White Cloud Outfitters

[Idaboy]

Outfitters have lobbiest that push for regs and special interests.. They are basically getting special consideration for commercial work on public land...they get to erect camp sites on national forest that the rest of us no way in hell would get to do. I don't know these guys but I do know 2 current outfitters who run exclusively on public land, and a former outfitter who used to run a large operation. I have no axe to grind, but yes they pay for stuff, but also get to do things on public land the rest of us do not, thus when they break the law, which is clear and plain, I don't have any sympathy....this case is not just about a guide that crossed by accident into the wrong drainage.....

SDHNTR, it not like they pulled a permit to rent the local park and a party got out of hand... It's big money with strict rules for good reason. Have you ever wondered why a nonRes can't hunt on WY wilderness?

 

[Idaboy]

Haha. Tough guy.

I got no dog in this fight. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not supporting the guy. Sounds like he broke some rules. It just seems the rules are lame to begin with.

Why are the rules lame?

 

[dtrkyman]

I would be interested in the clients position, if those guys are guilty of all those charges the clients hunted illegally, unknowingly or not it would be a problem.

I am sure they will sing like a canary and get off light if they had no knowledge of the situation.

I worked for a shady outfitter back in the day, many clients were directly involved in some of the issues and as guilty as the outfitter! I only guided archery and knew sort of what was going on with gun hunts, I guided one of the shady clients for years and made him show his license in tags before he hunted with me each year, all the BS was on the gun hunts!

 

[Steve O]

It this is sad to hear. I hunted with Mike 20 years ago, I never would have expected to read any of this.

 

[sneaky]

Money makes people do crazy things

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[SDHNTR]

No one sane would knowingly be as blatant as alleged in these articles. Let the guy have his day in court.

 

[TheTone]

I see. Jurisdictional BS.

Not really; it’s probably one of the best things idaho has going regarding outfitting. Keeps a bunch of fly by night wannabes out and limits the number of outfitters people have to deal with on the landscape

 

[Idaboy]

No one sane would knowingly be as blatant as alleged in these articles. Let the guy have his day in court.

Will be interesting, but the articles basically reiterate the legal filing.

 

[Idaho_Potato]

Anyone know why unit 19 is off limits to guides? The article says they were in the center of 19, which is the Gospel Hump wilderness area. I’m assuming they allow guides in the other wilderness areas with all of the fly in hunts going on in the Frank Church.

Also unsettling that GPS locations are being used as evidence. Good reminder that if you have electronics on you in the back country you are being monitored.

 

[TheTone]

Anyone know why unit 19 is off limits to guides? The article says they were in the center of 19, which is the Gospel Hump wilderness area. I’m assuming they allow guides in the other wilderness areas with all of the fly in hunts going on in the Frank Church.

Also unsettling that GPS locations are being used as evidence. Good reminder that if you have electronics on you in the back country you are being monitored.

Search I just ran showed 6 outfitters licensed for sheep in unit 19; but not the ones being discussed.

I haven’t read all the docs but I would guess gps locations were obtained through search warrants

Edit to add: I’m guessing they don’t mean unit 19 but a defined outfitting operating area numbered 19 Not sure why it would be off limits to outfitters but it seems to pretty well lay out they were told no multiple times, did it anyway and lied about it

 

[dtrkyman]

I mean if your gonna poach maybe turn off all of your devices that track your location. DUH!

 

[sneaky]

Anyone know why unit 19 is off limits to guides? The article says they were in the center of 19, which is the Gospel Hump wilderness area. I’m assuming they allow guides in the other wilderness areas with all of the fly in hunts going on in the Frank Church.

Also unsettling that GPS locations are being used as evidence. Good reminder that if you have electronics on you in the back country you are being monitored.

Hunt area 19, not Unit 19. It's a designation for outfitted areas, not a game unit

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[westernarcher]

I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to find outfitter areas that are numbered. I’ve found maps of their areas. But nothing suggesting areas. Only gmu numbers

 

[Idaho_Potato]

I don’t know the back story but sounds like bureaucratic BS to me. I’m usually the first one to say throw the book at poachers, especially guides who poach, but this is a jurisdictional matter, not poaching. No animals were killed out of season, or killed only for trophy purposes, or baited where baiting is banned, or used aerial surveillance, etc. This is all just federal over complication of rules that don’t need to be this complicated. This sounds like a potential paper pushing offense, not an egregious wildlife violation. I don’t understand how the Lacey act is relevant in this case. Isn’t that an interstate commerce provision prohibiting sale of illegally taken animals? I don’t see any of that here.

“Paper pushing offense” or otherwise, when you mess around with the Feds you are operating under FAFO rules. Up to 5 years locked in a cage and $250,000 fine. Agree with it or not, they knowingly broke those silly little rules put in place by a federal agency. And it sounds like OnX or some other hunting app handed over the evidence to convict them.

 

[downthepipe]

I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to find outfitter areas that are numbered. I’ve found maps of their areas. But nothing suggesting areas. Only gmu numbers

The IOGLB the Idaho outfitters and guides licensing board should have something. But every outfitter operating on federal lands also has use permits and agreements with Forest Srrvice or BLM.

 

[mtnbiker208]

The power of sheep are amazing. From throwing your business away to taking loans out for sheep hunting.

 

[sneaky]

“Paper pushing offense” or otherwise, when you mess around with the Feds you are operating under FAFO rules. Up to 5 years locked in a cage and $250,000 fine. Agree with it or not, they knowingly broke those silly little rules put in place by a federal agency. And it sounds like OnX or some other hunting app handed over the evidence to convict them.

I would say a subpoena was involved for information, and their InReach messages with location information sunk their battleship.

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[TyWeimer]

Anybody have any interactions, or hunted around these 2 guys?

Ran into Farr several times in the last few seasons. Never would have expected to see this based on the perception and interactions I got with him. Money and greed is my guess. Interested to see where this goes