Why are people cutting barrels off

[Marble]

Can you show me anything that proves 40-100fps loss per inch?


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No, I can't. I'm sure if you read reloading books from back in the day, you would find some guesses. I think it's probably something fairly difficult to prove scientifically. From the literature I've read, it generally is around 50 fps. But like I said, in either direction, diminishing returns occur fairly fast. I have seen velocities vary wildly between similar gun, identical loads and different barrel lengths. But comparing one gun to another isn't really a fair comparison. But after 30 years of watching the difference over and over, I've gotten a good idea on what to expect.

I've also noticed some barrel brands are faster and are known to be faster in general. I can't explain why.

From my own reloading since the early 90s, I have seen a predictable correlation between barrel length and velocity. I don't think anyone here will doesn't believe a longer barrel will create more velocity. I think it's more of a question of what you gain or loose with shorter or longer barrels.


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[Marbles]

No, I can't. I'm sure if you read reloading books from back in the day, you would find some guesses. I think it's probably something fairly difficult to prove scientifically. From the literature I've read, it generally is around 50 fps. But like I said, in either direction, diminishing returns occur fairly fast. I have seen velocities vary wildly between similar gun, identical loads and different barrel lengths. But comparing one gun to another isn't really a fair comparison. But after 30 years of watching the difference over and over, I've gotten a good idea on what to expect.

I've also noticed some barrel brands are faster and are known to be faster in general. I can't explain why.

From my own reloading since the early 90s, I have seen a predictable correlation between barrel length and velocity. I don't think anyone here will doesn't believe a longer barrel will create more velocity. I think it's more of a question of what you gain or loose with shorter or longer barrels.


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here are some sources on the same barrel cut one inch at a time.

Going from 27-16 inches with a 6.5 CM

6.5 Creedmoor- Effect of Barrel Length on Velocity: Cutting up a Creedmoor!

Since its introduction by Hornady in 2007, the 6.5 Creedmoor (sometimes shortened to Creed) has established a strong foothold in the US rifle market. The 6.5 Creedmoor balances the excellent exter…

rifleshooter.com

Going from 26-17 inches with a 6.5 CM

6.5 Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019

“We do it right because we do it twice!”Greg Wagner, Wildlife Photographer Background The 6.5 Creedmoor has become one of the most popular center-fire cartridges in the precision rifle …

rifleshooter.com

Going from 28 to 16.5 inches with a 308

308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28″ to 16.5″)

308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28″ to 16.5″) Introduction Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO), the 308 Wi…

rifleshooter.com

Going from 30 to 17 inches with a 338 Lapua

338 Lapua Magnum: Barrel Length Versus Muzzle Velocity (30-17 inches)

338 Lapua Magnum: Barrel Length Versus Muzzle Velocity One of the decisions we make when we build or buy a rifle is how long the barrel should be. Like everything else in life, barrel length is a …

rifleshooter.com

Going from 26 to 6 inches with a 223

223 Remington/ 5.56mm NATO barrel length and velocity: 26 inches to 6 inches

Have you ever wondered how much barrel length effects muzzle velocity on your rifle? Well I did, so I cut up rifles chambered in 223 Remington, 308 Winchester, 7 mm Remington Magnum and 300 Winche…

rifleshooter.com

Those results show it is certainly possible to loose 100 fps with cutting one inch, but more often than not one is loosing closer to 30 fps per inch.

 

[dieselchessy]

I’m pretty sure Panther is right unless physics change for these situations. I was just running numbers for a buddy considering cutting down a 300WM. You do lose velocity but if the other factors are constant, you are also losing recoil energy.

How much barrel you figure on cutting off to lose 200fps velocity? And how did you remove that much barrel and still have the rifle weigh the same?
I’m thinking rifle weight wouldn’t be a constant when loping off chunks of steel from a rifle.

 

[DisplacedHusky]

How much barrel you figure on cutting off to lose 200fps velocity? And how did you remove that much barrel and still have the rifle weigh the same?
I’m thinking rifle weight wouldn’t be a constant when loping off chunks of steel from a rifle.

I already had the photos on my phone from when I was doing an estimate for my buddy of chopping 6” off his 300WM and getting a 200 fps loss. I was guesstimating that his 6” suppressor would weigh roughly the same as the last 6” of his barrel. The suppressor would also tame some recoil in his build but I was just throwing out the numbers on this thread for those who believe that a shorter barrel means more recoil.

Here are the numbers with a half pound loss for the chopped barrel. And here is where I got the 200fps loss from 6”. The loss of recoil energy is minor but chopping a barrel definitely does not add recoil.

300 Winchester Magnum: How Does Barrel Length Change Velocity- A 16″ 300 Win Mag?

Introduced by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1963, the 300 Winchester Magnum (300 Win Mag) is based on the 375 H&H case shortened to fit a standard length action and necked down to 30…

rifleshooter.com

 

[dieselchessy]

Growing up all I shot was a 20" barrel 308. Shortly after college I hunted with a 24" 338. Found out I didn't need the recoil or the barrel length for what I do. Half my hunting rifles are cut at 16" and none of the remaining are longer than 24".

I do find it funny when someone says "my 300 WM is good to kill out to 1K yards" with such and such bullet. Then when asked if a 308 win would kill at 700 yards they say no way no how. Not realizing the impact velocity (as well as the meaningless ft/lbs) are exactly the same in both scenarios.

I prefer short barrel rifles and have been cutting my barrels down for the past 12 years and hunting suppressed the last 6 years. Doesn't mean its the only way to fly, just means I prefer shorter handier rifles that still work for my needs.

I always just ask the folks at what distance do they think a standard 30-30 load is good for elk. I get answers anywhere from 100 to 200+ yards. But most everyone will agree a 30-30 150 or 170 grain is good for elk to at least 100 yards.

So then anything with comparable or greater energy or velocity (take your pic or use both) at impact should be good, right?

 

[dieselchessy]

I already had the photos on my phone from when I was doing an estimate for my buddy of chopping 6” off his 300WM and getting a 200 fps loss. I was guesstimating that his 6” suppressor would weigh roughly the same as the last 6” of his barrel. The suppressor would also tame some recoil in his build but I was just throwing out the numbers on this thread for those who believe that a shorter barrel means more recoil.

Here are the numbers with a half pound loss for the chopped barrel. And here is where I got the 200fps loss from 6”. The loss of recoil energy is minor but chopping a barrel definitely does not add recoil.

300 Winchester Magnum: How Does Barrel Length Change Velocity- A 16″ 300 Win Mag?

Introduced by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1963, the 300 Winchester Magnum (300 Win Mag) is based on the 375 H&H case shortened to fit a standard length action and necked down to 30…

rifleshooter.com

So with the guesstimate of weight loss added in it looks like recoil reduced very minimally. Probably imperceptibly to the shooter. But muzzle blast would increase significantly, likely increasing the perception of recoil.

Notice that in your linked article the author describes muzzle blast and recoil increasing noticeably. Authors perception…was cutting a fat barrel and dropping significant weight though.

 

[Wrench]

Much of the problem with estimates on velocity is in the data collection.

We all hear about the 3fps deviation guns....but rarely see them. Then add in the fact that we're looking for sub 1% information on a device that has at least that much error tolerance.

 

[KsRancher]

Growing up all I shot was a 20" barrel 308. Shortly after college I hunted with a 24" 338. Found out I didn't need the recoil or the barrel length for what I do. Half my hunting rifles are cut at 16" and none of the remaining are longer than 24".

I do find it funny when someone says "my 300 WM is good to kill out to 1K yards" with such and such bullet. Then when asked if a 308 win would kill at 700 yards they say no way no how. Not realizing the impact velocity (as well as the meaningless ft/lbs) are exactly the same in both scenarios.

I prefer short barrel rifles and have been cutting my barrels down for the past 12 years and hunting suppressed the last 6 years. Doesn't mean its the only way to fly, just means I prefer shorter handier rifles that still work for my needs.

That right there is what I was talking about. Reading about the 300 WM and the capability distances and then reading that 400yds is pretty much the limit on elk for the 308win I just couldn't understand it. Just like you pointed out. The 300wm at 1000yd with a 178gr is almost the exact same as the 308win at 700yds.

 

[KsRancher]

The reason it feels like you get a concussion from it, mostly is because you do. The pressure from that brake is not good for you. Also, plugs and muffs aren't directly additive. I'm not aware of any single or combination of hearing protection that can make it safe to shoot something like a braked 300rum. You get hearing damage every time.

If I was going to use a 308 to hunt elk at max range, I'd buy some lapua SRP brass and run it at 65kpsi with a 150gr badlands BD2 from an 18in barrel, suppressed. Effective range is about 450y.

My Rem 700 300RUM with a pile of new brass, some used, 140 rounds of factory ammo, H1000 powder and reloading dies will be showing up in the classifieds soon if you know anyone looking.

 

[hereinaz]

That right there is what I was talking about. Reading about the 300 WM and the capability distances and then reading that 400yds is pretty much the limit on elk for the 308win I just couldn't understand it. Just like you pointed out. The 300wm at 1000yd with a 178gr is almost the exact same as the 308win at 700yds.

Magical thinking… that’s truly what happens.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I don’t have a clue why someone would want to
imo unless doing special treatment reloading , a overbored rifle needs a 24-26 inch barrel under those it’s just a handicap especially when you shoot factory loads
a .243win is a 3 legged dog @ 20 inches

 

[luke moffat]

I don’t have a clue why someone would want to
imo unless doing special treatment reloading , a overbored rifle needs a 24-26 inch barrel under those it’s just a handicap especially when you shoot factory loads
a .243win is a 3 legged dog @ 20 inches

For me getting 30-06 performance out of a 300 WSM in a much shorter package is reason enough. I fully realize that might seem like a waste to some. But never feels like a waste when doing to struggle through the alders. But I'm a wimp like that.

 

[prm]

I want to kick it. Not to argue about it. But ask questions about. I have a 300RUM and a 308win. The 300 shoots great but I hate shooting it. It has a brake on it. Even with plugs and muffs to stop the sound, it feels like you get a concussion from the blowback. I am either going to cut it off or sell the gun. Thinking about selling the gun anyway and spending the money on another 308 and getting a nice scope on it. If I do that I would like to be able to effectively kill an elk at longer range. How far would you shoot an elk with a 308 if you could pick your bullet. And before anyone goes to railing on me. I try to get as close as I can. But sometimes the right shot is present at the right time and place.

Figure out the muzzle velocity required to get a 155 Scenar to the target at ~1900-2000 fps at your desired range and you’ll have AN answer. Run the numbers at the elevation where you’ll be hunting elk. Doesn’t take a lot of MV to get pretty far out there.

 

[mtwarden]

Holy hell, one wouldn't think there would be that much contention on barrel length

I don't think anyone is arguing that a longer barrel won't yield more velocity vs a shorter one; the question is do you really need a longer barrel for the task at hand. I certainly don't, that's why my hunting (not benchrest, not competition, not range) rifles have shorter barrels. If you need a longer barrel for the hunting you do, then by all means certainly choose a longer barrel.

 

[willfrye027]

Did some google searching and finding for unbraked, no suppressor short barrels I the 18-20in range are like 6DB louder than a 24-26”. That’s a lot. I notice it when shooting with my wife who has a 20” 6.5 creed and her youth 20ga. I guess I am noise sensitive but really hate shooting those guns!

This is of course not a factor if shooting suppressed, but not everyone out there has one

 

[hereinaz]

I don’t have a clue why someone would want to
imo unless doing special treatment reloading , a overbored rifle needs a 24-26 inch barrel under those it’s just a handicap especially when you shoot factory loads
a .243win is a 3 legged dog @ 20 inches

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion that the 24-26 is the "optimal" length for the barrel/cartridge combo. But, that isn't everything for hunting. That opinion prioritizes and focuses on the cartridge and barrel length for efficiency. There are many others don't think like that. For me, that focuses too much on the efficiency of the rifle and less on the complete purpose of the rifle.

If the purpose of a rifle is to spit out bullets to kill stuff, then all that matters is the velocity when the bullet hits the critter. This puts more on the table to consider beyond cartridge/barrel efficiency.

If we can make rifles shorter, lighter, and quieter, isn't that the ultimate "optimization" of the complete rifle system? All that also leads to the use of smaller calibers with less recoil, because we also know more about terminal ballistics now.

Those of us who go with a short barrel often choose a bullet and a max range, and then pick the cartridge/barrel length that will get me what I want. We might "leave velocity on the table" but we didn't want the velocity and it doesn't matter for our purpose.

Suppressors have obviously affected the length of barrels, because they add length but they also tame muzzle blast that made short barrel rifles unpleasant.

 

[Amos Keeto]

While I like the idea of suppressed, I don't like the hoops you have to jump through to get a SBR permit and suppressor license! Again, just my OFS!
As it is, my 16" AR is perfect in a box blind or still hunting.

I love my 6.8 SPC. I run a suppressed 12.5".

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[Hnthrdr]

Some of these weight reduction proponents (for chopping) are probably in the 6.5 Creedmor, less recoil, crowd favored by the women and feeble old men.

I guess im a feeble old woman… I shoot a 6.5 and I like it!

 

[hereinaz]

I guess im a feeble old woman… I shoot a 6.5 and I like it!

RS is all about us feeble old ladies going in the backcountry with tiny rifles shooting tiny cartridges cause we need to save 60 grains of weight for every 12 rounds, and ounces for every inch we cut off the barrel. Makes up for the extra weight from our purses snd suppressors.

All that just to get away from all the macho man road hunters with 300 boomers.

 

[Hnthrdr]

RS is all about us feeble old ladies going in the backcountry with tiny rifles shooting tiny cartridges cause we need to save 60 grains of weight for every 12 rounds, and ounces for every inch we cut off the barrel. Makes up for the extra weight from our purses snd suppressors.

All that just to get away from all the macho man road hunters with 300 boomers.

I mean I’m such an old feeble lady and hate recoil so much I typically hunt with a bow… but when I do grab a shootin iron it better not boom or recoil on me, people don’t realize how convenient purses are for conceal carrying and it is really such a shame