

[Qfrog]

This is not really a hunting question as much as an ultralight backcountry camping question. We recently had a baby boy and it has changed everything. My wife and I would normally do multiple back country trips in the mountains together. Now she is worried about the baby being too cold.
I'm thinking that a floorless shelter with a stove might be the answer. I was looking at a Sawtooth or the Cimmaron. I have never seen either in person and have no idea where to even start on stoves.
The catch is that I will be carrying everything on my back since she will be hauling the boy up the mountain. I'm thinking a EE quilt for two and new ultra light thermarest pads will do for bedding but I have no idea about the shelter. Any help or advice would be much appreciated guys and gals.

 

[Mike7]

Having been through that stage with little ones long ago, if not car camping, I would just focus on good clothing/headgear for the little one and a system where the child can sleep with one of you guys to help maintain body heat. Light weight stoves don't burn for long, so are not good for keeping a shelter warm all night. The tarp type/single walled shelters that are suported by trekking poles (pyramids, etc) can drop some weight for you, even if you end up using a nest...so maybe that will makeup some for the weight of packing the kiddo on you or your wife's back.

 

[Qfrog]

Yep I figured. It's the feeding and diaper changes in the middle of the night that has her worried. I'm up at least 2-3 times a night anyway so I could stoke the fire. Is there a stove that is light and will stay burning for 3-4 hrs?

 

[LandYacht]

I was in your exact situation, have 4 kids age 7 down to 3 months. I went with a SO LBO for modularity. It allows me to go with two bases and a tarp form maximum size with the whole family, or shrink down to a palace for me with a base and vestibule. My favorite setup is base and tarp for just two though.

I don't have a stove, summer back packing and fall about trips aren't cold enough even when doing diaper changes.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Yep I figured. It's the feeding and diaper changes in the middle of the night that has her worried. I'm up at least 2-3 times a night anyway so I could stoke the fire. Is there a stove that is light and will stay burning for 3-4 hrs?

It's all relative but I don't think you're going to find a stove that's super light weight and yet large enough to hold enough wood to stay burning for 3 to 4 hours. It's been my experience that with the smaller light weight stoves, you have to feed and or stoke them about every 15 to 30 minutes.

 

[Beastmode]

We started out with our kid with a floored shelter. Mainly for easing the wife mind. Have you discussed a floor less shelter with your wife? I would look at a 3-4 person tent. We used a copepod spur ul4. That way you don't have a o worry about a little one eating everything in the floor less tent.

 

[Mad Mountain Mike]

Actually if you take tin foil and use it to choke off any air leaks in your stove and cut your logs 3 to 4" in diameter and the full length of your stove you can get a 3 to 4 hour burn. The stove won't be throwing a lot of heat but at least you won't have to light it in the morning. When you wake up just add wood, open up the vents and let her buck. My stove happens to be a Seek Outside medium titanium stove but I'm sure it could be achieved with any back packing stove.
One thing I'd add is that these thin titanium stoves when throwing any kind of heat are red hot and not overly stable. You'd have to be extremely cautious with young children in the shelter.

 

[Qfrog]

Thanks for all the advice everybody. I like the modularity of LBO but how is it for riding out storms? Seems to be more square (box shaped) than the sawtooth or Cimmaron. Still it is a great design and can be used as an ultralight set up for 1-2 man hunting as well. Yes a titanium stove might be just the ticket for winter camping and once the kids gets old enough and walking around we probably won't need to be running a stove through the night anymore since he will be sleeping through the night (hopefully). How much does your titanium stove weigh?

 

[SHTF]

As a Cimmeron owner I think it would be a great shelter if your determined to do this. Id also add in a nest to keep the kid bug free if you live and hike in Mosquito area. Ive got the same medium box stove as Mad Mike does Ive tried hard to get it to burn long periods but the best I get out of it while keeping the Tipi still relatively warm is maybe an hour before I throw more wood in. But that could also be the difference in our fuel source. Mike 7 makes a good point about clothing him appropriately for the conditions. As was reading through this I thought about a micro climate setup you could achieve by putting a smaller baby shelter inside the tipi and some sort of battery powered heating pad to lay him on to help him stay warm through the night. Not sure what they make for this but I would bet you can keep him warm by doing this without to much extra weight. Nothing more important for not only your son but also your sanity to keep him warm through the night or you wont get much sleep if the little guy is unhappy =)

 

[Justin Crossley]

I think the Sawtooth would work great for what you're describing.

 

[DaveC]

Unless your kid is small for their age I think youll be surprised at how warm kids are. Get a good sleeping and youll be fine. Diaper changes demand plenty of shoulder room, and IMO the LBO is only just big enough for 2 adults plus infant.

 

[Flyrod]

If you use disposable diapers….. they won't burn. Your pack out will be heavier than going in.
I had grand plans of hiking back in….. finally just said F it and bought a slide in camper for the truck and we day trip out from there.
Also gave the wife peace of mind of warm dry safe shelter, and we could be mobile in minutes.

 

[Qfrog]

We are using cotton so the weight will definitely increase and that's a sloppy pack out. Yep I got an old RV that we have been using but it just not the same. I'm just wanting some real deal camping like we used to do and trying to strengthen my case to present to the boss. I just picked up a Wiggys large wide bag for her and the kid to sleep in for the RV. Sounds like I might just need to wait till the weather warms and he is a little bit older. It's actually raining pretty heavy in Nor Cal right now with no end in site. We need the rain and maybe I should just be happy for the fact that she is letting my go tromping through the woods after pigs once or twice a month. Still I gotta dream and a 4 man Copper Spur, lil bug out, Cimarron, or sawtooth are all great choices. Sounds like I got multiple options to present to her. Thanks everybody!

 

[DaveC]

Car camping is an oxymoron.

When backpacking diapers can be dried in the sun which makes them a lot lighter. Disposables dried this way do burn in a fire but it takes a lot to torch them completely, and it's not very efficient and the smoke is nasty.

 

[jasdtaylor]

I have the seek outside LBO with 3-piece vestibule and used it on an antelope hunt here in Oregon last year. I like the lightweight of it and it held up to some very strong winds and torrential downpour lightning storms. Only thing I didn't like was mosquitos found their way in and I woke up with a swollen face from all of the bites.

 

[larryschwartz]

If you want to keep a backpacking wood stove burning for a long time you need the following:

~ A stove that is well sealed so that you don't loose air through gaps in the stove body
~ A stove that drafts well and has the ability to dampen it down
~ Hardwood to burn like oak or maple rather than softwood like pine or cherry...the fuel you burn is a key factor in how long the fire will last
~ Like mentioned above, cut your wood in wide diameter pieces the length of your stove so you can effectively "bank" the fire

Larry

 

[Qfrog]

Plenty of manzanita and madrone wood where I camp. Burns forever. So what stove meets all the requirements you listed?

 

[Fire_9]

The stove from Hill people gear is supposed to have a pretty good burn time. Haven't burned one myself so I can't verify

 

[johnnylaw]

this past season was my first experience using a kifaru 6 man with a medium stove. I have read tons of posts on here about having to stoke the stove ever 15-30 minutes. I found the hardest seasoned wood near my campsite and used my Wyoming saw to cut it into lengths that would fit in the stove. I had an axe so I split anything that would not fit in the opening of the stove. once the fire got hot, I loaded her up with as much as I could fit in there, closed the dampers and got 3 hours at least. turned in about 9, stoked round 12-1, and again about 4 or 5. didnt have a single issue and absolutely love the setup. I hauled that whole setup 5 miles deep and will do it again!
good luck
john

 

[Beastmode]

We are using cotton so the weight will definitely increase and that's a sloppy pack out. Yep I got an old RV that we have been using but it just not the same. I'm just wanting some real deal camping like we used to do and trying to strengthen my case to present to the boss. I just picked up a Wiggys large wide bag for her and the kid to sleep in for the RV. Sounds like I might just need to wait till the weather warms and he is a little bit older. It's actually raining pretty heavy in Nor Cal right now with no end in site. We need the rain and maybe I should just be happy for the fact that she is letting my go tromping through the woods after pigs once or twice a month. Still I gotta dream and a 4 man Copper Spur, lil bug out, Cimarron, or sawtooth are all great choices. Sounds like I got multiple options to present to her. Thanks everybody!

Where in NorCal are you? I have a seek outside 8 man tipi and a copper spur ul4 for my multi person shelters if you want to check them out. I am in Shasta county.