Nock Right Paper Tear

[Fins_N_Tines]

I find it hard to believe that those arrows are stiff in that setup.

I think it just needs cams shimmed over. I can go way stuff in my vxr without issues. I mean he posted pictures of his first 3 shots, this ain't something that he can't get figured out, he is just starting.

Yeah in my case it seems to stiff as my old arrows shoot bullets holes. Got the new Day Six arrows 300 spine cut down to 27” from throat of nock to end of carbon. 28” draw, 71 lbs. 125 point weight with the 50gr components. Getting a bad right rear only way to get rid of it is move rear way far left or move my cams far right, but either way my arrow end up visibly pointing left when nock at static. So basically my arrows really isn’t in the power stroke path. Definite lesson learned when going to a new arrow to not cut down before shooting.

 

[Kularrow]

My arrow is 460 grains .204 GT Kinetic Kaos 300 spine cut down to 28 with 100 grain FP. My draw is 29, when I’m at full draw my arrow doesn’t have a ton of room infront of the rest. I’d prefer not to recut these arrows if possible. My Hamskea has micro adjust and I’m open to shimming my cams but I don’t want to keep cutting relatively stiff arrows already.

 

[5MilesBack]

I don’t want to keep cutting relatively stiff arrows already.

Why would you keep cutting already stiff arrows?

 

[Kularrow]

Why would you keep cutting already stiff arrows?

Reference video posted earlier in the thread.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

My arrow is 460 grains .204 GT Kinetic Kaos 300 spine cut down to 28 with 100 grain FP. My draw is 29, when I’m at full draw my arrow doesn’t have a ton of room infront of the rest. I’d prefer not to recut these arrows if possible. My Hamskea has micro adjust and I’m open to shimming my cams but I don’t want to keep cutting relatively stiff arrows already.

you definitely don’t want to cut down your already cut arrow as it will just get stiffer. What @Zac was referring to is taking a uncut arrow and slowly cut down until it was shooting bullets holes. Now if you are in my shoes and cut all 12 arrows then your screwed like me. However I do feel you are not really over spined and a shim of cams slightly right would be money. Your tear in the pic wasn’t to bad should come out easy.

 

[5MilesBack]

Reference video posted earlier in the thread.

I didn't watch the video, but they're probably talking about getting your spine right by shooting your arrows full length, and then cutting them down until they shoot bullet holes. If you're too stiff, then you're already past that point, and the only way to weaken your spine is to keep adding point weight or increase your draw weight.

Regardless, you should be able to get that bow tuned with the other methods mentioned while keeping your arrows the same.

 

[CB4]

I wouldn't change top hats if changing the string. Or you can but don't go off of the previous tune. With the vertix and vxr I have seen the tune change with a string/cable change. I suspect the v3 will as well.


Only thing I can figure is the donut on the floating yoke is hard to get back exactly the same.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I could see that having effect on it for sure. With not having a press at home I figured I would have them swap them around since they would have a cams off.

 

[Billy Goat]

Yeah in my case it seems to stiff as my old arrows shoot bullets holes. Got the new Day Six arrows 300 spine cut down to 27” from throat of nock to end of carbon. 28” draw, 71 lbs. 125 point weight with the 50gr components. Getting a bad right rear only way to get rid of it is move rear way far left or move my cams far right, but either way my arrow end up visibly pointing left when nock at static. So basically my arrows really isn’t in the power stroke path. Definite lesson learned when going to a new arrow to not cut down before shooting.

So your arrows are what 26 3/4 ctc and then add in a component system that runs down the shaft another 1.5"? So you are probably dealing with about 25" of available carbon to flex. I can believe that would be stiff, especially on 28" draw, but I'd still bet I could get a broadhead to fly out of it.

Are you certain it's not your grip causing the issues? Or face pressure?

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

So your arrows are what 26 3/4 ctc and then add in a component system that runs down the shaft another 1.5"? So you are probably dealing with about 25" of available carbon to flex. I can believe that would be stiff, especially on 28" draw, but I'd still bet I could get a broadhead to fly out of it.

Are you certain it's not your grip causing the issues? Or face pressure?

i would look at grip or face pressure if my old arrow didn’t fly straight. I agree it’s the reason I went with 300 and cut them where I did because they shouldn’t be over spinned but the severe right tear is a head scratcher.

 

[Billy Goat]

i would look at grip or face pressure if my old arrow didn’t fly straight. I agree it’s the reason I went with 300 and cut them where I did because they shouldn’t be over spinned but the severe right tear is a head scratcher.

Do your old arrows still fly straight? I assume you mean you are still shooting them, just clarifying.

I have, and have seen others make small changes after not shooting for a period. Like I said tho, I'm not familiar with the day six stuff but think they use a long insert system which further stiffens the arrow.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Do your old arrows still fly straight? I assume you mean you are still shooting them, just clarifying.

I have, and have seen others make small changes after not shooting for a period. Like I said tho, I'm not familiar with the day six stuff but think they use a long insert system which further stiffens the arrow.

Yes my old Victory RIP 300 shoot bullet holes. They are 10gr heavier up front and 1.5" longer. Now with that said I haven't shot the old arrows in a couple months, so I am going to shoot both day six and my old arrow side by side through paper to see results as I agree maybe I had face pressure on previous shots through paper. I still don't think so, but I'm willing to check. I'm pretty anal about my grip, anchor and overall shot sequence. However, I'm not exempt from a slight form change.

Thanks for help Billy and I love that we all try to help each other out on this forum.

 

[Zac]

you definitely don’t want to cut down your already cut arrow as it will just get stiffer. What @Zac was referring to is taking a uncut arrow and slowly cut down until it was shooting bullets holes. Now if you are in my shoes and cut all 12 arrows then your screwed like me. However I do feel you are not really over spined and a shim of cams slightly right would be money. Your tear in the pic wasn’t to bad should come out easy.

Yes thanks for correcting me, I think I was falling asleep as I was replying to this.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Yes thanks for correcting me, I think I was falling asleep as I was replying to this.

No problem!

hey @Zac when you messed around the Day Six did you notice they seemed stiffer than other arrows with same spine?

 

[Zac]

No problem!

hey @Zac when you messed around the Day Six did you notice they seemed stiffer than other arrows with same spine?

Hard to say, originally I thought so but I didn't know anything about archery then. I think it's a very low modulus carbon which should make it react weak. However the walls are super thick which would then make it act more stiff. Only shaft I believe acts stiffer is Victory Vaps.

 

[dkime]

Hard to say, originally I thought so but I didn't know anything about archery then. I think it's a very low modulus carbon which should make it react weak. However the walls are super thick which would then make it act more stiff. Only shaft I believe acts stiffer is Victory Vaps.

How does a low modulus carbon make an arrow act weaker when it has a static spine applied to it? This is like saying a metal tape measure has shorter inches than a plastic tape measure.

To the OP, shim your bow and move on. The fact is that paper tears tell us more about the bow to archer interface than the do anything with the actual spine reaction. If people still think that paper tears are indicative of spine in tuning a compound all you need to do is ask them to please explain what specifically is causing the tear and how something being weak and flexing more or less would cause said tear. Compounds aren't trad bows and are not going to react like trad bows because the arrow doesnt have wrap around the shelf.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

How does a low modulus carbon make an arrow act weaker when it has a static spine applied to it? This is like saying a metal tape measure has shorter inches than a plastic tape measure.

To the OP, shim your bow and move on. The fact is that paper tears tell us more about the bow to archer interface than the do anything with the actual spine reaction. If people still think that paper tears are indicative of spine in tuning a compound all you need to do is ask them to please explain what specifically is causing the tear and how something being weak and flexing more or less would cause said tear. Compounds aren't trad bows and are not going to react like trad bows because the arrow doesnt have wrap around the shelf.

Yes paper tear does tell us about bow to archer, but it most certainly tells us if an arrow doesn't match the bow correctly. I can get and under or over spinned arrow to shoot bullets holes through paper, but the arrow may be pointed hard left/right, thus not in line with the power stroke of the bow. At distance and under or over spinned bow will not shoot very good groups. most whitetail guys won't notice a big difference as out to 30 yards probably not a huge deal. But if you are shooting out to 60 yds most likely your groups will suck if arrow isn't correctly spinned to the bow.

 

[dkime]

Yes paper tear does tell us about bow to archer, but it most certainly tells us if an arrow doesn't match the bow correctly. I can get and under or over spinned arrow to shoot bullets holes through paper, but the arrow may be pointed hard left/right, thus not in line with the power stroke of the bow. At distance and under or over spinned bow will not shoot very good groups. most whitetail guys won't notice a big difference as out to 30 yards probably not a huge deal. But if you are shooting out to 60 yds most likely your groups will suck if arrow isn't correctly spinned to the bow.

How?

I cant tell if youre attempting to prove my point correct; or disprove it?

 

[4ester]

With a drop away rest there is no reason you shouldn’t get those arrows to shoot bullet holes with a stiff arrow. You ever notice Gold Tip doesn’t list spine on their target arrows (it’s like a 150). According to Tim G. there is no such thing as too stiff for someone with good form.

You have something else going on. Fletching contact, cam misalignment? Is your center shot set at spec?

Could be bad grip, face pressure..... list goes on and on.

Let someone else (someone with good experience) shoot your bow and see if they can shoot a bullet hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DOMMA]

You mean bump rest left? His tear is nock right.

yep, need to bump the rest to left. The tear is not horrible. I would look at bumping the rest left, and check for any nock pinch.

You have to make sure your release is clean and your bow hand is set properly on the bow.

Also, insure the DL is correct, it is easy to get right/left tears if the draw length is to long/short.

If you have all of these little things figured out and still have a tear, you probably have to shim the CAMS.

 

[Zac]

How does a low modulus carbon make an arrow act weaker when it has a static spine applied to it? This is like saying a metal tape measure has shorter inches than a plastic tape measure.

To the OP, shim your bow and move on. The fact is that paper tears tell us more about the bow to archer interface than the do anything with the actual spine reaction. If people still think that paper tears are indicative of spine in tuning a compound all you need to do is ask them to please explain what specifically is causing the tear and how something being weak and flexing more or less would cause said tear. Compounds aren't trad bows and are not going to react like trad bows because the arrow doesnt have wrap around the shelf.

I'm not exactly sure of the physics behind it. This was something I discussed with Brent from Valkyrie regarding static spine vs dynamic spine. I believe he tends to think high modulus carbon reacts dynamically stiffer than low modulus.