Recommendations/advice for crossbow setup for archery seasons out West

[Outdoor Introvert]

I live and hunt exclusively out West and as a disabled veteran starting this fall I will be using a crossbow for archery seasons. I am looking for any helpful recommendations/advice on how to go about setting up my crossbow from any other crossbow/archery hunters, especially any other folks hunting out West for big game in the backcountry with a crossbow, as I am completely new to anything crossbow or archery related but know there are a few other folks on this site that use them.

I will only be using the crossbow during Western archery seasons, and all of my hunts are pretty much backpacking in so I would like to keep the weight down if reasonably possible, but need the setup to be durable and reliable. I also am wanting to use one arrow setup for all the big game animals I would potentially hunt with it (antelope, mule deer, and elk), so I would like to shoot for a total arrow weight of at least 500 grains for good penetration on a large bull elk.

I already have a 2018 Excalibur Matrix Bulldog 380 crossbow that I bought last spring for a really good price with the intention of setting it up this year if I was able to draw an archery tag. Now that I have an antlered mule deer tag for this fall I am ready to get the crossbow setup. Below are my current plans but would appreciate any helpful advice from what type of broadhead to consider to what type of serving wax etc.:

I am not able to use a scope for archery season, but I am able to use a red dot reflex sight. I already have a Trijicon MRO that I will be taking off my AR-15 and plan to use on my crossbow. So, at this point I just need to find a good ultra low base to mount the MRO onto the crossbows picatinny rail.

I currently plan on buying a HHA crossbow sight, either their Optimizer Speed Dial or their new Tetra XB if it will fit my crossbow. Unless someone has a better recommendation? There don't seem to be many choices unfortunately.

The crossbow comes with 18 inch carbon arrows and I plan on replacing them with 20 inch carbon arrows to help get the total arrow weight up. I need to contact Excalibur and see if 22 inch arrows would work, however I am doubtful as half the arrow would be hanging off unsupported so I'm probably stuck with 20 inch carbon arrows. Is there any particular arrow I should consider (would again prefer the heaviest per inch crossbow arrows to help get the weight up and also need to figure out how to add insert weights and also need a flat knock)?

The crossbow also comes with a quiver that will hold four arrows. I am not sure how many arrows I should plan on backpacking in with me, although four seems potentially a bit on the low side?

I still need to research targets, waxes, etc. but am hoping others with experience are willing to chime in on what they use and what has worked for them over the years and/or things they would have done differently. Thanks.

 

[307]

Black eagle executioner is one of the better arrow options, 9.0 gpi

180 shaft
110 brass insert
35 lighted nock?
21 fetching
125 broadlead
4 wrap

475 grains

 

[Spiral Horn]

Hi AK Hunter. Looks like you’ve been lurking on Rokslide for quite some time, and now jumping into the deep end of the pool.

I’m a retired soldier and multi-weapon hunter, primarily a bowhunter, but also have considerable experience with crossbow - have taken a bunch of critters via CB = Whitetail, MountIn Caribou, Kudu, and a bunch of others, even a hippo. So, let’s see if we address a few of your questions/concerns.

An Excalibur Matrix Bulldog 380 is plenty of CB for anything in North America. It is very rugged for backcountry hunts, has no pulleys or cables, and one can easily replace the bowstring in he field (I’ve done it). Your sight solution is excellent. The HHA Optimizer is a great idea if not allowed to use a scope.

Arrows/bolts - Use a dedicated crossbow bolt. I’m a big fan of Black Eagle Executioners. For bolts specific to the crossbow you might want to try either Borkholder Archery or South Shore Archery Supply. I’ve had good luck with both - SSA is more expensive and takes longer but Jerry is very meticulous. Length - if a 20 inch bolt doesn’t protrude too far forward (like equal to or beyond the stirrup) it’s likely OK. I use 20s in my Matrix 400 and love them. Weight - don’t think you’ll need a 500+gr bolt for deer and elk. I like to keep my bolts somewhere around 450 or so to get the best balance of speed and deep penetration on everything except dangerous game. Never failed me. Also, I like a bit of offset or helical in my fletching - find it helps stabilize hunting heads. Don’t know how long your planned backpack trip will be - single species hunt for a few days 6 bolts will do. A week and multiple species think 9 or more. There are collapsing arrow tubes that help this.

Broadheads - very personal choice. For fixed blades I find Excalibur Boltcutters accurate and deep penetrating although their diameter is a bit small. Also love QAD Exodus 125gr and have taken a lot of game with them - but they will need some offset fletching for consistent groups. For expandibles I‘ve had very good results from Rage Hypodermic 2-blade 125gr. The CB generates a lot of energy to take full advantage of the wide-cut.

Target - just buy a Rinehart 18-1 and don’t look back. You’ll be happy with it.

Another place for great advice on crossbows and accessories is crossbownation.com

Hope this helps

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

Black eagle executioner is one of the better arrow options, 9.0 gpi

180 shaft
110 brass insert
35 lighted nock?
21 fetching
125 broadlead
4 wrap

475 grains

Thank you for the helpful response, I will have to give those a look. I would be quite happy with a 475 grain arrow setup and know that some crossbow broadheads are even 150 grains which would put me at 500 total. Is it worth paying extra for arrows that are .001" vs .003" straightness? The arrow setup is the part that becomes a bit overwhelming for someone like myself who is new to it all in terms of arrows, so I would be trying to buy arrows from a dealer and just screw in the broadheads myself or if need be order custom arrows and add the broadhead myself. Seems like a person can potentially get wrapped around the handle in a hurry with arrow setups. Thanks again for the arrow example.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

Hi AK Hunter. Looks like you’ve been lurking on Rokslide for quite some time, and now jumping into the deep end of the pool.

Wow, thanks for the detailed and very informative response Spiral Horn. Yes, I have been a member here for quite a few years, but don't spend much time online here.

I’m a retired soldier and multi-weapon hunter, primarily a bowhunter, but also have considerable experience with crossbow - have taken a bunch of critters via CB = Whitetail, MountIn Caribou, Kudu, and a bunch of others, even a hippo. So, let’s see if we address a few of your questions/concerns.

An Excalibur Matrix Bulldog 380 is plenty of CB for anything in North America. It is very rugged for backcountry hunts, has no pulleys or cables, and one can easily replace the bowstring in he field (I’ve done it). Your sight solution is excellent. The HHA Optimizer is a great idea if not allowed to use a scope.

Yeah, I got that specific crossbow knowing it would certainly be plenty of crossbow for anything I plan to hunt with it and because they are a simple and reliable design like you say. I also got a great price on it which was nice. Do you have much hunting experience with the HHA Optimizer, is it pretty durable and does it hold zero well and maintain the yardage setting in the field well or does it need to be babied a bit.

Unfortunately, I cannot legally use a scope here so a red dot seems to be the next best thing and thankfully is legal. So I will use the Trijicon MRO that I already own and put it on a HHA Optimizer or their new Tetra XB which seems a bit better if it will work on my crossbow. I have not heard of a better setup since a scope is not an option for me.

Arrows/bolts - Use a dedicated crossbow bolt. I’m a big fan of Black Eagle Executioners. For bolts specific to the crossbow you might want to try either Borkholder Archery or South Shore Archery Supply. I’ve had good luck with both - SSA is more expensive and takes longer but Jerry is very meticulous.

Both you guys have mentioned the Black Eagle Executioners so I will probably just get those and be done with it for arrows. Is it worth the extra money to get .001" straightness vs .003"? Do you recommend having either one of the above mentioned archery shops building me custom arrows?

Length - if a 20 inch bolt doesn’t protrude too far forward (like equal to or beyond the stirrup) it’s likely OK. I use 20s in my Matrix 400 and love them.

It looks like by the time I put a broadhead on a 20 inch arrow it should be about 0.5-1.0" shy of the front of the stirrup so I assume I should be ok with this?

Weight - don’t think you’ll need a 500+gr bolt for deer and elk. I like to keep my bolts somewhere around 450 or so to get the best balance of speed and deep penetration on everything except dangerous game. Never failed me.

That is good to hear, I wont worry too much about trying to hit 500 grains then and would be fine with anything at 450 grains or heavier.

Also, I like a bit of offset or helical in my fletching - find it helps stabilize hunting heads.

I am pretty ignorant on this and in arrow setup in general as messing with archery and crossbow stuff is all new to me. I was under the impression that the fletching was straight for a crossbow and assumed anything other than straight would get damaged travelling down the grove of the barrel or is this such a short distance (about 15" on my crossbow) that it doesn' matter? I dont even know how the 18" Excalibur arrows the crossbow came with are fletched and just assumed they were straight. I can certainly see where something other than straight would only help with arrow flight.

Don’t know how long your planned backpack trip will be - single species hunt for a few days 6 bolts will do. A week and multiple species think 9 or more. There are collapsing arrow tubes that help this.

For this particular deer tag this fall I will probably only have a week to pack in and try for one. I have seen vertical bow hunters carrying extra arrows in the arrow tubes but didnt really know how they went about it. Does ones store the arrows in the tube completely ready to go or do they need to be stored with the broadhead removed and the broadhead screwed on only when adding the arrow to the quiver? I will look into getting an arrow tube.

Broadheads - very personal choice. For fixed blades I find Excalibur Boltcutters accurate and deep penetrating although their diameter is a bit small. Also love QAD Exodus 125gr and have taken a lot of game with them - but they will need some offset fletching for consistent groups. For expandibles I‘ve had very good results from Rage Hypodermic 2-blade 125gr. The CB generates a lot of energy to take full advantage of the wide-cut.

I know there are tons of broadheads out there and probably plenty of real good ones. That is good to hear that even the Excalibur Boltcutters have worked well for you and are a pretty good choice and that would be an easy option. Did you shoot those with straight fletching?

I like the looks of the QAD Exodus 125 grain you recommended. So if I go with those on the Black Eagle Executioners in 20" what kind of offset would you recommend, looks like they rate it by degrees? Would I want helical or just offset? Also do you have any opinion of the length of the fletching, looks like the choices seem to be either 2" or 3" for that particular arrow? I assume I would need an archery shop (either of the two you mentioned above) to custom build such an arrow setup and then I could just screw on the broadhead?

Target - just buy a Rinehart 18-1 and don’t look back. You’ll be happy with it.

I like the looks of that target. Nice that I would only need one target in that case and could shoot fieldpoints and broadheads as well as expandibles at it no problem. I will get one of those.

Another place for great advice on crossbows and accessories is crossbownation.com

I was going to check them out as well as probably the Excalibur forums, but am not a member of either yet and figured I would try Rokslide first as there are lots of knowledgable folks on here like yourself.

Hope this helps

All this helps a lot, I really appreciate all the detailed advice. Sorry for so many questions. Getting the arrows setup and getting them to fly well enough is a bit overwhelming as I don't know any one that archery hunts to ask for assistance so it just ends up being a lot of questions as I try to get a handle on it for the upcoming season. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Drenalin]

FYI on the Rhinehart 18-1, you can get new blemished targets on ebay around $100. Mine showed up a few days ago and the blemishes are all cosmetic, target functions as it should.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

FYI on the Rhinehart 18-1, you can get new blemished targets on ebay around $100. Mine showed up a few days ago and the blemishes are all cosmetic, target functions as it should.

Thank you for letting me know, I just ordered one. Some reviews complained of it being difficult to remove arrows with field points so I may try to get a cheap bag target as well for those. Thanks again.

 

[307]

Thank you for letting me know, I just ordered one. Some reviews complained of it being difficult to remove arrows with field points so I may try to get a cheap bag target as well for those. Thanks again.

The bag target is a really good idea. These arrows have quite a bit of energy so they really dig in deep in the foam targets.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

The bag target is a really good idea. These arrows have quite a bit of energy so they really dig in deep in the foam targets.

Yeah I just need to find an inexpensive one. I was reading a bit more and think I will try to go with the Black Eagle Zombie Slayers over the Executioners as they are suppose to have a 25% stiffer spine according to the manufacturer which I've read helps them shoot a bit more accurate in the faster crossbows.

 

[Spiral Horn]

For my Matrix 380 always felt the executioners were the best spine match. Now for my much higher energy Scorpyd, the stiffer Zombies might be a better fit.

If you have any doubt call Black Eagle and ask what they would recommend.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

For my Matrix 380 always felt the executioners were the best spine match. Now for my much higher energy Scorpyd, the stiffer Zombies might be a better fit.

If you have any doubt call Black Eagle and ask what they would recommend.

Thanks for letting me know, I emailed Black Eagle. Did you shoot the QAD Exodus with offset flething on your Matrix 380? I was originally under the impression that crossbows had to have straight fletching as to not interfer with the groove in the rail, but I guess this is for such a short distance that it doesnt damage the fletching if offset or helical.

I still need to figure out what would be the best fletching setup for either of the two Black Eagle arrows as I like the idea of the QAD Exodus broadheads you recommended previously. I know you mentioned they need offset fletching. Do you have any further advice on how much offset or is helical ok? Also, how long of fletching (2", 3", 4") would you recommend? Still trying to figure out how to go about setting up a good arrow to use on elk and anything smaller and this is the somewhat confusing part for someone new to arrows like myself. Thanks for your time and help.

 

[Spiral Horn]

I use 2in either Blazer or Flex Fletch and I’m certain there are other equally as good or better options. Personally think Flex is slightly better at stabilization but they do not well survive penetration into the target. So your target needs to be tough enough to stop the bolts without them burying to the fletch. I actually use a bit of Carnuba car wax on my bolts to ensure I can pull them out when firing at 20-30 yards or closer.

As far as offset is concerned, the conventional wisdom is to use straight fletch on a crossbow due to the groove. But I’ve been successful using a slight bit of offset (say 1% or so). It definitely helps to stabilize fixed heads. It’s just one of those things to experiment with. Would suggest trying the smallest amount that might work, but don’t push it too far - certainly cannot high offset or full helical.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

I use 2in either Blazer or Flex Fletch and I’m certain there are other equally as good or better options. Personally think Flex is slightly better at stabilization but they do not well survive penetration into the target. So your target needs to be tough enough to stop the bolts without them burying to the fletch. I actually use a bit of Carnuba car wax on my bolts to ensure I can pull them out when firing at 20-30 yards or closer.

As far as offset is concerned, the conventional wisdom is to use straight fletch on a crossbow due to the groove. But I’ve been successful using a slight bit of offset (say 1% or so). It definitely helps to stabilize fixed heads. It’s just one of those things to experiment with. Would suggest trying the smallest amount that might work, but don’t push it too far - certainly cannot high offset or full helical.

I bought one of the Rinehart 18-1 targets you had recommended earlier and should receive it later this week. I was originally planning on using it for field points and broadheads but some of the reviews complained of it being difficult to remove field points from so decided to go ahead and buy a run of the mill bag target for field points. Do you think I will have problems shooting at 20-30 yards on a bag target and having the arrows bury themselves to the fletching which I obvioulsy want to avoid? I dont really see myself ever target practicing at closer than 20 yards.

Yes, straight fletching for crossbow arrows is what I originally assumed everyone used due to the vane traveling down the grove for 15 inches or so in my bows case, however imparting some spine on the arrow would be nice. As I have read some older threads on the Excalibur and Crossbow Nation forums I have seen people mentioning using offset and even helical and wondered how well that worked, especially helical and if it tore up the fletching etc. After a few of you guys on here recommended the Black Eagle Executioners I found this deal on crossbow arrows from this crossbow store: https://www.wyverncreations.com/exc...21/custom-premium-excalibur-arrows-p-946.html . I was leaning towards buying a dozen of these for that price in either the Executioner or the Zombie Slayer depending on what I hear back from Black Eagle regarding stiffness. Either way the description states that they, "custom fletch them with high helical white Blazer vanes". Is this a problem and something I should avoid. They seem to be a well regarded crossbow store and these are clearly crossbow arrows so not sure what to think. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Would recommend developing a relationship with a pro shop or two. You’ll have a lot of questions over time. Dave at Wyvern will be more than willing to discuss any of his products, as will the guys at Borkholder and Jerry at South Shore,

Also www.crossbownation.com is a site completely dedicated to crossbows and crossbow hunting with a lot of experienced folks willing to help.

Strongly recommend reading your crossbow owner’s manual and watching all associated safe operation videos. Crossbows store incredible amounts of energy that can result in catastrophic injury if operated in an unsafe manner. There are plenty of examples from a simple web search. Highly recommend becoming thoroughly familiar with the manufacturers recommended safe operation of any crossbow and all of its components and recommend accessories prior to embarking on any customization. Be careful, be safe, and have fun.

 

[Fullfan]

One thing I can tell you about hauling a crossbow around in the Western states. Most are 8-10 pounds and become a pain in the rear to carry. I have a Raven R20 that I use in Idaho when elk hunting. Best way I found to carry it is on a pack frame. I use the pack frame to get in and out, but will take the raven off the frame when I am hunting.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

Would recommend developing a relationship with a pro shop or two. You’ll have a lot of questions over time. Dave at Wyvern will be more than willing to discuss any of his products, as will the guys at Borkholder and Jerry at South Shore,

Also www.crossbownation.com is a site completely dedicated to crossbows and crossbow hunting with a lot of experienced folks willing to help.

Strongly recommend reading your crossbow owner’s manual and watching all associated safe operation videos. Crossbows store incredible amounts of energy that can result in catastrophic injury if operated in an unsafe manner. There are plenty of examples from a simple web search. Highly recommend becoming thoroughly familiar with the manufacturers recommended safe operation of any crossbow and all of its components and recommend accessories prior to embarking on any customization. Be careful, be safe, and have fun.

Thanks for the reply. I emailed Wyvern, Borkholder, and South Shore this past weekend with some questions and will probably end up buying a lot of assessories from Wyvern at this point. Arrows are the main thing to get figured our at this point.

I also joined Crossbow Nation over the weekend and have posted over there received quite a few response, although nearly all of them have no experience hunting out West which was the main reason for trying on Rokslide.

I also watched a bunch of Youtube videos and read a lot of older forum post. Still need to join and post on the Excalibur forum. Seems like all the responses from the guys on Crossbow Nation are guys shooting offset or even helical fletching. Thanks.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

One thing I can tell you about hauling a crossbow around in the Western states. Most are 8-10 pounds and become a pain in the rear to carry. I have a Raven R20 that I use in Idaho when elk hunting. Best way I found to carry it is on a pack frame. I use the pack frame to get in and out, but will take the raven off the frame when I am hunting.

Yeah I am not really looking forward to fiddling with attaching it to my backpack and hiking around with it for days on end as it seems kind of ackward. I will be weighing everything when I am ready to assemble the final setup but would image it will come in at at least 8 pounds unfortunately like you say. At least my main hunting rifle is nearly 9 pounds so in that sence it will be similar. That Raven R20 looks like a really nice crossbow. Are you able to use a scope in Idaho or a red dot etc.? Do you have any experiece with the HHA Optimizer? Also, what type of arrow setup are you using for elk? Thanks for the comments.

 

[Cubby]

Not sure where you are hunting in the western side but FYI in MT they consider crossbow to be a rifle and you can't use one in archery season.

 

[Outdoor Introvert]

Not sure where you are hunting in the western side but FYI in MT they consider crossbow to be a rifle and you can't use one in archery season.

Yeah, I was aware of that, but thanks. I don't have any interest or plans of ever hunting Montana; however, if I ever was wanting to hunt in an archery season there I would definitely be getting Montana straightened out on that as it is a pretty blatant violation of the ADA laws for them not to at least have a process for hunters with physical disabilities that prevent them from using a vertical bow, to at least be able to get a permit for crossbow use in archery like most other states. I think there are at least one or two other states out West that have a similar situation, but again I don't have any interest or plans on giving them my business either.

 

[307]

I just got some stuff from Wyvern. They cut the BEE down to 16.5" (I shoot an Excalibur Micro 340TD) and I wish they wouldn't have... I think I could chew them off at 16.5" straighter than they were cut... It was really bad "workmanship". It took me FOREVER to get them to square on each end with my G5 ASD. Finally got everything square and epoxied the inserts. Will fletch tonight and will give you a report in the next couple of days on the BEE vs the "stock" arrows that came with the bow.