Montana preference points expiration

[fatlander]

So does this mean the max points you can now accumulate is 3? Or rather, 3+1 bonus point?

(a) purchase only one preference point per license year except a nonresident hunting with an outfitter
licensed pursuant to Title 37, chapter 47, part 3, and providing the documentation required in subsection (8), may purchase two preference points per license year. No applicant may accumulate more than three preference points total.; and

Max points will be a moving target. The only thing that ever made max preference points 3 was the previous language about the time you had to apply relative to when you started accumulating points.

Eventually point creep will push it out past 3.


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I was actually wrong about this.

The new regs state that max points is 3.

That’ll last a few years until there is more than 12,750 applicant with max points every year. Then the outfitters and rich landowners will swing their weight again to move the ball.


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[NDGuy]

There’s an argument to stay at 0 points and roll the dice. As I am sure many of you know, 0 points was better than 1 point in 2021. That trend may change, but you won’t be stuck sending out flaming Benjamin’s for Montana to throw in the general fund.ee

That will likely change this year with PP doubling price

 

[fatlander]

That will likely change this year with PP doubling price

That’s all fine and well until you take into account that ~13k people didn’t draw with one point last year. Those folks will have 2 points this year. Furthermore there will be a size able number of people that didn’t apply last year that will have two or three this year.

There’s only 12,750 licenses that go to the highest preference.

See the problem yet?

1 point is going to be no man’s land.


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[NDGuy]

That’s all fine and well until you take into account that ~13k people didn’t draw with one point last year. Those folks will have 2 points this year. Furthermore there will be a size able number of people that didn’t apply last year that will have two or three this year.

There’s only 12,750 licenses that go to the highest preference.

See the problem yet?

1 point is going to be no man’s land.

Good info, 0 point app it is for me then lol

 

[tntrker]

I purchased a point in 20 & 21, without applying, with plans to apply for elk hunt this year. Currently have those 2 points, with option to purchase another point when applying and/or use the outfitter point as well if that happened. Can't find any details about the outfitter point just yet, but I haven't asked them yet either, was waiting to read 1st..

 

[fatlander]

I purchased a point in 20 & 21, without applying, with plans to apply for elk hunt this year. Currently have those 2 points, with option to purchase another point when applying and/or use the outfitter point as well if that happened. Can't find any details about the outfitter point just yet, but I haven't asked them yet either, was waiting to read 1st..

2022 regs:

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/regulations/2022/2022-dea-regulations-final-for-web.pdf

Page 17, max points is 3. The outfitter point is moot in your situation.


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[tntrker]

2022 regs:

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/regulations/2022/2022-dea-regulations-final-for-web.pdf

Page 15, max points is 3. The outfitter point is moot in your situation.


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Page 17 was what I was looking for. BUT, does the outfitter point go into a seperate "pool" or given any advantage in drawing? I thought I read that in the BILL but not the final say..

 

[fatlander]

Page 17 was what I was looking for. BUT, does the outfitter point go into a seperate "pool" or given any advantage in drawing? I thought I read that in the BILL but not the final say..

The reg says you can purchase an additional preference point if you have a contract.

But it says 3 is max.

It’s Montana call the FWP and talk to three different people, and you will get three different answers.

My humble guess is they’ll probably allow it and call it a software error. Plenty of times in the past their systems have allowed the purchase of multiple preference points in 1 year.


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[Lawnboi]

What a kick in the ******* nuts.

Got a point last year on unsuccessful draw. Can’t hunt this year, baby coming. So I’m going to forfeit my point.

Want to hunt next year so I guess I lol buy a point this fall.

What a money suck.

 

[fatlander]

What a kick in the ******* nuts.

Got a point last year on unsuccessful draw. Can’t hunt this year, baby coming. So I’m going to forfeit my point.

Want to hunt next year so I guess I lol buy a point this fall.

What a money suck.

Were you awarded the point after being unsuccessful, or did you buy a point at the application?

If I remember correctly, the old reg used to read “preference will be given to applicants that were previously unsuccessful… preference points can also be purchased…”

The new reg doesn’t say anything about that. Wonder how that’s going to go moving forward. You basically have to decide to be at the mercy of being random or eating the application fee on the year you know you won’t draw but had to apply anyway to not lose your points.


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[jek5224]

That’s all fine and well until you take into account that ~13k people didn’t draw with one point last year. Those folks will have 2 points this year. Furthermore there will be a size able number of people that didn’t apply last year that will have two or three this year.

There’s only 12,750 licenses that go to the highest preference.

See the problem yet?

1 point is going to be no man’s land.


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It will probably be tough to draw even with two points this year.

 

[Lawnboi]

Were you awarded the point after being unsuccessful, or did you buy a point at the application?

If I remember correctly, the old reg used to read “preference will be given to applicants that were previously unsuccessful… preference points can also be purchased…”

The new reg doesn’t say anything about that. Wonder how that’s going to go moving forward. You basically have to decide to be at the mercy of being random or eating the application fee on the year you know you won’t draw but had to apply anyway to not lose your points.


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I purchased the point at the time of application. This is the biggest money suck and kick in the balls for a diy hunter. What a crock. Life gets in the way? Too effing bad you lose your spot in line. And next time pay another $100 to pass go.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I purchased the point at the time of application. This is the biggest money suck and kick in the balls for a diy hunter. What a crock. Life gets in the way? Too effing bad you lose your spot in line. And next time pay another $100 to pass go.

It may be expensive but its better then thousands of people being able to buy points for years and years. And point creep getting worse and worse then the unit isn't even any good anymore.

 

[Lawnboi]

It may be expensive but its better then thousands of people being able to buy points for years and years. And point creep getting worse and worse then the unit isn't even any good anymore.

True, those guys chasing a lot or max points are not hunting the same units I am though.

But yea it’s more of a lottery system this way. Now your ticket cost you an extra 100 bucks though.

I do like hunting Montana though.

They should enact a coyote/wolf/varmint point system. Carcass for a point. Then I’d get a tag every year.

 

[fatlander]

It may be expensive but its better then thousands of people being able to buy points for years and years. And point creep getting worse and worse then the unit isn't even any good anymore.

Point creep is going to happen. There’s no stopping it. This is evident by the fact that outfitters have managed to slide in that extra point. What’s going to happen when that’s not good enough? They’ll move the goal post again.

Straight random is the only way that’s actually fair. With all the buzz around “environmental justice and equity” you would think that’s where we’re headed.

It’s not fair that others started accruing points before me and can afford outfitters. They’re privileged and I’m not.


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[BRTreedogs]

Point creep is going to happen. There’s no stopping it. This is evident by the fact that outfitters have managed to slide in that extra point. What’s going to happen when that’s not good enough? They’ll move the goal post again.

Straight random is the only way that’s actually fair. With all the buzz around “environmental justice and equity” you would think that’s where we’re headed.

It’s not fair that others started accruing points before me and can afford outfitters. They’re privileged and I’m not.


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Well washing points is a good start.
2-3 points isn't jack man. I have 15 for deer in my home state and there essentially worthless.
Wife has 15 for deer and elk. It still be years if ever to catch a good unit.
If there rotating people out every 3 years that's way better imo.

 

[Steve O]

It may be expensive but its better then thousands of people being able to buy points for years and years. And point creep getting worse and worse then the unit isn't even any good anymore.

Point creep my foot. They get their money and I get to PLAN my vacation and work it in my schedule by buying points. I routinely use way more points than a unit calls for because that hunt will fit in my schedule. All it does is make it hard for a regular guy to plan. That’s ok, the outfitters and ranchers can plan. That’s all that matters.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Point creep my foot. They get their money and I get to PLAN my vacation and work it in my schedule by buying points. I routinely use way more points than a unit calls for because that hunt will fit in my schedule. All it does is make it hard for a regular guy to plan. That’s ok, the outfitters and ranchers can plan. That’s all that matters.

And what happens when there are more people at max then tags for multiple years and it keeps creeping and you can't plan anything because you never get the tag?
Not sure you've experienced real point creep.

 

[NDGuy]

That’s ok, the outfitters and ranchers can plan. That’s all that matters.

100% this

 

[fatlander]

Well washing points is a good start.
2-3 points isn't jack man. I have 15 for deer in my home state and there essentially worthless.
Wife has 15 for deer and elk. It still be years if ever to catch a good unit.
If there rotating people out every 3 years that's way better imo.

I said most of that tongue in cheek fwiw.

The problem is they won’t be cycling people every 3 years.

Look at the draw odds over the last 4 years.

You could buy this tag left over 5 years ago. This year, 2 points won’t draw it 100%. The outfitters and rich landowners have moved the goal post a bit to fit their needs. When their clients aren’t drawing at max points, they’ll move the goal post again.

We’re talking about general units here. Not limited entry stuff.


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