Shot a bareshaft at 40 yards...what does this mean?

Finch

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So i have an Elite E35 that I just put on new strings and cables a couple months back. The bow is in spec and I only had to make a minor adjustment to get the cams in synch. I feel like the bow is very well tuned.

This morning I shot a quick group at 40 yards and all arrows hit inside the sticky note I have on my target. Decided to shoot a bareshaft at this distance and I could see the arrow on the way to the target and then it seemed to make a drastic turn right and missed the target altogether by a few feet. Does this tell you weak spine? Bareshafting at 20 yards...my FPs and bareshaft hit together.

Ill have to get arrow specs and such when I get home in case anyone is curious.


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Brendan

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At 40 yards - you need to be pretty much perfect to have consistent bare shaft flight in terms of your form, grip and shot execution. I personally wouldn't make any judgement unless you are starting to see that pattern at closer ranges - and it's consistent shot to shot.

Try 25 yards first - still dead on, or close? Then move to 30, then 35, then 40. If a pattern develops and it's consistent - then you might have a spine issue, or a very slight tuning issue that wasn't showing itself at closer ranges. If it's not consistent - then you just found a pretty good tool to help you work on your form and doing things the same shot to shot.

Personally - I'm at the point where I can shoot 3 bareshafts at 40 - one might hit dead on, one might hit a little right, one might hit a foot left. It all comes down to how consistent I am.
 
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Finch

Finch

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At 40 yards - you need to be pretty much perfect to have consistent bare shaft flight in terms of your form, grip and shot execution. I personally wouldn't make any judgement unless you are starting to see that pattern at closer ranges - and it's consistent shot to shot.

Try 25 yards first - still dead on, or close? Then move to 30, then 35, then 40. If a pattern develops and it's consistent - then you might have a spine issue, or a very slight tuning issue that wasn't showing itself at closer ranges. If it's not consistent - then you just found a pretty good tool to help you work on your form and doing things the same shot to shot.

Personally - I'm at the point where I can shoot 3 bareshafts at 40 - one might hit dead on, one might hit a little right, one might hit a foot left. It all comes down to how consistent I am.
Yeah but what explains an arrow that looks like it's well on it's way to hitting the target and THEN makes that abrupt turn to the right several yards before the target. The flight looked good until that last few yards. I guess I think that it wouldn't be a bow tuning issue but spine. I'm unsure though so that's why I asked. Ill try your suggestions, thanks.



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Finch

Finch

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Nevermind, I see you mentioned spine as well. I got hung up on your statement about form which I'm sure mine needs some work. Although, my pride sometimes gets in the way in admitting my flaws. :)

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theleo91386

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You're hitting a sticky note at 40 yards with your fletched arrows, what does it matter what the bare shaft does? See what your broad heads are doing that far and if they are having issues then maybe revisit bare shaft tuning. Also, one arrow/shot is a very poor data set to judge anything by.
 

Brendan

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It's not necessarily spine. An arrow might be just a hair off in terms of tune and leaving with perfect arrow flight, and start to go off target. You might not notice it yet at 20 because it's still within your margin of error, it still might be close at 30, but once it starts - it starts going even worse faster and faster with range.

I've had the same happen with me - and I am 100% certain I'm not weak spined - which points to a tune or a form issue.

What arrow and arrow spine are you shooting, point weight, insert weight, draw length, Bow & Bow IBO speed?
 

Brendan

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You're hitting a sticky note at 40 yards with your fletched arrows, what does it matter what the bare shaft does? See what your broad heads are doing that far and if they are having issues then maybe revisit bare shaft tuning. Also, one arrow/shot is a very poor data set to judge anything by.

It matters because it's a really good judge of how well your bow is tuned, and how consistent your form is. If you're a fan of just broadhead tune and forget it - that's fine, go for it. But don't criticize others who want to use it as a tuning tool to really get things dialed in so every broadhead shoots well out of their bow and every broadhead hits with their field points.

And - in my personal experience - I haven't yet had to make a change to get a bow broadhead tuned after bare shafts were flying perfect.
 

theleo91386

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It matters because it's a really good judge of how well your bow is tuned, and how consistent your form is. If you're a fan of just broadhead tune and forget it - that's fine, go for it. But don't criticize others who want to use it as a tuning tool to really get things dialed in so every broadhead shoots well out of their bow and every broadhead hits with their field points.

And - in my personal experience - I haven't yet had to make a change to get a bow broadhead tuned after bare shafts were flying perfect.
Actually the only part I was criticizing him on is that his data set is worthless. ONE bare shaft doing something weird on ONE shot proves nothing. Could be the Pomeranian next door farted while eating breakfast, could be a spine issue, could be a form issue, could be... without a consistent problem I wouldn't recommend he start messing with how his bow is tuned especially if his broad heads are grouping well and with his field points. The point also stands that from a hunting perspective (this is a sight geared towards hunting) that between bare shaft, fletched, and broad head arrow flight, the least practical to tune your bow to is bare shaft flight (especially if you think the bow is well tuned). Quire honestly I don't care how or what you tune your bow to. If it gives you confidence go for it. I was just pointing out at this point the OP has no reason to start with how his bow is tuned and he could be creating a headache for himself to judge his bow, arrows, or form based off of this ONE bare shaft shot.
 

mathews8pt

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You're hitting a sticky note at 40 yards with your fletched arrows, what does it matter what the bare shaft does? See what your broad heads are doing that far and if they are having issues then maybe revisit bare shaft tuning. Also, one arrow/shot is a very poor data set to judge anything by.

I kind of agree. I would screw broadheads on and see what happens. Bareshaft tuning is helpful but at that range you have to be VERY consistent and have pretty much a perfect tune for them to hit with fletched shafts. I think broadheads will tell you what you need to know if the tune is off or the rest needs bumped a tiny bit.
 
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Finch

Finch

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I didn't shoot another bareshaft for a couple reasons. One, I was pressed for time and had to go to an appt. Secondly, I didn't want to chance losing/breaking that arrow. The shot felt great but I realoze one arrow isn't enough. I do think it would happen again though.

I guess it depends on what broadheads i shoot if the result will be BHs hitting with FPs or not. Slick tricks seem to be really forgiving (smaller size I presume) than the muzzys i normally shoot. I'll have to shoot BHs when it cools down a bit and report back.

As far as my specs, I'm shooting a 29.75" Victory V-force V3 300 spined shaft with 125 gr head and standard insert (12 gr probably)

60/70 Elite E35 29" draw, set at 64 lbs, 317 to 320 IBO but unsure of current speed (no chrono).

Thanks

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2blade

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If you shoot right handed, more than likely it is to stiff. Try a heavier tip, 145/150gr should work, which weakens spine, and see what that does. There's also the possibility the bow isn't truly set to its center. Archers advantage says your close but it is a little to the stiff side, it says a 30.125" shaft with the 125gr head would be perfect.
 

5MilesBack

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Yeah but what explains an arrow that looks like it's well on it's way to hitting the target and THEN makes that abrupt turn to the right several yards before the target. The flight looked good until that last few yards. I guess I think that it wouldn't be a bow tuning issue but spine.

Not sure how spine would cause an otherwise straight arrow to suddenly veer off course either.

But spine-wise, you're over-spined if anything. I have some Victory Vforce V1 300's and they spine out and shoot fine even at 30" and 70lb and 32 1/2" draw.
 
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Finch

Finch

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Ok, thanks guys. I'll increase the draw weight a bit and give it another try.

My subscription ran out for Archers Advantage so thanks for running the numbers 2blade.



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Brendan

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Actually the only part I was criticizing him on is that his data set is worthless. ONE bare shaft doing something weird on ONE shot proves nothing.

Completely agree with you here. That's exactly why I said this:

At 40 yards - you need to be pretty much perfect to have consistent bare shaft flight in terms of your form, grip and shot execution. I personally wouldn't make any judgement unless you are starting to see that pattern at closer ranges - and it's consistent shot to shot.



The point also stands that from a hunting perspective (this is a sight geared towards hunting) that between bare shaft, fletched, and broad head arrow flight, the least practical to tune your bow to is bare shaft flight (especially if you think the bow is well tuned).

This, I disagree with you on. While this is a hunting site - there's a lot of people here who are really, really focused on getting themselves dialed in much more so than the "average" hunter. My opinion - using a bare shaft is the best and most practical way to get your bow tuned in, more forgiving, and yourself shooting better - once you get the hang of it. Agree with you that it might not be worthwhile for everyone, especially if it's not what you're used to - but if you want to spend the time on it, it flat out works.
 
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Brendan

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Ok, thanks guys. I'll increase the draw weight a bit and give it another try.

My subscription ran out for Archers Advantage so thanks for running the numbers 2blade.

Finch - don't want you chasing your tail. My opinion - Ignore the spine for now. Too stiff is not a problem like too weak. I personally shoot a 72lb bow, 28.5" draw with a 250 spine arrow around 28" and all the charts say I'm way, way stiff - and I can still get good flight when I do my part.

My bet is on your form, or your tune. Shoot at 25/30/35 yards looking for a repeatable pattern over a couple trips to the range before you do anything. When I get close to good flight - I might look for the same pattern over 2-3 different trips to the range first without making a change.
 

5MilesBack

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but if you want to spend the time on it, it flat out works.

It didn't for me. Last year I decided to take the time and BS tune my bow since I finally was shooting a bow with a yoke. I got that thing perfect. A couple rest adjustments and BS's were right there with fletched. A couple yoke adjustments and they were all touching with perfect angles. Could stack four BS's touching at 20 yards and even hitting the bullseye at 40.

Then 3D season rolled around last year. Worst scores I've ever shot, and couldn't figure out why. Shot summer league on the field courses and had NEVER had any issues shooting great accuracy at long range. For the first time in my life I was actually at a point where I was ready to get rid of the bow or even give up archery. It was the first time since starting archery that I felt like archery wasn't easy. It was like hitting the golf course and hitting shanks every shot.......very frustrating.

So summer came around and I decided to throw on a BH. Went back to 60 yards and it almost missed my 24" BH target.....right on the right edge. Given my shooting of late, I shot again and got the same result. So I did a quick BH tune and got that BH on the bullseye with my FP arrows after some quick rest adjustments. My shooting immediately improved, and I was back in business shooting my normal accuracy even back out to 100. BS's don't shoot all that great anymore, but everything else is spot on and 3D scores were back up this year where they should be.

Might be an anomoly with the BS tuning, but I'll never go that route again. I can stack arrows at any distance I shoot with a simple BH tune.
 

Brendan

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Can't tell you what's up there - my only guess would be you're a big dude and close on spine, right? Broadheads, and vanes can make a difference there if you're close to being weak, but only if you're close already. (Vanes stiffen dynamic spine slightly, removing them weakens, a broadhead will weaken dynamic spine slightly as compared to a field point)

All I can say is if I get my bow shooting bare shafts well - I haven't yet had to make an adjustment for broadheads. Throw on a big fixed blade, mechanical, small fixed blade - all hit right on with each other without broadhead tuning. Just witnessed the same thing with a friend earlier this week. He's never had broadheads and field points hit together - We bare shaft tuned his bow and he's dead on with fixed blades out to 60 - and I've never seen him shoot that well.

But - it brings up a good point. If it's not working for you - broadhead tune your bow, move on, and come back at another point if you want... I've had days where I feel like I'm going to pull my hair out because of the way I'm shooting and just have to walk away...

The other big benefit for me - I can BS tune at 7-10 yards in my basement, and have the bow pretty damn close before my first trip to the range - which is 25 minutes away because I live near the city.
 

doverpack12

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If you saw the arrow flight you probably didn't follow through correctly and pulled your head out or dropped/swung your bow arm out of the way. Either will have a drastic affect on your bareshaft. Try holding your pin on target until your arrows impact and do not look for the arrow in flight. When you walk up to the target you will know if every arrow is dead straight that you have good flight. I would say you are shooting pretty well and bow is tuned pretty well also. Bareshafts may not tell you a whole lot so possibly try a few broadheads and just see if they are perfect with field points or maybe they need a little adjusting the same direction as the bareshaft and in that case make some very minor adjustments. I will say you are not far off if you do need any adjustments. Remember to take some pictures, measurements and write everything down for where you are set up now so you can come back to it.
 

kicker338

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is spine indexing all arrows have a stiff side and weak side. Shoot an arrow with the stiff side either to the outside of the bow or to the inside can make a big difference. All my arrows are indexed, shooting the stiff side up, with bow tuned I can get a straight flight clear out to 30yds. Just for the fun of it I turned a bare shaft with the stiff side out, you should have seen that thing kick, almost missed the target.
 
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