Paper Tuning - Has me puzzled…

[RockinRam96]

I have been bow hunting for 15+ years and have only had 2 bows, never paper tuned. Bought a new Hoyt Ventum 30 for this up coming season. Been shooting it for about 3 months now and decided to try paper tuning.

Looked down my bow before I started and everything looked pretty square so I didn’t think it was going to take much work. Boy was I wrong.

I shot through paper and have pretty much run out of adjustment. Moved my rest all the way to the right before it started hitting the riser and it still isn’t a perfect bullet hole. Getting about a 1/2” to a 3/4” tear to the left.

Decided to shoot at a target and check how they were grouping. Had a bare shaft FMJ that I shot as well. At 20 and 30 yards I was stacking 3 fletched 6.5 mm carbons, a fletched Axis and a bare shaft FMJ.

All this said and everything is completely out of square. I feel like I am completely missing something here.

Set up is:
Hoyt Ventum 30 with 70 lb limbs maxed out
Fletched Easton 6.5 carbons that weigh 418 grains
Fletched Easton Axis that weighs 397 grains
Bare Shaft FMJ that weighs 420 grains

Just a little bit puzzled with the way it is paper tuning. I feel it shouldn’t be that far to the right with the rest and still need more. It is completely out of square, arrow to bow. But it seems to shoot great.

Thanks in advance.


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[bsnedeker]

I think you need to shim your cams.

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[summs]

If your rest is out of adjustments, it’s time to look at the cams. Hoyt used to be a yoke system, twist a cable and be done, but I believe the new bows also need a shim to move cams now too.

I’m in the same boat with a Mathews traverse. Shoots great, even paper tunes bullet holes as well. But bare shafts at 10 and 20 yards are all over the place.
I have to order a top hat (shim kit) and move my cams left by a hair

 

[doncarpenter]

I have been bow hunting for 15+ years and have only had 2 bows, never paper tuned. Bought a new Hoyt Ventum 30 for this up coming season. Been shooting it for about 3 months now and decided to try paper tuning.

Looked down my bow before I started and everything looked pretty square so I didn’t think it was going to take much work. Boy was I wrong.

I shot through paper and have pretty much run out of adjustment. Moved my rest all the way to the right before it started hitting the riser and it still isn’t a perfect bullet hole. Getting about a 1/2” to a 3/4” tear to the left.

Decided to shoot at a target and check how they were grouping. Had a bare shaft FMJ that I shot as well. At 20 and 30 yards I was stacking 3 fletched 6.5 mm carbons, a fletched Axis and a bare shaft FMJ.

All this said and everything is completely out of square. I feel like I am completely missing something here.

Set up is:
Hoyt Ventum 30 with 70 lb limbs maxed out
Fletched Easton 6.5 carbons that weigh 418 grains
Fletched Easton Axis that weighs 397 grains
Bare Shaft FMJ that weighs 420 grains

Just a little bit puzzled with the way it is paper tuning. I feel it shouldn’t be that far to the right with the rest and still need more. It is completely out of square, arrow to bow. But it seems to shoot great.

Thanks in advance.


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Do you have access to a press? I would move the rest back to center and then swap the shims. You can tell from the last pic the thick shim is on the left, and thin on the right. Swap those shims on top and bottom.

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[RockinRam96]

I think you need to shim your cams.

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Kinda what I was thinking from watching some videos. Kinda disappointed in the shop I went to. Was pretty happy with them to this point…


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[ia bhtr]

Looks to me like a left tear , I have always moved my rest to the right to eliminate a left tear or shim cams to the left , personally I would go back to 13/16ths and if a minor rest adjustment didnt fix it ( the most I would go with the rest is 3/4 to 7/8 ) , then go to your shop and as others have said swap shims and see how that affects your tune

on my RX5 I was getting a left tear similar to yours , put it in the press , swapped shims and cut my tear in half , back in the press , pulled the gray shims , went with black shims moving my cams as far to the left as I could , after all that , bullet hole , took some time but it worked , may want to see if your shop has the Hoyt shim kit , if not PM me , I will send you a set of black and gray shims in the different sizes , that should fix you up perfect >>====>

 

[RockinRam96]

Do you have access to a press? I would move the rest back to center and then swap the shims. You can tell from the last pic the thick shim is on the left, and thin on the right. Swap those shims on top and bottom.

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I do not have a press of my own. But I could always go back to the shop I bought the bow at.


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[RockinRam96]

Looks to me like a left tear , I have always moved my rest to the right to eliminate a left tear or shim cams to the left , personally I would go back to 13/16ths and if a minor rest adjustment didnt fix it , then go to your shop and as others have said swap shims and see how that affects your tune

on my RX5 I was getting a left tear similar to yours , put it in the press , swapped shims and cut my tear in half , back in the press , pulled the gray shims , went with black shims moving my cams as far to the left as I could , after all that , bullet hole , took some time but it worked , may want to see if your shop has the Hoyt shim kit , if not PM me , I will send you a set of black and gray shims in the different sizes , that should fix you up perfect >>====>

Thanks foe the advice. I will keep you posted. Hoping I can make the shop Friday afternoon to get it fixed up the correct way.

Really wish I had a press of my own. I love tinkering. And I kind of figured this issue was a cam shim issue. Would love to be able to put it on my own press and get it shooting right.


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[540-Virginian]

You said you never paper tuned in the past, but now you are paper tuning a new bow that can hit bullseye and group bareshafts regardless? If so, would forget about paper tuning as it doesn't matter just a ball park to get you to closer when BH tuning. Im putting money on form - not that its bad, just that you may get tears even with your previous bows just on how you shoot. I got right tears all day but shot fine. Had my form adjusted and bullet holes all day now. Just my two cents. I chased paper for months and it was a waste of time.

 

[RockinRam96]

You said you never paper tuned in the past, but now you are paper tuning a new bow that can hit bullseye and group bareshafts regardless? If so, would forget about paper tuning as it doesn't matter just a ball park to get you to closer when BH tuning. Im putting money on form - not that its bad, just that you may get tears even with your previous bows just on how you shoot. I got right tears all day but shot fine. Had my form adjusted and bullet holes all day now. Just my two cents. I chased paper for months and it was a waste of time.

I decided to paper tune because I was not shooting as well as I thought I should be. Since paper tuning I have been able to group arrows much better than I have been with the new bow.

Old bows, I was shooting “good enough.” Not was i shooting at further distances. And by further distances I mean 60 yards. I know it’s not much for some but I was only shooting 30, once in a while 40 before with old bows. Bows that are now 15-16 years old.


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[Mighty Mouse]

Shimming cams to the left should allow you to move the rest back closer to recommended centershot. Keep in mind that paper tuning is just a starting point; broadhead tuning ultimately trumps all (assuming you're tuning for hunting purposes).

You mentioned shooting multiple arrow models of (slightly) different weights. I would choose one and stick with it to eliminate possible tuning variations due to differences in dynamic spine, arrow weight, etc. They may all end up tuning the same, but I'd recommend eliminating as many variables as possible, at least for the initial tune.

 

[RockinRam96]

Shimming cams to the left should allow you to move the rest back closer to recommended centershot. Keep in mind that paper tuning is just a starting point; broadhead tuning ultimately trumps all (assuming you're tuning for hunting purposes).

You mentioned shooting multiple arrow models of (slightly) different weights. I would choose one and stick with it to eliminate possible tuning variations due to differences in dynamic spine, arrow weight, etc. They may all end up tuning the same, but I'd recommend eliminating as many variables as possible, at least for the initial tune.

I agree on shooting one arrow. I had bought a few different models thinking maybe it was the arrows. Then bought multiple weight field points hoping to find the right combo.

I shot them to more or less see if there was any variation.


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[MattB]

That is odd, but if your bare shafts are consistently hitting with your fletched arrows at 20 yards I would be inclined to confirm that at 30 yards and then not mess with it.

 

[Billy Goat]

There's no way you aren't getting fletching contact now with your centershot, might be tuned, but the correct way to do it would have been to set your centershot and shimmed the cams, that will align the stroke with the centershot. Once you have that, then you make very fine rest adjustments to get your broadheads dialed in.


I'd go back to the shop, set your rest at 13/16 or there abouts, shim your cams til you get clean paper holes. Once you get that, then do bareshafts and confirm they are still together. Make very slight rest adjustments if needed. Then shoot some broadheads to confirm everything is good.


Edited for spelling.

 

[Zac]

First of all I wouldn't bother with trying to make sure everything is aligned visually. Hoyt reccomends 13/16ths, which is going to visually look like the shaft is pointing to the left. I had the same issue as you did. I bought the shim kit from Lancaster and screwed around with different variations until I got it perfect. However to accomplish that I had to trim my 29 inch Axis arrow down to almost 27 inches and put a lighted nock and a wrap on the back. You didn't post your draw length. However I would definitely spine up and save yourself the trouble that I went through. So if you are shooting a 340 now, try a few 300s. Mine ended up tuning perfectly at 13/16 with broadheads once I put the Large black Hoyt shims to the right on both the top and bottom limb. Mine shot very well non-tuned as well. You definitely don't have to shoot a bullet hole to stack a bunch of arrows at 20 yards. However if your planning on putting something pointy on the end you will want to get this figured out.

 

[4rcgoat]

Throw the paper in the garbage where it belongs(maybe recycle?) Bare shafts will tell the whole truth,then,on to broadheads.

 

[RockinRam96]

First of all I wouldn't bother with trying to make sure everything is aligned visually. Hoyt reccomends 13/16ths, which is going to visually look like the shaft is pointing to the left. I had the same issue as you did. I bought the shim kit from Lancaster and screwed around with different variations until I got it perfect. However to accomplish that I had to trim my 29 inch Axis arrow down to almost 27 inches and put a lighted nock and a wrap on the back. You didn't post your draw length. However I would definitely spine up and save yourself the trouble that I went through. So if you are shooting a 340 now, try a few 300s. Mine ended up tuning perfectly at 13/16 with broadheads once I put the Large black Hoyt shims to the right on both the top and bottom limb. Mine shot very well non-tuned as well. You definitely don't have to shoot a bullet hole to stack a bunch of arrows at 20 yards. However if your planning on putting something pointy on the end you will want to get this figured out.

You’re right I forgot draw length. My draw length is 27”. Arrows are 26-1/4” long.

I have spines up from 400 spine that the shop sold me to 340 spine. Shooting 125 grain grain field points now. Waiting on a package from Lancaster to step up to 200 grain point weights. I know it may require additional tuning with higher point weight, but I wanted to get it right with what I have first.


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[RockinRam96]

Throw the paper in the garbage where it belongs(maybe recycle?) Bare shafts will tell the whole truth,then,on to broadheads.

I tried a fletched bs bare shaft tune…. But after I lost a couple bare shafts even at 10 yards, I figured I’d try though paper first, then check with a fletched and bare shaft into a target.


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[Billy Goat]

Looking back now, why are you shooting so many different shafts?

You have too many different things going on. A 340 axis reacts different than a 340 fmj.


You need to just be tuning off of a group of identical arrows, I'd say minimum of 6 so one or two that react differently than the others won't throw you off.


You can use the paper to nock tune to get them all reacting the same out of the bow. I don't, but it's easy to do. I do it with bareshafts at 20 yards, but paper will make it easier and it's not as sensitive to your inputs.


Putting 200 on the front of that is really going to mess with you.

 

[aron]

I would move the rest back to the left. I would set the left/right distance by placing an arrow against the riser and another arrow in your rest. With the launcher up, both arrows should run parallel to each other. This should be pretty close to 13/16" from the riser. From there, you could make small adjustments (1/32") to get the bare shafts and field points to fly the same or proper bullet holes through paper. If I'm going past 1/16" adjustment to the rest, I would then shim the cams. You should also be checking cam timing, draw weight, and draw length. This would require a trip to the bow shop or make a cheap draw board and scale.

For your setup, I would also focus on the 340 spine arrows. Shoot a few arrows before determining what adjustments need to be made.