Posession limit ?

[mfsights257]

Why is the game warden in your house, looking into your freezer?

 

[Afhunter1]

From PA........... Limit of 1 antlered deer per year, and 1 antlerless deer with each valid antlerless license or permit.

Also from Reg.....Field Possession Limit: It is unlawful on the opening day of a hunting season to 1) possess more than the daily limit; 2) after the second day possess more game than may be legally taken in three days. A field possession limit is the maximum number of legally taken wildlife of a species that a person may legally posses or transport between the place of taking and the person's permanent place of residence.

That's how a possession limit is defined in PA

We have a 6 a day / 18 in possession for squirrels for example but you can have 1000 in your freezer.

 

[Huntindog45]

Why is the game warden in your house, looking into your freezer?

well the same laws apply to search and seizure in any house. If they have a warrant or consent they will search.

 

[Huntindog45]

From PA........... Limit of 1 antlered deer per year, and 1 antlerless deer with each valid antlerless license or permit.

Also from Reg.....Field Possession Limit: It is unlawful on the opening day of a hunting season to 1) possess more than the daily limit; 2) after the second day possess more game than may be legally taken in three days. A field possession limit is the maximum number of legally taken wildlife of a species that a person may legally posses or transport between the place of taking and the person's permanent place of residence.

That's how a possession limit is defined in PA

We have a 6 a day / 18 in possession for squirrels for example but you can have 1000 in your freezer.

you are correct. PA is one of the few states that defines the possession limit to specifically limit it to what you are allowed in the field...like on an extended camping trip. once they are in the freezer at a permanent residence it does not matter.

 

[El Gavilan]

For migratory birds, ie, ducks, geese, cranes, doves, band tailed pigeons the daily take and possession limits are set by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Regs are published annually in the federal register and are codified in 50 CFR part 20. States may be more restrictive than the federal limits but not more liberal. Any birds in your possession count toward the possession limit including birds in your freezer or refrigerator. If you are storing birds belonging to another person, they need to be labeled with name, species, date and place taken.


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[Bubblehide]

El Gavilan is correct, I failed to consider that the U.S. F&W regulates migratory birds.

 

[Bubblehide]

well the same laws apply to search and seizure in any house. If they have a warrant or consent they will search.

Here you are wrong and could not be more wrong. F&W laws are Prima Facie laws. So just the act of hunting or fishing allows for search and seizure without consent. When a warden asks you if he/she can search you, your vehicle, ice chest, they are doing it either out or courtesy, or looking for a reaction. The simple reason for this is that animals can not communicate a crime has been committed, like in human on human crimes where you generally have a complainant. As such, if someone reports that say John has to many XYZ in his freezer, and the report is believable, a warden does not need a warrant to search.

 

[Huntindog45]

Here you are wrong and could not be more wrong. F&W laws are Prima Facie laws. So just the act of hunting or fishing allows for search and seizure without consent. When a warden asks you if he/she can search you, your vehicle, ice chest, they are doing it either out or courtesy, or looking for a reaction. The simple reason for this is that animals can not communicate a crime has been committed, like in human on human crimes where you generally have a complainant. As such, if someone reports that say John has to many XYZ in his freezer, and the report is believable, a warden does not need a warrant to search.

not is the house. wanna bet? your house is very much protected from that search and seizure without warrant. hunting and fishing gear in plain view in a vehicle is one thing. Not the house though. (yes i do have a background in this btw) Wardens cannot go into a house or any living quarters without consent or a warrant. That is well established law.

 

[T28w]

There was a fowl life podcast where they were discussing this. Basically they agreed all the possession limit does is keep people from being legal, specifically with ducks. They both agreed they are usually always over the possession limit once the season gets going good and until they have a big cookout.

I agreed with what they said. We r good on daily limits but I honestly don’t care about the possession limit. I don’t stack up hundreds of ducks by any means but I will have over 18 and never give it a second thought, in my freezer.

 

[KurtR]

Putting that on a public forum probably not a good move. Guy here got license taken away after posting something like that and wouldn’t you know he got a knock on the door with a warrant and a print out of his post

 

[KurtR]

The warden isn't writing how many birds you taken to help you take more birds, he's doing it to tally how many birds you've taken to track your limits.

Lets say that you take 6 ducks per day (bag limit) for three consecutive days and you've reached your possession limit in South Dakota.

The warden writes down how many ducks you've taken each day so he knows that you haven't exceeded the daily limit or the possession limit.

But then you go to another state on the fourth day and you take 6 more ducks and then come home.

If the warden checks your freezer then you're going to get a citation for exceeding the possession limit. It doesn't matter where you got those ducks, just because they came from out of state it doesn't matter, you still have more than the possession limit.

We send guys home with there possession limit here (pheasants)which could be less in the home state and when they have been checked they show the warden the license from here and they are ok. I know we get lots of people here for early goose and they can shoot 15 per day and take them back to the surrounding states. With the fed laws that could get hairy if you got a warden who wanted to stick it to you.

 

[Mike Islander]

Well, this is new. I have never heard of possession meaning anything other than during the hunt (or fishing trip) or on the way home that day or at the end of the hunt. Maybe I haven't been paying attention. But I believe most states don't have any limit on possession in your freezer at home, meaning a friend can give you all the ducks he had in his freezer without you fearing for your property or paycheck. I think this is the norm in the majority of states, not the minority.

Change my mind (if for no other reason than to reinforce your knowledge of the subject). Or not.

UPDATE: I see that this is mainly pertaining to migratory birds. Okay, you guys are a special case. Glad I don't duck hunt, yet.

 

[El Gavilan]

You can give migratory birds to your wife and kids at home, those don’t count against your possession limit once given away.if you really want to “ be legal” then label the birds you give away as that ends any question.


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[KurtR]

In South Dakota once they are processed the game in question no longer counts against your possession limit. They just removed the possession limit for fish this year

 

[Mike Islander]

From what I am reading the Federal statute doesn't differentiate between frozen birds in your cooler or frozen birds in your freezer. But few states will come to your home and inspect your freezer, like California has done for many years.

From the Merced Sun Star, about 10 years ago:
https://www.mercedsunstar.com/sports/outdoors/article3251918.html

"Limits apply to birds in your freezer, too"

Question: Near the end of this past duck season, DFG wardens visited two of my friends' homes and requested to see the contents of their freezers. My friends said that when they cooperated, and showed the contents of their freezers, they were cited for violating the Fish & Game Code for exceeding the waterfowl "in-possession limits."

Answer: Though this practice might be common, that doesn't make it legal. According Mike Carion, the chief of Northern California Enforcement, some states only count possession limits in the field; but in California the possession limit per person is two daily bag limits.

A possession limit can be donated to others who live in the household, even if they are not hunters. There is no minimum age for a person to retain a possession limit of waterfowl.

 

[Jmitch1488]

In South Dakota once they are processed the game in question no longer counts against your possession limit. They just removed the possession limit for fish this year

That is correct and same with ducks but from my understanding simply cut them up and freezing does not count as "processed" legally. I'm not sure even grinding does either. Legally I believe processing means makeing them into something. Either a meal or some sort of sausage type product. For example I have been told before when we used to hunt ND for ducks that just grinding ducks would still count as our possession limit but if we took them to a butcher shop and has sausage made that doesn't. Seems to be lots of gray area

 

[KurtR]

That is correct and same with ducks but from my understanding simply cut them up and freezing does not count as "processed" legally. I'm not sure even grinding does either. Legally I believe processing means makeing them into something. Either a meal or some sort of sausage type product. For example I have been told before when we used to hunt ND for ducks that just grinding ducks would still count as our possession limit but if we took them to a butcher shop and has sausage made that doesn't. Seems to be lots of gray area

Grinding counts as does slicing them up for jerky and such. I hunt with a retired game warden .

 

[rob86jeep]

The take away from this is the law is there as a tool for law enforcement to prosecute poachers. If you are an ethical hunter, it should never be an issue. If you feel wrong having more than the "possession" limit in your freezer and are an ethical hunter, don't do it. As stated above, it's legal to gift wild game to people so you can gift birds to your wife, kids, etc (as long as you follow the rules of gifting and feel comfortable doing so).

I look at it as being similar to having prescription pills. No cop is going to try and get a warrant/consent to search me, my home, or my vehicle looking for prescription pills that I don't have a prescription for. However, if they pull me over for breaking other laws (or suspect I'm selling them) and find I have prescription pills that I don't have a prescription for during a legal search, they can use that to further my punishment/prosecution.

 

[Rich M]

We have possession limits of fish - that's the amount you can bring home from say a weekend camping trip. Once it is processed and placed in the freezer it becomes food. The only exception I can think of is the FL Keys Lobster Mini-Season - they check every vehicle - EVERY vehicle leaving the Keys on the last day. It is a weekend season and you best not have more than the possession limit of tails, they don't have a sense of humor about it either.

I think you guys are reading way too much into it with the possession limit including what is in your freezer.

And yes - possession limits of fish, birds, deer, etc. all means the same thing. "possession limit" is what is defined, not the specific fish/game. The possession limit would also apply to the place you were hunting/fishing and not your home state.

Say You have a daily limit of 2 pheasants/ducks/whatever - you cannot possess more than 2 if it is opening day. On the second day you can possess 4. So, if the possession limit is 4, you are done for the season or until you eat your birds? What if you only eat 1, so you can only shoot 1 the following weekend???????????

Once you process the birds and place them in your home freezer, they are now food and no longer birds that you possess coming and going from hunting trips. You can still go hunting the second weekend if you so want and haven't eaten the birds from the first trip.

Now some states have season limits and when I lived in XX it was 10. They sold 10 tags for pheasant and that was it for the year. Daily limit was 2, possession limit was 4. All birds had to be tagged with these sticker thingies. I can and did go hunting in other states and bring home additional game - and had over 10 pheasants in my freezer - all without breaking the law that says in XX state you can only shoot 10 pheasants per year.

The whole inspect your cooler thing is for the game within and possession limit on your hunt and your return home. Down here I get screwed on this one. We are only allowed to keep 1 day fish limit if camping for a weekend or a week. Gotta know your game laws.

How about all the CWD regulations? You basically have to bone-out the meat but leave the nut sack attached and pressure wash the skull or skull plate on your way home. I've heard of entire deer being confiscated cause the quarters still had the bones in them. I wonder how it works with bone-in meat processing.


Last comment, it was my understanding that GWs have diff jurisdiction and could inspect your vehicle, cooler, freezer w/o a warrant or consent. Part of the whole road block game check system we used to run into every now and again. They'd run a dog thru the vehicles and would "screen" the vehicles they inspected by type and driver - grandma driving a car didn't get checked - grandma driving a pickup did. LOL! The good old days. They used to shut down the interstate on the last weekend of the hunting season about every year. Don't know if they still do that.

 

[30338]

They shut down I-70 about 3 years ago during 2nd rifle season. Had in excess of 50 state vehicles from WY, UT, and CO digging through cars, trucks, campers, etc. Not counting 2-3 helicopters. Too bad they don't work as hard at rooting out corruption in state and federal governments. I could not careless what they do as I cross the t's and dot the i's but I still find it excessive.

I think this thread brings up all kinds of questions for upland hunters as well. So I am hunting non migratory game birds in Kansas. I get my daily and possession limits of pheasants in Kansas and stop in Nebraska to hunt quail. They check me and I exceed the Nebraska limit of pheasants even though they were killed in Kansas. Do they have to prove I killed them in Nebraska or do I have to prove I am innocent? I kind of go with the innocent until proven guilty concept we were founded on.