Speed Improvement from reloading

[eroksolfe]

This is a rookie questions but is there a general rule for the speed improvement over factory loads you can expect from working up a custom load? Such as “with a proper worked up load you can safely expect 10% gain in speed”.

This assumes the goal is safe improvement of speed with the same bullet. Some sacrifice of barrow life would be acceptable. I’m sure there are a bunch of other caveats / assumptions I’m not including - asking for grace ahead of time.


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[Pickettpuncher]

In short, no. I’m sure there’s exceptions but even getting to book numbers can be challenging while maintaining accuracy.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Appreciate the question, and grace is granted. However here is the bottom line.

If you want your bullet to go faster, get a bigger cartridge case to push it.

Use the book and work up looking for pressure signs, are you familiar with that process? Please read about safe load development before you start and you will realize that question never needed to be asked.

There is no free lunch with respect to velocity going with the example you are talking about. 10% on 3000 fps would mean 3300 fps and a very large pressure increase. 2000 FPS would mean 2200 FPS. Either of those is a HUGE unsafe increase.

What you are proposing as a question is a nonstarter in reloading circles. It's flat dangerous with respect to reloading and safe practices.

 

[Carl Ross]

There definitely isn't a rule where you can expect a certain percentage of speed increase.

Pressure and velocity for a given chambering/bullet/powder combination are pretty well correlated. However, due to variations in your rifle such as throat length, bore diameter, and chamber volume along with lot to lot variations in the brass, powder, and bullets, it CAN take more or less powder to reach those speeds. Barrel length will also obviously effect velocity as well, if you don't have the same barrel length as was used in gathering the books data that would need to be accounted for.

So, if you have a mass produced factory rifle and are shooting mass produced factory ammo, you may find the realized velocity is significantly below what a book velocity for a given chambering/bullet combo. In that case, if you worked a handload until you reached book velocity you could safely pick up some speed. However, if factory ammo is in fact cruising along, there isn't anything to gain without running higher pressures, which comes with some risk on the low end and blown up rifles on the high end.

 

[menhaden_man]

I get faster speeds by loading longer... I have a 7RM shooting 168s at 3,150 FPS. Pretty sure there’s no factory ammo doing that.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I get faster speeds by loading longer... I have a 7RM shooting 168s at 3,150 FPS. Pretty sure there’s no factory ammo doing that.

What bullet and powder and OAL? No need to share the powder charge just curious on the other info.

 

[eroksolfe]

Thanks all for the feedback. It’s as much as I expected. My goal is not to cut corners to gain speed, rather to see if there are expected gains using the safe and accepted reloading practices. In the end, I’m trying to inform my decision of rifle caliber I want to buy. I like the concept of the 7RM and new 6.8 Western for elk sized game up to 600 yards with lower recoil than 300WM. However I’m trying to understand if it’s possible to further improve those calibers to be nearer to the 300WM in terms of energy with reloading. I’m planning on starting to reload no matter which rifle I get, just trying to understand the trade offs on caliber.


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[menhaden_man]

What bullet and powder and OAL? No need to share the powder charge just curious on the other info.

168 VLDs over Retumbo, Peterson Brass, and BR2 primers. This rifle is the newer Hells Canyon LR - I think it’s 1:8 twist and 26” barrel. 2.275” CBTO, I’ll have to check COAL in my notes later.

I was getting even faster loads with IMR4350 but wound up backing off that charge after talking to Berger. H100 wasn’t as accurate for me and H4831sc was accurate but not as fast. I’ve got around 300 shots recorded last summer, PM me and I’ll send more info.

 

[menhaden_man]

Thanks all for the feedback. It’s as much as I expected. My goal is not to cut corners to gain speed, rather to see if there are expected gains using the safe and accepted reloading practices. In the end, I’m trying to inform my decision of rifle caliber I want to buy. I like the concept of the 7RM and new 6.8 Western for elk sized game up to 600 yards with lower recoil than 300WM. However I’m trying to understand if it’s possible to further improve those calibers to be nearer to the 300WM in terms of energy with reloading. I’m planning on starting to reload no matter which rifle I get, just trying to understand the trade offs on caliber.


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That 7RM X Bolt is a beast, recoil is nothing compared to my old Model 70 in the same. Good luck.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

I’ve been reloading since my father started walking me through the process at age 12. That was longer ago than I care to discuss. I’ll agree with 99% of the guys that will respond to you.
As “a rule of thumb” can you expect to work a load up that has greater velocity than factory ammo? - Most likely.
Better question is, can you work a load up that has greater accuracy? - Absolutely if you spend the time and $.
I went through my speed and monster magnum phase like a lot of guys did. Killed a lot of antlered mammals with it. Now that I know my ballistic profile and dial, I don’t care what FPS I shoot. I just got a build put together that shoots less than 2700fps… with 1/4in MOA accuracy. Guess what happened when my 14 year old and I pulled the trigger this season? They fell down.
Good luck, reloading is the only way to go.

 

[rayporter]

there is a lot that has changed since everyone could afford a chronograph.

time was you could not believe any printed velocity.

when we got our first chronograph in the 70's a whole new world opened up. sam had just built a .270 and it was accurate as all get out. there was not a safe groundhog in ohio. then he found out it was only going about 2500 fps instead of what the book claimed. he promptly sold it he was so mad.

 

[35WhelenAI]

168 VLDs over Retumbo, Peterson Brass, and BR2 primers. This rifle is the newer Hells Canyon LR - I think it’s 1:8 twist and 26” barrel. 2.275” CBTO, I’ll have to check COAL in my notes later.

I was getting even faster loads with IMR4350 but wound up backing off that charge after talking to Berger. H100 wasn’t as accurate for me and H4831sc was accurate but not as fast. I’ve got around 300 shots recorded last summer, PM me and I’ll send more info.

Accounting for your 2" longer barrel, you're right in the ballpark with Retumbo in terms of Nosler data for that bullet weight, as I can't seem to find Berger data for a reference.

Seat it a bit longer like you do, adds a bit of useable case capacity, work up the load accordingly, sounds pretty good.

 

[menhaden_man]

Accounting for your 2" longer barrel, you're right in the ballpark with Retumbo in terms of Nosler data for that bullet weight, as I can't seem to find Berger data for a reference.

Seat it a bit longer like you do, adds a bit of useable case capacity, work up the load accordingly, sounds pretty good.

You ailed it... I was loading a bit over book max but the tech at Berger said it sounded about right for the length I was at (and extra capacity alleviates pressure, assuming you're not in the barrel).

 

[Tahoe1305]

I will go counter and say yes you can.

Check out the below article from Litz on Bergers website. Dig around there are a few of these. This is the first in a series. Its discussing loading long if your throat allows. In essence increases powder capacity and can safely get more velocity in some circumstances. Takes some equipment to measure throat and then you need to make sure your magazine can support it too.

There are some newer powders that are a bit faster as well (RL26 for example for some larger cases) that tend to be a bit faster than legacy powders.

Quick Load is a tool you can use to tinker with the numbers and see what is possible. It is only a tool. Garbage in garbage out.

Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO) - Part 1

Many shooters are not aware of the dramatic effects that bullet seating depth can have on the pressure and velocity generated by a rifle cartridge. COAL is also a variable that can be used to fine tune accuracy. It’s also an important consideration for rifles that need to feed rounds through a...

bergerbullets.com

Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO) - Part 2

The first half of this article focused on the importance of COAL in terms of SAAMI standards, magazine lengths, etc. There is another measure of length for loaded ammunition which is highly important to precision.

bergerbullets.com

I’ve had good success with this on a few different cartridges. 6.5G, 6.5C, 7WSM to name a few. It heavily depends on mag and throat length but if I push bullets out to .02” off lands I normally can get an extra 3-5% powder load in there before compression or pressure. This usually beats book numbers by 50-150fps or so. Not always the case.

In an essence though you are wildcatting a bit by adjusting OAL from SAAMI. Obviously you want to pay attention to pressure, start slow and understand what you are doing.

 

[35WhelenAI]

What were talking about now is different than the answering the question from the OP. I was not going to go there, because it seems he's just starting out.

However...

Below, I did this after years of experience and understanding the process to work up a load.

I have a 26" M70 300 Winchester Magnum with a long throat . Took the sheet metal filler out of the magazine box, shortened the bolt stop and it can digest full magnum length cartridges. Back in the day I was loading the Barnes 180 XBT which is a very long bullet (3.600" OAL). Worked up the load with IMR7828, got a bit more velocity (3080 fps) than a 180 gr factory rated load makes then or now.

I backed off a grain from what I considered a legit safe load, as don't want any issues in the field. As well, worked up the load in the summer and I hunt the fall/winter, which gives more margin due to lower temps.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

there is a lot that has changed since everyone could afford a chronograph.

time was you could not believe any printed velocity.

when we got our first chronograph in the 70's a whole new world opened up. sam had just built a .270 and it was accurate as all get out. there was not a safe groundhog in ohio. then he found out it was only going about 2500 fps instead of what the book claimed. he promptly sold it he was so mad.

Affirm. That’s what I’m talking about. You got a buddy who’s shooting the eyes out of every animal he points his rifle at. Then he finds out he’s shooting X-fps… and he’s pissed. Who cares. Shoot the eyes out of everything.

It’s fun to shoot through your chrono and see what it says. But you know what’s funner? Watching a buck/bull through your Leicas and you hear the unmistakable “sherrr whap” when your kid absolutely poll axes him.

Get the tightest group possible and then stock up on whatever combo you used.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Just retired my ProChrono, per se. New magneto speed sporter arrived last week. Most of my shooting is at an indoor range now and needed the upgrade.

Ordered mine from Midway USA, $179 and if I bought a $25 gift certificate at the same time as purchasing a magnetospeed, I got $25 off the magneto speed. A $154 magnetospeed, good deal IMO. That was a magnetospeed specific promotion as far as I know.

Turned around and used the gift certificate to buy some component bullets and got free shipping on that order over $49.

 

[eroksolfe]

Thanks again everyone. From what I gather the simple answer to my OP is “no” there is not rule of thumb but “yes” you can hotter develop loads if you know how to adjust the variables correctly and safely. (The Berger COAL article was very interesting and made a lot of sense).

At the same time though, it would seem most reloaders are looking more to maximize accuracy first. This could include increasing speed (to minimize wind drift among other factors) but is not necessarily required. Consistency of the round performance while generating close to the desired ballistics is the main thing. Seem accurate?


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[Pickettpuncher]

Thanks again everyone. From what I gather the simple answer to my OP is “no” there is not rule of thumb but “yes” you can hotter develop loads if you know how to adjust the variables correctly and safely. (The Berger COAL article was very interesting and made a lot of sense).

At the same time though, it would seem most reloaders are looking more to maximize accuracy first. This could include increasing speed (to minimize wind drift among other factors) but is not necessarily required. Consistency of the round performance while generating close to the desired ballistics is the main thing. Seem accurate?


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I think your assessment is spot on. You have the ability to tailor your loads to your needs. Depending on your needs, you could trade a little accuracy for speed, or speed for accuracy. But in the hunting world, most game won’t know the difference if the bullet started at 3200fps or 2900fps.

 

[Harvey_NW]

There is no rule of thumb, but the vague answer is usually yes because there are tons of powder choices with different burn rates that will allow you to increase your velocity. As stated, the trade off is often times accuracy. There are also barrels that are just slow and pressure out quick. IMHO the most beneficial gain to reloading is consistency. I used to have a hard on for velocity numbers, but I recently had a similar situation as mentioned above. I worked up a load for my new rifle and it hits everything I've pointed it at. That's way cooler than the 200fps faster I used to obsess over.