School me on lead-free bullets

[BAKPAKR]

Anyone try the Barnes LRX? I’m thinking of loading some up for a tikka 300 wm now that California forces us to use copper. I’ve killed quite a few animals with the 120-150 grain ttsx and regular tsx and all died but ran a bit before tipping over. Save for an antelope doe this year that hit the dirt hard 380 yards.

I used a 200 gr LRX out of a 300 RUM on a moose last year. The bull dropped in its tracks with a strong quartering to me shot at about 50 yards. The two moose I shot before that one soaked up a few 200 gr Accubonds each. Both of them were close shots, too.

The LRXs only had a muzzle velocity of 3015 fps while the Accubonds were going at 3150.

I plan on giving the Hammers a try one of these days - mtmuley convinced me. I am not really a long range hunter but I might have to try the Cutting Edge bullets, too.

 

[RosinBag]

I am running the LRX at of my 28 Nosler for CA hunts. The 145’s at 3300 FPS.

 

[Azone]

No personal experience with the E tips but the reviews have been mixed from my friends that have used them. Some guys have had drop and roll performance with them while others will never use them again.

One of my friends runs GMX's out of his 308 and I got to use it take 5 hogs on a depredation hunt one evening with shots ranging from 50 yards to right under 400 yards and hogs were on the ground kicking on impact. Shot placement on the closer shots was in the head and shot placement on the furthest two shots was high shoulder. I recovered one bullet from the second furthest shot which was 350 ish yards and it was a picture perfect mushroom. All other shots exited.

Barnes TSX suck for game in my opinion and experience with them. The TTSX are a night and day difference in performance vs the TSX. When Sacramento forced us to copper bullets due to condor conflict, the first couple years all that was available was the TSX, alot of people were not recovering deer with them. They were notorious for not expanding, accuracy was awesome, sub moa out of most guns I shot them out of, but performance on animals was a dumpster fire, no expansion whatsoever. The TTSX and the LRX work good as long as you put the bullet in the right place. I've not lost anything with them when aiming for a mid to high shoulder shot or the head or neck at closer range. I have been using the 100 grain TTSX with a 257Wby and it's a laser beam that knocks animals out when I do my part. Out of my 7 rem mag I have been running the 145 LRX and so far it's been nothing but a dead end for the few hogs it's been pointed at.

 

[mtmuley]

Well, that could be where our opinions differ I guess. I am not usually a tipped bullet fan, but in a mono, I like the insurance a tipped bullet brings to the table. Not saying both wont do the job, just saying they are not the same bullets.

Wondering why you like the tipped mono? I know you shoot a lot of Bergers, a hollow point bullet. Do you think the mono needs a tip to expand? mtmuley

 

[AK Troutbum]

I’m in the TTSX camp here, so much so that for the last 5 or 6 years, it been pretty much the only thing I’ve used. It’s printed well on paper from .22-250 to .375 H&H, and my family and I have killed a fair number of game with it, from deer to moose and brown bear, and as far out as 633 yards on a Dall sheep last year. For us, the bullet has performed very well and is very accurate in every rifle I’ve used it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Broz]

Wondering why you like the tipped mono? I know you shoot a lot of Bergers, a hollow point bullet. Do you think the mono needs a tip to expand? mtmuley

Yes I do. I was shooting solids before I ever shot Bergers, before Hammers were around, and before Barnes put tips on the TSX. The big issue back then was they flew right through even at 300 yards with big velocity impacts. Two elk in one season lost with the same bullets. Never found one, found the other the next day by birds, spoiled, 4.7 miles from where a friend made the shot, according to our GPS track. Shots were lung to lung. These incidents were why I switched to Bergers. You should know there is a huge difference between the way a cup core bullet and a solid mono react on expansion. I know the OP stated he "Usually" only shoots 500 and in. But the next shot could be a trophy that appears at 500, 700 or 800. The tip matters for consistent expansion on a solid. Could be why Hammer recommends 1800 fps for a low velocity impact and Cutting Edge recommends 1200 fps? I know you like Hammers and are friends with the owners, and that's great. I have not, and am not, saying one thing bad about them. Just that I prefer what I feel is a better choice. My decisions are documented by my personal experiences, and what I have seen by being there. The Lazer from Cutting edge is not their highest BC bullet line, it is in their hunting line. But they shoot so good, and are so consistent in BC and design they are the bullet that wins the majority of the Long range ELR matches. That to me speaks volumes. I always stack the odds in my favor for long range hunting. Bullet choice plays a huge part. We take dozens of elk each year. I feel I know what I need and only offer true tested info for those that it may help.
Thanks!
Jeff

 

[mtmuley]

The "friend" thing wasn't why I asked the question. I wanted your opinion. The owners of Hammer know I can make up my own mind of what bullet to use. Thanks. mtmuley

 

[BHolg]

I am in the process of load development. I am loading for a custom 7mmRemMag. my first round of testing for headspace is with the Barns 140gr tsx bt. and is already at 1/2 groups. It will get tighter as i the load developes but for most hunting purposes thats already a good shooting bullet. like i have alrady read in some post i can depend on your firearm. Remember run lighter bullets as the copper bullets are longer and trying to run the same bullet grain as lead bullets you might need to change your barrel twist rate. if your not going to load your own bullets buy them all and try them all. nothing kills better than shot placement.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We use 1800 fps as a min impact vel for hunting not because that is as low as our Hammer Bullets will deform properly. We use 1800 fps as a min only because we feel like it is a good min impact vel for clean harvest with any typical high vel hunting bullet.

All of our bullets test below 1800 fps. When we test our bullets and show a sub 1800 fps successfully, we do not continue testing to find the lowest vel. For customers who are comfortable shooting big game animals with lower than 1800 fps impacts we recommend they test their bullet choice at low velocity to be sure it performs to their satisfaction. Any good hunter should do this with whatever bullets they choose.

Steve Davis
Hammer Bullets

 

[JohnyRingo]

Here is some background to my question. I just sold my old Remington Model 700 300 H&H Magnum rifle and bought a new Browning XBolt 300 H&H. The old rifle was bought in 1995 and the load I shot out of it was developed in 1995. I used to shoot a 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. For the last 25 years, I shot the old rifle with the old load and had no problems killing deer, elk, antelope, black bear, sheep and moose. I just thought I would poke around a little bit now that I have a new rifle, new scope, new stock, etc and look for a new bullet.

It's funny because now that I research the BT's I have been shooting for the last 25 years, I find that it isn't supposed to be used on thick-skinned animals. So, my next choice of bullet was going to be the Accubond. Then I started looking at the long range bullets and then today, I started researching the lead-free bullets. I like to shoot rocks out to 1000 yards, but I will not shoot an elk past 600 yards and a deer past 700 yards. My H&H doesn't produce enough speed and FT/LB's beyond those yardages to effectively kill elk and mule deer, so I won't attempt a shot further than that.

In all honesty, most of my kills with my old H&H are around 100 yards. I am just about to start load development with my new rifle and wanted to know the deal with lead-free bullets. Chances are, I will either stick with the ole' Ballistic Tips or try the Accubonds.

My concerns with Cutting Edge or Hammers is their OAL of 1.5"+ length as compared to the 1.36" OAL of the BT's and AB's. The magazine boxes on the XBolt are not real generous for cartridge lengths.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is some background to my question. I just sold my old Remington Model 700 300 H&H Magnum rifle and bought a new Browning XBolt 300 H&H. The old rifle was bought in 1995 and the load I shot out of it was developed in 1995. I used to shoot a 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. For the last 25 years, I shot the old rifle with the old load and had no problems killing deer, elk, antelope, black bear, sheep and moose. I just thought I would poke around a little bit now that I have a new rifle, new scope, new stock, etc and look for a new bullet.

It's funny because now that I research the BT's I have been shooting for the last 25 years, I find that it isn't supposed to be used on thick-skinned animals. So, my next choice of bullet was going to be the Accubond. Then I started looking at the long range bullets and then today, I started researching the lead-free bullets. I like to shoot rocks out to 1000 yards, but I will not shoot an elk past 600 yards and a deer past 700 yards. My H&H doesn't produce enough speed and FT/LB's beyond those yardages to effectively kill elk and mule deer, so I won't attempt a shot further than that.

In all honesty, most of my kills with my old H&H are around 100 yards. I am just about to start load development with my new rifle and wanted to know the deal with lead-free bullets. Chances are, I will either stick with the ole' Ballistic Tips or try the Accubonds.

My concerns with Cutting Edge or Hammers is their OAL of 1.5"+ length as compared to the 1.36" OAL of the BT's and AB's. The magazine boxes on the XBolt are not real generous for cartridge lengths.

We designed the 174g Hammer Hunter with a shorter nose length to more comfortably fit in short magazines.

Steve Davis
Hammer Bullets

 

[Broz]

My concerns with Cutting Edge or Hammers is their OAL of 1.5"+ length as compared to the 1.36" OAL of the BT's and AB's. The magazine boxes on the XBolt are not real generous for cartridge lengths.

The 165 gr Cutting Edge Lazer has a total over all length of 1.446" and a projection length of .750" and will shoot from an 11 twist. The 180 has an oal of 1.537" and the same projection length of .750" and will shoot from an 10 twist.

If you would like more info, go here Cutting Edge Lazers , choose the bullet and click the "More Information" tab. They also have ballistic gel photo's and a good description of how the lazers work after entering an animal. I like the fragmenting design. Fragments cause destroyed vitals and internal oil leaks which result in less tracking.

Good luck, hope some of this has helped.

Jeff

 

[ragz]

Recently read a Journal of Mountain Hunting article that had data behind improved performance (less fragmentation) with all copper bullets over lead bonded. Bought some Federal loaded with TSX to try out in 6.5.

 

[CApighunter]

Anyone try the Barnes LRX? I’m thinking of loading some up for a tikka 300 wm now that California forces us to use copper. I’ve killed quite a few animals with the 120-150 grain ttsx and regular tsx and all died but ran a bit before tipping over. Save for an antelope doe this year that hit the dirt hard 380 yards.

I played with the 175 lrx in my tikka 300 win with RL22 and wasn’t real impressed. Planning to try other powders this summer

 

[wind gypsy]

Recently read a Journal of Mountain Hunting article that had data behind improved performance (less fragmentation) with all copper bullets over lead bonded. Bought some Federal loaded with TSX to try out in 6.5.

I wouldn’t always consider less fragmentation to be an improvement.

 

[Broz]

I wouldn’t always consider less fragmentation to be an improvement.

I agree, and from what I have seen fragments mean a lot less tracking.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Anyone try the Barnes LRX? I’m thinking of loading some up for a tikka 300 wm now that California forces us to use copper. I’ve killed quite a few animals with the 120-150 grain ttsx and regular tsx and all died but ran a bit before tipping over. Save for an antelope doe this year that hit the dirt hard 380 yards.

Yes per my first post, a lot of 145lrx. I shoot heart zone (never rear lung) and either drop on the spot or within 30yds.

 

[deerkiller]

Here is some background to my question. I just sold my old Remington Model 700 300 H&H Magnum rifle and bought a new Browning XBolt 300 H&H. The old rifle was bought in 1995 and the load I shot out of it was developed in 1995. I used to shoot a 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. For the last 25 years, I shot the old rifle with the old load and had no problems killing deer, elk, antelope, black bear, sheep and moose. I just thought I would poke around a little bit now that I have a new rifle, new scope, new stock, etc and look for a new bullet.

It's funny because now that I research the BT's I have been shooting for the last 25 years, I find that it isn't supposed to be used on thick-skinned animals. So, my next choice of bullet was going to be the Accubond. Then I started looking at the long range bullets and then today, I started researching the lead-free bullets. I like to shoot rocks out to 1000 yards, but I will not shoot an elk past 600 yards and a deer past 700 yards. My H&H doesn't produce enough speed and FT/LB's beyond those yardages to effectively kill elk and mule deer, so I won't attempt a shot further than that.

In all honesty, most of my kills with my old H&H are around 100 yards. I am just about to start load development with my new rifle and wanted to know the deal with lead-free bullets. Chances are, I will either stick with the ole' Ballistic Tips or try the Accubonds.

My concerns with Cutting Edge or Hammers is their OAL of 1.5"+ length as compared to the 1.36" OAL of the BT's and AB's. The magazine boxes on the XBolt are not real generous for cartridge lengths.

for 90+% of successful elk hunters the Nosler ACCUBOND will work and work well ….

 

[duckhunter175]

My copper experience is with the Barnes LRX- I'm a big fan of its' performance on deer/antelope from 100 to 400 yards. That was a 145gr @ 3350fps

The key with monos are to move them fast to ensure expansion. Drop your bullet weight down to increase velocity if needed especially if you are trying to reach 500 yards.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Hammer Bullets do not require higher impact vel to perform correctly. Using bullets that match the required twist rate is what is truly important. Our bullets are all advertised with a min recommended twist ratethat will produce a 1.5sg with standard atmosphere at sea level. I personally run my hunting rifles closer to 2.0sg for hunting. This will keep your bullet point forward and tracking true through the animal. This rule holds true for any bullet on the market but particularly for pure copper bullets, due to the fact that the Miller stability formula is not accurate for copper. It does not take into account for material density. The longer for caliber bullets get the more important full, or higher, stability is necessary for proper terminal performance.

The copper that we use in our bullets is very soft. As far as I know it is softer than the rest. Giving our bullets advantage for lower vel impacts.