Same Ft/Lbs at 500 yards, is heavier grain bullet more effective?

[steffen707]

I asked this same question on another forum. Curious what roksliders think on this.

Lets say you have 2 different bullets that each have:
1500 ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards, 145gr traveling 200fps faster than other.

the other

1500 ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards, 165gr traveling 200fps slower than other.

Which will be more likely to kill an elk at 500yards.

Lets take out recoil, wind drift, drop, cost. Just assume both bullets are BONDED and make contact on the animal in the same spot. ?

now

Lets take out recoil, wind drift, drop, cost. Just assume both bullets are MONO and make contact on the animal in the same spot. ?

 

[steffen707]

I guess what i'm wondering is with the whole ft/lbs calculation, is it fair to compare different weight bullets ft/lbs of energy, and the higher ft/lbs one is always better.

Or can a larger grain bullet with lower ft/lbs, actually be more lethal than the lighter grain bullet, if both have same bullet composition.

Oh look, maybe this article will help edjumacate me, https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=173

 

[EmperorMA]

I do not care about ft lbs of energy. I just want to know how the bullet is constructed and what the impact velocity will be.

With the mono bullets you describe above, I take the higher impact velocity regardless of weight, so in this case, the 145.

The bonded bullet would depend entirely on SD. The only thing I need the energy number for is to figure that both are still traveling at a very respectable impact velocity. Next I'd want to know SD as I'd much rather have a 145 bonded bullet in 6.5 hit that animal than a 165 30-cal going 200 fps slower. Make it a 7mm and I would still choose the 145. Make the 165 a 7mm and I might choose it over a 6.5 145 but would for sure choose it over a .277 145. Again, the energy means nothing. I want to know impact velocity and bullet construction first, then I want to start splitting hairs with things like SD.

 

[eoperator]

I do not care about ft lbs of energy. I just want to know how the bullet is constructed and what the impact velocity will be.

With the mono bullets you describe above, I take the higher impact velocity regardless of weight, so in this case, the 145.

The bonded bullet would depend entirely on SD. The only thing I need the energy number for is to figure that both are still traveling at a very respectable impact velocity. Next I'd want to know SD as I'd much rather have a 145 bonded bullet in 6.5 hit that animal than a 165 30-cal going 200 fps slower. Make it a 7mm and I would still choose the 145. Make the 165 a 7mm and I might choose it over a 6.5 145 but probably not over a .277 145. Again, the energy means nothing. I want to know impact velocity and bullet construction first, then I want to start splitting hairs with things like SD.

☝ Some sage advice there.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I do not care about ft lbs of energy. I just want to know how the bullet is constructed and what the impact velocity will be.

With the mono bullets you describe above, I take the higher impact velocity regardless of weight, so in this case, the 145.

The bonded bullet would depend entirely on SD. The only thing I need the energy number for is to figure that both are still traveling at a very respectable impact velocity. Next I'd want to know SD as I'd much rather have a 145 bonded bullet in 6.5 hit that animal than a 165 30-cal going 200 fps slower. Make it a 7mm and I would still choose the 145. Make the 165 a 7mm and I might choose it over a 6.5 145 but would for sure choose it over a .277 145. Again, the energy means nothing. I want to know impact velocity and bullet construction first, then I want to start splitting hairs with things like SD.

I know it's in vogue to eschew foot pounds of energy these days, but everyone that does it mentions the value of bullet weight and/or impact velocity. The two measures that combine to give us energy. If it meant nothing, we could all be hunting everything with bonded 30 grain 204 bullets. Bullet weight matters and bullet velocity matters.

 

[Formidilosus]

I know it's in vogue to eschew foot pounds of energy these days, but everyone that does it mentions the value of bullet weight and/or impact velocity. The two measures that combine to give us energy. If it meant nothing, we could all be hunting everything with bonded 30 grain 204 bullets. Bullet weight matters and bullet velocity matters.

How many ft-lbs of energy does a .308 180gr Accubond need to expand? How about a .277 130gr Partition? .284 180gr ELD-M? .264 130gr TLR? .243 105gr Berger? .223 77gr TMK? .338 225gr TSX?


I would have little issue hunting most things with a bonded 30gr .204

 

[RCB]

The 145 gr bullet would be moving at 2158 fps. The 165 gr bullet would be moving at 2023 fps. Both plenty fast I would think, regardless of bullet type.

A heavier bullet with the same kinetic energy will have more momentum. I don't know if that means anything useful here.

I don't really have enough practical experience to say. And, I bet anyone who actually claims that one is definitely better than the other is probably full of shit. I wouldn't agonize over this.

 

[BRTreedogs]

A semi truck going slower is gonna do more damage then a car going faster.

 

[Formidilosus]

A semi truck going slower is gonna do more damage then a car going faster.

That is an erroneous example.

 

[BRTreedogs]

That is an erroneous example.

Lol whats how I roll.

 

[hereinaz]

Impact velocity and bullet construction matter most and are the shortcut for lethality determination. You can use energy, but it isn't as direct a correlation for bullet performance as velocity.

At 500 yards, its not gonna matter one bit between them if it hits vitals. If I had to pick one of those, I would go with less velocity because it is a bigger bonded bullet and at that velocity it will likely leave/transfer more "energy" in the animal.

If it were a jacketed match type bullet I would choose velocity because of the way they kill. The way different bullets transfer the energy matters for consideration. A pass through with a bonded bullet seems like it would transfers less than a jacketed bullet that doesn't exit. The jacketed bullet damages best with more impact velocity (except at very high impact velocities inside 150ish from magnums like Noslers and Rum).

Look at the 77gr .223 tipped match king thread on Rokslide where they are talking about how it has killed everything up to bear, elk and moose. Its all about the wound it creates and how to choose the bullet with the other factors, including shot placement. It is reliable to penetrate 12 to 16 inches and devestate along the path. Lungs don't recover from holes poked into them along with the huhe expansion of tissue in the wound channel.

My 7 ss with 180 was still hammering at 730 yards because it retains velocity because of mass and velocity. It was fast enough to go from just behind a coues shoulder then out the stomach and then blast a crater into the leg as it re-entered. It shed bits of bullet everywhere along rhe path and left the biggest part of the jacket and a piece of lead in the leg. The near side lung was completely devestated and everything in its path was shredded. It convinced me it is easy enough to bump down caliber as long as I have the velocity for the distance.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

How many ft-lbs of energy does a .308 180gr Accubond need to expand? How about a .277 130gr Partition? .284 180gr ELD-M? .264 130gr TLR? .243 105gr Berger? .223 77gr TMK? .338 225gr TSX?


I would have little issue hunting most things with a bonded 30gr .204

If you want to use that on Elephants, knock yourself out boo. Me, I'd use something with more energy.

 

[Beendare]

In my years of elk hunting and guiding....

I will take the heavier bullet all day every day....even on Sunday.


———

 

[Formidilosus]

If you want to use that on Elephants, knock yourself out boo. Me, I'd use something with more energy.

Can you not answer the question?

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Can you not answer the question?

I did. You just don't like the answer.

 

[Goatie]

In my years of elk hunting and guiding....

I will take the heavier bullet all day every day....even on Sunday.


———

Cept in states still not allowing it.

 

[Formidilosus]

I did. You just don't like the answer.

I asked how many Ft-lbs it takes to expand those projectiles I listed.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I asked how many Ft-lbs it takes to expand those projectiles I listed.

You could ask how many pygmy goats I have killed with a 22LR. It would be irrelevant to the point I made in my first post. Ft pounds of energy and the two factors that go into it aren't worthless. I'll say this too. I have spent an inordinate amount of time on internet forums. There simply isn't a conversation to be had with egomaniacal know-it-alls, so I'll duck out.

 

[Spoonbill]

I asked this same question on another forum. Curious what roksliders think on this.

Lets say you have 2 different bullets that each have:
1500 ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards, 145gr traveling 200fps faster than other.

the other

1500 ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards, 165gr traveling 200fps slower than other.

Which will be more likely to kill an elk at 500yards.

Lets take out recoil, wind drift, drop, cost. Just assume both bullets are BONDED and make contact on the animal in the same spot. ?

now

Lets take out recoil, wind drift, drop, cost. Just assume both bullets are MONO and make contact on the animal in the same spot. ?

Assuming its a bonded bullet like an accubond or an aframe, id take the 145 grain bullet going faster for higher impact speed and flatter trajectory. But like other (who know way more than me) said, there are a lot of factors to look at when comparing the two.
I am guessing you are looking at the 6.8 western and a 270wsm?

 

[woods89]

Just one forum idiot's opinion here but to me the more relevant questions are-

Can I get a bullet in his lungs from here?

Will it impact at better than 1800 fps? (adjust for your bullet as needed)