Theres no such thing as traditional

[William Sublette]

This is a continuation of a couple threads over the year. So's we don't hijack other conversations.

A colorful debate about the difference, or lack there of between so called traditional archery, and modern mechanical archery.


Take two beginners of equal hand eye coordination. Strengths, Fire in the belly, Etc etc


Give one a recurve
Give the other a compound


Outfit them both with same doodads releases sights etc. Or lack there of.


Make their holding weight at full draw the same.


Good, or bad their learning curves will match.





I disagree with the struggle stick trad requires years of practice mantra. Its repeated over, and over, and over.



My definition of maximum effective range, is however close you need to be to keep 5 out of 5 arrows on a paper plate in realistic hunting weather.



Apples, to apples there's no practical difference.




So, its just Archery. If your having trouble with recurves, and longbows, get a 25lb bow, with matching arrows, and see how fast you get good.

 

[Cheesehead]

Nah, it’s way harder

 

[Montana Slim]

You're saying maximum effective rangevwill be the same after a month of practice between a trad setup and a modern compound? I'll take that money...

You would see equality maybe at 10 or 15yds. As you move back, the compound shooter's accuracy and precision will be greater and greater than the trad shooter's.

If what you hypothesize is true, there would be no need for different classes of archery in competitions and you would see guys with self bows smoking the Olympians.

 

[Warmsy]

If draw weights were equal, like he said, and both were outfitted with a release, and both had sights, OP might have a point.

I bought a barebow and a compound within a month of each other 1 year ago. I couldn't hit my bag target with the recurve at 10 yards for at least a month. Bought the compound, was getting 1" groups at 60 yards in a month. The let off and pins helped me get the hang of archery. I havent touched the compound since December, shoot 100 arrows a day with the recurve, and in the last month I've finally got the recurve pretty well nailed down with 4" groups at 20-35 yards, and stacking arrows at 15.

Who shoots trad with a release? I still find the recurve to be more shaky and sensitive to perfect form.

 

[Warmsy]

And shit, with the compound you know exactly when you are at full draw. With a trad you have to practice and tweak ad astra to get anything close to consistent anchor, draw length, back tension.

 

[William Sublette]

You're saying maximum effective rangevwill be the same after a month of practice between a trad setup and a modern compound? I'll take that money...

You would see equality maybe at 10 or 15yds. As you move back, the compound shooter's accuracy and precision will be greater and greater than the trad shooter's.

If what you hypothesize is true, there would be no need for different classes of archery in competitions and you would see guys with self bows smoking the Olympians.

Yeah, close but not quite.

I'm disagreeing with the always repeated notion that it takes forever to get good with "traditional" gear.



The holding weight at full draw , and the doodads are the only difference.

Make the compound shooter, use fingers, and shoot barebow, with 10% let off, and now his learning curve is pretty similar.




Yes after they find their form, the doodas, and fps will outpace the traditional gear. But the recurve guy could pick up a compound and hang right with it. Its just archery.

Before 3d shoots and compounds there was nafaa, and fita rounds, to be competitive in those you had to be dialed at 80 yds, 70 meters, 90 meters.



When I hit the powerball I'm going to hire someone who's never seen a bow, and show them they can be hunting ready in a month.

 

[Bmoore]

I watched a John Dudley video a few years back where he took a friend who had never shot before and basically had him consistant at 20 yards within a day. I think that timeframe is expediated because of the quality of teacher and the fact that the student had no bad habits to break first. But it does show that a compound bow can be tamed fairly quickly. I don’t know if there’s any instance where a person could go from zero to consistant with a trad bow in that kinda time frame at any range. It’s just a whole different game.
No disrespect to OP but I think there’s a reason Trad archery has a reputation. It’s because it’s well deserved. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Bmoore]

Yeah, close but not quite.

I'm disagreeing with the always repeated notion that it takes forever to get good with "traditional" gear.



The holding weight at full draw , and the doodads are the only difference.

Make the compound shooter, use fingers, and shoot barebow, with 10% let off, and now his learning curve is pretty similar.




Yes after they find their form, the doodas, and fps will outpace the traditional gear. But the recurve guy could pick up a compound and hang right with it. Its just archery.

Before 3d shoots and compounds there was nafaa, and fita rounds, to be competitive in those you had to be dialed at 80 yds, 70 meters, 90 meters.



When I hit the powerball I'm going to hire someone who's never seen a bow, and show them they can be hunting ready in a month.

I get the notion, but isn’t that the point in the first place? A compound is technologically advanced compared to traditional gear. So it’s a different learning curve. In some ways your comparing apples and oranges and basically saying that if you took all the technological advances that a compound affords the shooter away they would be at the same pace as traditional. Which is fair, but that’s because you just turned the compound bow into a trad bow by removing all the things that make a compound a compound.

 

[Bmoore]

I’m not saying compounds are easy either. I’m currently dealing with some serious target panic and I’m trying to work through it. My groups even at 20 are seriously lacking. But I still think it’s an easier process than a trad bow to get started.

 

[Beendare]

WS, That is a ridiculous statement.....


......and anyone that has shot both stick bows and compounds for any length of time knows it.

_____

 

[Billy Goat]

I have taken someone never shooting a compound before and had them hitting 4-5" groups at 20 yards in an hour or two.

Now if you want to make a compound a traditional bow and remove the release aid, remove the sights, then yes I would agree that the learning curve is similar. However generally when referencing a trad bow you are talking barebow, never when someone is talking about a compound would I think they are referring to barebow unless they reference that.

True stick shooters take years to hone their craft. Most still have an effective range of 1/2-1/3 the distance of a compound shooter.

 

[oldgoat]

And shit, with the compound you know exactly when you are at full draw. With a trad you have to practice and tweak ad astra to get anything close to consistent anchor, draw length, back tension.

This! If you want to find out how good and repeatable or bad and unrepeatable your form is, throw a sight on a trad bow!

 

[Warmsy]

I'm going to try that. Thanks!

 

[William Sublette]

WS, That is a ridiculous statement.....


......and anyone that has shot both stick bows and compounds for any length of time knows it.

_____

Ok we disagree.

But, if you handed a stick bow to someone without any access to the internet, or hunting magazines, the only limit to their proficiency would be be their imagination.


If they were hungry, it wouldn’t take much time at all to be hunting proficiently.

 

[Warmsy]

Ok we disagree.

But, if you handed a stick bow to someone without any access to the internet, or hunting magazines, the only limit to their proficiency would be be their imagination.


If they were hungry, it wouldn’t take much time at all to be hunting proficiently.

This guy is trolling. There's no way! Having freshly experienced the frustrations and Joy's off becoming fairly good at barebbnow, the internet was absolutely key in my current proficiency. I only know one other person who shoots, occasionally, and we're 2 hours from anywhere with archery store or range, and no local coaches. Because of the videos and articles that people so graciously upload, I found a hobby/ skill for life.

 

[Kentucky]

I shot compound for years. Killed lots of local critters. 60 yards were chip shots. 90% of all my deer were within 20 yards when I shot them. I switched to trad.

The learning curve was huge. Still not 100% sure I could hold it together enough for a shot on a big buck at 30 with trad bow.


I understand you hypothetical situation. But modern compounds and modern trad gear are still so far apart you can’t compare.

If you took a sole modern compound shooter and a sol trad shooter, and gave them a compound from the early 80s, set it to 50#, no sights, shooting fingers... trad guy wins easy.

not knocking compound hunters, but the onlyrhi G that separates a modern compound and a cross bow is the strength it takes to draw it back. Everything else is just like shooting a rifle.. steady hold, easy on the trigger..

Or maybe I’m just archery profiling..

 

[FLS]

I have a compound setup to shoot barebow with fingers. That used to actually be a thing. IMO its much easier to shoot accurately than my recurve. Let off, it’s 60%, makes a huge difference, as does the increase in speed. Easier to tune, easier to shoot, easier everything.
Add sights and a release and the only thing they have in common is launching arrows.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

If that were an accurate statement you'd see the number of compound vs stick bow shooters being much more equal. There's a reason the numbers are lopsided toward the compound....it's called instant gratification.

 

[LostArra]

A colorful debate about the difference, or lack there of between so called traditional archery, and modern mechanical archery.

If there is no such thing as traditional archery is there truly a thing called modern compound archery?

 

[Billy Goat]

If that were an accurate statement you'd see the number of compound vs stick bow shooters being much more equal. There's a reason the numbers are lopsided toward the compound....it's called instant gratification.

I don't think it's instant gratification, it's just two totally different things. I'm into accuracy. This year was the first year for a perfect 900 Vegas with an Olympic bow. That still has sights and everything. It has happened multiple times in open class with compounds.

Yes you can be shooting a compound faster, so that is maybe some instant gratification, but I just prefer the accuracy of the compound. I do hunt with my .357 some during firearms season, but I still generally go towards my 300 wby or 7rm etc. Two different things.