Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[Rob5589]

Non-residents are losing 2/3 of the moose tags under a 90/10 proposal. Not everyone is in this for a trophy. Some just want a cow moose. This proposal would effectively mean that close to 10,000 of the 10,700 preference point holders would never draw a moose tag in their lifetime.

If that is the case, I would think it completely reasonable for the state to offer refunds to those that want one. 10000 out of 10700 being unable to draw within a lifetime sounds a bit like a scam IMO.

While nobody is guaranteed a tag, they certainly had a reasonable expectation of drawing a tag at some point in their life. Nobody is paying for points if there is no chance of drawing in their lifetime. I understand that changes occur over many years or even decades but, eliminating ~94% of those that have invested potentially thousands of dollars and decades of time is, wrong, to put it mildly.

 

[wapitibob]

If that is the case, I would think it completely reasonable for the state to offer refunds to those that want one. 10000 out of 10700 being unable to draw within a lifetime sounds a bit like a scam IMO.

While nobody is guaranteed a tag, they certainly had a reasonable expectation of drawing a tag at some point in their life. Nobody is paying for points if there is no chance of drawing in their lifetime.

Better look at the demand reports; there are thousands of NR applying for Sheep or Moose that failed basic math and are applying with no chance of drawing on points in their lifetime. There are currently 11,000+ nr with Sheep points, only about 2,000 actually applied, and last year there were 6 tags issued on points.

 

[BBob]

Better look at the demand reports; there are thousands of NR applying for Sheep or Moose that failed basic math and are applying with no chance of drawing on points in their lifetime.

They do it an AZ all the time, not a few but a lot. Throwing $$ away. Crazy!

 

[204guy]

If that is the case, I would think it completely reasonable for the state to offer refunds to those that want one. 10000 out of 10700 being unable to draw within a lifetime sounds a bit like a scam IMO.

While nobody is guaranteed a tag, they certainly had a reasonable expectation of drawing a tag at some point in their life. Nobody is paying for points if there is no chance of drawing in their lifetime. I understand that changes occur over many years or even decades but, eliminating ~94% of those that have invested potentially thousands of dollars and decades of time is, wrong, to put it mildly.

Some of you guys REALLY need to inform yourself before throwing your opinion out there.

I'm pretty neutral on all this but the emotional uninformed comments are cringe worthy.

Good to know that general tags suck though. Actually strengthens the resident point of view. Most of you would shit if you new the average score of the last 6 gen bulls I killed. Better than the 2 lq bulls I've killed.

 

[tdhanses]

Hey taxpayer. c'mon out and enjoy your federal lands. Just don't shoot any of our animals or catch any of our fish. Stay home and hunt elk.

Guess what I’m coming in Aug and Oct, we’ll be pumping over $$ into the Jackson and Pinedale area and yup elk and fish will be harmed. But after this year we may just go to MT, like Buzz I can get tags every year without having to draw.

 

[tdhanses]

Do you realize how ignorant you sound. So tell me how much you advocate for NR in your state. Do tell....

I love NR coming to KS and think everyone should, tags are easier to get then WY tags, we have hardly any public land but have opened up thousands of acres that are private to residents and NR.

You know why I am pro NR coming to KS, I’m not a hypocrite, I’m a NR for 75% of my hunting each year. I also think it would be silly to give residents 15 tags yet limit NR opportunities.

Quick question, would you prefer your state manage for trophy quality or herd health?

 

[slick]

Let the PP measuring contest begin.


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[CorbLand]

Let the PP measuring contest begin.


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If that is what it is going to come down to. I lose.

 

[Laramie]

Better look at the demand reports; there are thousands of NR applying for Sheep or Moose that failed basic math and are applying with no chance of drawing on points in their lifetime. There are currently 11,000+ nr with Sheep points, only about 2,000 actually applied, and last year there were 6 tags issued on points.

Bob, I agree with you completely. Many people have been literally throwing their money away for some time. However, many of us got in the game early enough to expect an opportunity to draw in our lifetime.

Some of you guys REALLY need to inform yourself before throwing your opinion out there.

I'm pretty neutral on all this but the emotional uninformed comments are cringe worthy.

Good to know that general tags suck though. Actually strengthens the resident point of view. Most of you would shit if you new the average score of the last 6 gen bulls I killed. Better than the 2 lq bulls I've killed.

He was completely informed as he was referring to my comment about moose, not elk and certainly not general tags. Easy on the trigger...

 

[tdhanses]

Better look at the demand reports; there are thousands of NR applying for Sheep or Moose that failed basic math and are applying with no chance of drawing on points in their lifetime. There are currently 11,000+ nr with Sheep points, only about 2,000 actually applied, and last year there were 6 tags issued on points.

That’s crazy, guess they have to hope some will just stop applying and WY is just laughing on their way to the bank

Really though WY needs to change something, maybe a system more like CO for these tags that are so limited yet have such a large desire to obtain. If it stays highest pt holder wins only, about 95% of people need to stop buying or applying as they’ll never have a chance anyway.

Maybe WY should stop allowing those that fall within the 95% from further applying and transfer their pts to elk, deer or antelope. And reopen it in 40 years once current pt holders dwindle away.

 

[Laramie]

Nope...

Current splits on moose are 80-20 and current splits on sheep are 75-25....can't be the same percentage for both. 50% of moose and 60% of sheep.

Buzz, you know that isn't accurate. If the state goes to 90/10, non-residents won't end up with 10% of the permits. For a non-resident to have an opportunity to draw a tag for an area, that area has to have at least 10 permits available. For any area with a quota lower than 10, no tag would be offered to a non-resident. So for sheep, using last years quotas, non-residents would be limited to 12 tags under the new proposal. That is down from 45 permits offered last year. That equates to almost a 75% reduction in sheep.

I have already done the math for moose previously in this thread and it is almost 70%. 22 tags vs 65 tags

I can understand why you don't want to list accurate information but some of us do understand the system.

 

[204guy]

Bob, I agree with you completely. Many people have been literally throwing their money away for some time. However, many of us got in the game early enough to expect an opportunity to draw in our lifetime.


He was completely informed as he was referring to my comment about moose, not elk and certainly not general tags. Easy on the trigger...

I understand you're trying to present your argument favorably but the reality is, 10,000 of those 10740 point holders are likely to die before drawing a tag whether the allocation changes or not. Looks like there's currently 5 random moose tags?

The rest of my comments where just about the thread in general.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, you know that isn't accurate. If the state goes to 90/10, non-residents won't end up with 10% of the permits. For a non-resident to have an opportunity to draw a tag for an area, that area has to have at least 10 permits available. For any area with a quota lower than 10, no tag would be offered to a non-resident. So for sheep, using last years quotas, non-residents would be limited to 12 tags under the new proposal. That is down from 45 permits offered last year. That equates to almost a 75% reduction in sheep.

I have already done the math for moose previously in this thread and it is almost 70%. 22 tags vs 65 tags

I can understand why you don't want to list accurate information but some of us do understand the system.

Did you BOTHER to read?

CURRENT splits.

I also understand what was in the bill, but I believe that will have to be changed as CURRENTLY, the allocations are based on total tags. In some cases, NR's receive 100% of a district allocation of sheep tags, or 50% in areas that offer only 2 tags.

You're also making the assumption that under the proposed bill that the Commission would have still offered 10% of the TOTAL sheep licenses issued to NR. I saw NOTHING in that bill that stated otherwise.

Your math MAY be right, IF, the areas with less than 10 tags were totally excluded on a statewide NR allocation. The way I read the bill, the 10% would have been based on a statewide total, including tag numbers in the areas with less than 10 tags issued.

There were some questions that need to be addressed...there will be a lot of people looking at and clarifying some of these issues.

90-10 in some form is going to pass, and that's really the important part of the issue.

 

[Laramie]

I understand you're trying to present your argument favorably but the reality is, 10,000 of those 10740 point holders are likely to die before drawing a tag whether the allocation changes or not. Looks like there's currently 5 random moose tags?

The rest of my comments where just about the thread in general.

Under the current quotas, non-residents are drawing 650 tags every 10 years. I think it is reasonable half the people involved could draw in their life.

 

[tdhanses]

If Biden’s Dept of Interior is appointed and his plans go through I think NR tag allocations and prices will matter very little to residents in the west.

"According to a University of Wyoming analysis, the Biden ban could cost my state nearly $13 billion in tax revenue, which would devastate Wyoming’s investments in education, healthcare and infrastructure," said Lummis, R-Wyo, “Congresswoman Deb Haaland will be a champion of this and even more radical policies, and I am committed to doing anything I can to fight the Biden and Haaland job-killing agenda."

 

[EJFS]

Non-residents are losing 2/3 of the moose tags under a 90/10 proposal. Not everyone is in this for a trophy. Some just want a cow moose. This proposal would effectively mean that close to 10,000 of the 10,700 preference point holders would never draw a moose tag in their lifetime.

Fair enough, but let's face it, most of us will never get to go on a trophy moose or sheep hunt and this doesn't really change that. Going from 4 to 2 tags in a unit that gets thousands of applicants every year isn't the reason you're not going to draw.

But there are still tons of opportunities to go out west and experience mountain hunting.

 

[Laramie]

Did you BOTHER to read?

CURRENT splits.

I also understand what was in the bill, but I believe that will have to be changed as CURRENTLY, the allocations are based on total tags. In some cases, NR's receive 100% of a district allocation of sheep tags, or 50% in areas that offer only 2 tags.

You're also making the assumption that under the proposed bill that the Commission would have still offered 10% of the TOTAL sheep licenses issued to NR. I saw NOTHING in that bill that stated otherwise.

Your math MAY be right, IF, the areas with less than 10 tags were totally excluded on a statewide NR allocation. The way I read the bill, the 10% would have been based on a statewide total, including tag numbers in the areas with less than 10 tags issued.

There were some questions that need to be addressed...there will be a lot of people looking at and clarifying some of these issues.

90-10 in some form is going to pass, and that's really the important part of the issue.

So to make sure I understand you correctly, are you in support of actually giving 10% of the total permits for moose and sheep? That would give non-residents 32 moose tags and 16 sheep tags per year.

 

[Laramie]

Fair enough, but let's face it, most of us will never get to go on a trophy moose or sheep hunt and this doesn't really change that. Going from 4 to 2 tags in a unit that gets thousands of applicants every year isn't the reason you're not going to draw.

But there are still tons of opportunities to go out west and experience mountain hunting.

Actually that would change things dramatically for the guys who have been applying for 15+ years. It essentially doubles or triples the time left. If a 60 year old was within 5-10 years of drawing, now with the change he will be 10-20+ years away. Hunting moose in your 70s or 80s isn't realistic for most of us.

I agree- there are tons of opportunities out west. I gladly pay for them yearly. Doesn't change the fact a lot of good people stand to lose 1000s of dollars and an opportunity at something they have invested in for decades.

 

[GrosVentre]

I love NR coming to KS and think everyone should, tags are easier to get then WY tags, we have hardly any public land but have opened up thousands of acres that are private to residents and NR.

You know why I am pro NR coming to KS, I’m not a hypocrite, I’m a NR for 75% of my hunting each year. I also think it would be silly to give residents 15 tags yet limit NR opportunities.

Quick question, would you prefer your state manage for trophy quality or herd health?

So let me getting this right. You are asking me a question about trophy quality and herd health in Wyoming, but think Wyoming needs more wolves.

Let me ask the question again. What have YOU done for NR in Kansas, not what Kansas has done for the NR. Waiting.....

I hunt multiple states throughout the west and Midwest. If a state decides they want to give more welfare tags (outfitters) or put a larger percentage of tags in resident hands I don't cry on an internet form, I just choose not to spend my money there. NM is a perfect example.

Half the people crying about Wyoming aren't doing a thing in their own state for NR.....fact.

 

[Rob5589]

Better look at the demand reports; there are thousands of NR applying for Sheep or Moose that failed basic math and are applying with no chance of drawing on points in their lifetime. There are currently 11,000+ nr with Sheep points, only about 2,000 actually applied, and last year there were 6 tags issued on points.

If that is truly the case, yeah, a complete waste of time and money. People just like to gamble I suppose.