Questions on dies

[MuleyFever]

And now I have to look up brass annealing

 

[Vandy321]

Makes sense. I look at things differently then a lot of guys because I really don’t like reloading. I look at it as something I have to do but I don’t get any real enjoyment out of it I guess.

So if I can find a quicker way of doing something with equal results I’m all in. If I see a big enough benefit for doing something Ill do it (grudgingly lol)

IME some brass work hardens so fast regardless of sizing method that annealing is more important for neck tension then what sizing method is used.




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You are correct. There are more than a few ways to skin that cat. And both ways obviously get the job done. Yes, I need to anneal more just found a guy to ship them too for 10 cents per round...that is one process I have no desire to do buy hand, and I dont shoot enough to justify the machine

 

[wind gypsy]

There was a 'should' in there and I'm curious why? If a body die and then neck bushing/mandrel is proven to produce lower runout, then why should he use a FL size die? You can still bump the shoulder back every time with a body die if desired.

Not arguing, just curious what I may be missing for my own process?

It is my recommendation because it is fewer steps for a new loader and I don't think it will functionally limit the quality of the OPs ammo. I wasn't aware that sizing the body and neck in different steps was proven to reduce runout, I thought it just allowed for more ability to adjust how you size, I.E. not size the body with every firing. To me that isn't necessary or desirable.

With a FL sizing die, set the die for minimum sizing that will allow all rounds to chamber without resistance and leave it there. To me, this gets you ammo with the same sized cases regardless of the # of firings (within reason). If minimally sizing, i don't believe you are notably hurting your brass life with this method.

 

[wind gypsy]

And now I have to look up brass annealing

Worry about that later.. you will be able to get at least 4 firings out of brass before you need to deal with it.

 

[MuleyFever]

Would I notice any real difference in the Hornady match grade die set and the Redding type s match grade set?

 

[Muley Buck]

What is your reason for not bumping every firing? Everybody has different methods, I’m not saying your doing it wrong or anything just curious.


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My reasons are the ease and rate of sizing is much better and enjoyable to me, case life and capacity is good as well. I am achieving my desired dimensions and translates well at the range and the field in accuracy. Additionally, I never had a chambering / feeding issue until 6 firings. No annealing, just neck sizing. This was done on purpose. Choosing not to "bump" the shoulder each time to see if and when I would experience any ill effects. 6 firings was when I experienced some stiffness on closing the bolt with a loaded round. Adjusted my die, bumped the shoulder back .0015, problem solved.
Also, I am using all Norma brass one lot, it has been very consistent for me. I wouldn't suggest trying this method with crappy brass (Hornady), don't ask me how I know. All brass is not created equal.

Honestly, and this is for everybody, I would like to know what is bad or not good about a specific cartridge fitting in a specific rifle extremely well on top of having great accuracy and zero issues chambering or feeding? What am I missing?

 

[ckleeves]

One thing that can really cause a new reloader to overbuy/overthink is buying and reading beyond what they need to.

What are you realistically trying to do? Guys can get way to deep into this (me included) if your loading for a factory barrel/factory rifle that’s only capable of 1 moa, then loading like your competing in benchrest isn’t going to do anything but hurt your wallet.

Bushing dies, annealing machines, mandrels, neck turning, concentricity gauges, etc simply are not going to make that much difference if the rifle or shooter isn’t capable.


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[Muley Buck]

It is my recommendation because it is fewer steps for a new loader and I don't think it will functionally limit the quality of the OPs ammo. I wasn't aware that sizing the body and neck in different steps was proven to reduce runout, I thought it just allowed for more ability to adjust how you size, I.E. not size the body with every firing. To me that isn't necessary or desirable.

With a FL sizing die, set the die for minimum sizing that will allow all rounds to chamber without resistance and leave it there. To me, this gets you ammo with the same sized cases regardless of the # of firings (within reason). If minimally sizing, i don't believe you are notably hurting your brass life with this method.

You still over work the neck in a FL size die. Pull out your expander ball and run one through, it will be sized much tighter than if one was to use a bushing. Additionally, I despise the pulling of the neck / shoulder area with the expander ball on the way out. It does and can increase runout not minimize it.

 

[Muley Buck]

One thing that can really cause a new reloader to overbuy/overthink is buying and reading beyond what they need to.

What are you realistically trying to do? Guys can get way to deep into this (me included) if your loading for a factory barrel/factory rifle that’s only capable of 1 moa, then loading like your competing in benchrest isn’t going to do anything but hurt your wallet.

Bushing dies, annealing machines, mandrels, neck turning, concentricity gauges, etc simply are not going to make that much difference if the rifle or shooter isn’t capable.


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Agreed.

 

[wind gypsy]

You still over work the neck in a FL size die. Pull out your expander ball and run one through, it will be sized much tighter than if one was to use a bushing. Additionally, I despise the pulling of the neck / shoulder area with the expander ball on the way out. It does and can increase runout not minimize it.

Standard non-bushing FL die, I agree. My bushing dies are still FL sizing dies and my non bushing FL dies are forster dies honed to avoid over working brass.

 

[Muley Buck]

Standard non-bushing FL die, I agree. My bushing dies are still FL sizing dies and my non bushing FL dies are forster dies honed to avoid over working brass.

I understand. That is a good way to go about it.

Bottom line, most of these dies will work just fine. Its probably more important HOW we use them.

 

[ckleeves]

My reasons are the ease and rate of sizing is much better and enjoyable to me, case life and capacity is good as well. I am achieving my desired dimensions and translates well at the range and the field in accuracy. Additionally, I never had a chambering / feeding issue until 6 firings. No annealing, just neck sizing. This was done on purpose. Choosing not to "bump" the shoulder each time to see if and when I would experience any ill effects. 6 firings was when I experienced some stiffness on closing the bolt with a loaded round. Adjusted my die, bumped the shoulder back .0015, problem solved.
Also, I am using all Norma brass one lot, it has been very consistent for me. I wouldn't suggest trying this method with crappy brass (Hornady), don't ask me how I know. All brass is not created equal.

Honestly, and this is for everybody, I would like to know what is bad or not good about a specific cartridge fitting in a specific rifle extremely well on top of having great accuracy and zero issues chambering or feeding? What am I missing?

For me I have never gained anything neck sizing at all. You have to keep very accurate firing counts if your going to bump at a certain number of firings. Let’s say you have 50 pc of brass. You have 30 loaded and 20 fired and it’s the week before you start a 2 month marathon of hunting and you also want to go out and verify everything at distance. You go burn 20 verifying, have 10 left and now your at your number of firings before bumping so you have to either fire the other 10, start fresh on all 50, re verify because you made a very slight change (in some cases) now your just about back where you started. And you get do it all over again once you get back to just neck sizing.

Never seen a difference in case life, never seen a gain in accuracy by just neck sizing. I’m not saying to bury a FL die into a shell plate. Done correctly I think your only gaining consistency and reliability.


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[MuleyFever]

Yes, as long as you are using the same brass and bullets. I would still check the first few loaded rounds to make sure everything is to spec.

I measured the loaded rounds at .310 neck size. So I would want a .306 bushing if I plan to use a mandrel? If not then get a .308?

Is the nitride coating worth the cost?

 

[Vandy321]

All depends on what neck tension you want to set.

For bushing/expander mandrel...the example of .004 under loaded round diameter for the bushing size and then expanding to .002 under bullet caliber with the mandrel will get you maybe just a tad over 2 thou neck tension in the end after springback. Someon correct me if that's wrong as thats what I've been using.

I cant speak to the FL die setup/sizes, but hopefully someone will QC that for you.

 

[doverpack12]

I measured the loaded rounds at .310 neck size. So I would want a .306 bushing if I plan to use a mandrel? If not then get a .308?

Is the nitride coating worth the cost?

Correct on your bushings. Some pretty good shooters on here have used both nitride and plain steel with no difference in accuracy.

 

[MuleyFever]

I got almost everything ordered. I am going with neck sizing for a couple firings then a body die to resize when needed.

I ordered the Redding Type S die, with the .004 under size bushing, and the sizing mandrel.

Question is do I need to use case lube to just resize the neck? I did order the Imperial Dry Neck Lube.

 

[MuleyFever]

One thing that can really cause a new reloader to overbuy/overthink is buying and reading beyond what they need to.

What are you realistically trying to do? Guys can get way to deep into this (me included) if your loading for a factory barrel/factory rifle that’s only capable of 1 moa, then loading like your competing in benchrest isn’t going to do anything but hurt your wallet.

Bushing dies, annealing machines, mandrels, neck turning, concentricity gauges, etc simply are not going to make that much difference if the rifle or shooter isn’t capable.


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I am trying to get .5"-.75" consistent groups from a Kimber. I want to believe that the rifle and I are capable of that. I am at 1" groups with factory ammo.

In addition, I do hope to upgrade the rifle down the road but, I plan to stick with the 280ai. I feel that for this round, reloading will be the best long term plan to get the best accuracy.

 

[amassi]

I got almost everything ordered. I am going with neck sizing for a couple firings then a body die to resize when needed.

I ordered the Redding Type S die, with the .004 under size bushing, and the sizing mandrel.

Question is do I need to use case lube to just resize the neck? I did order the Imperial Dry Neck Lube.

Yes- lube up everytime that brass goes into the die.
For example- when your setting up your shoulder bump you make have to bump one piece of brass a couple times to get that die set. Relube every time
Also, if it hasn't been said- clean your dies when you get them

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[Muley Buck]

I got almost everything ordered. I am going with neck sizing for a couple firings then a body die to resize when needed.

I ordered the Redding Type S die, with the .004 under size bushing, and the sizing mandrel.

Question is do I need to use case lube to just resize the neck? I did order the Imperial Dry Neck Lube.

To me part of the beauty of neck sizing is not having to use lube. I never do, and have never had a problem. If I ever do use lube for anything whether it be for neck or FL sizing it will always be the imperial sizing die wax. It is excellent!

 

[MuleyFever]

To me part of the beauty of neck sizing is not having to use lube. I never do, and have never had a problem. If I ever do use lube for anything whether it be for neck or FL sizing it will always be the imperial sizing die wax. It is excellent!

The kit came with One Shot but I did order the Imperial wax. What is your process for using the wax?