Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[Ten Bears]

Does anyone know what percentage of funding from NRs goes into Game and Fish budgets per year ?

Also the amount of NR taxes that fund BLM/Federal Land ?

What about revenue from NR’s who travel to Wyoming for these hunts ? Hotels, Gas, Food, etc.

 

[Steve O]

Nearly 40% of the state fish and game funding comes from non-res according to the last report I looked at.

Jeremy

That seems low:



So if the “combined” funds follow the 77/17 split, the 25% are funding over 80% of WYGF. If and when this bill passes, 10% of us that don’t live in Wyoming will be funding over 80% of WYGF. How long do the residents think that will last? I’m HEAVILY invested in hunting Wyoming and I’m not what I would consider a “casual” hunter...ALL my disposable income and time goes to hunting...this gives me pause. I’m more worried about the loss of opportunity than the cost. When I signed up for AZ years ago I signed up for “up to 10% of the tags. When NM cut NR opportunity, I did drop NM. When I signed up for WY, I signed up for 25% of the tags and I calculated out I would eventually draw a sheep tag before I died. Now they are taking that calculation out to a number I can’t hit much less hike the mountains. I’ve got 10 years before I figure I can retire. I may have to make a temporary residency spot in WY for a year or two so I can get my sheep hunt in. One way or another I’m going to figure out a way.

 

[Southforkguy]

Ooof man.... I'm already upset about trying to build my points and chasing creep in WYOMING now it's like do I just burn 5 on a general elk tag and go. Aint like it used to be

 

[fatlander]

Ooof man.... I'm already upset about trying to build my points and chasing creep in WYOMING now it's like do I just burn 5 on a general elk tag and go. Aint like it used to be

Five points, or more, is what that general is going to take the next time around.


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[Southforkguy]

Five points, or more, is what that general is going to take the next time around.


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Yeah dude, pretty sad I was hoping to save and get into the bighorns after my last deer hunt up there in 2016. Looks like I'll be waiting a long fkn time lol

 

[wymtnpounder]

That seems low:

View attachment 269785

So if the “combined” funds follow the 77/17 split, the 25% are funding over 80% of WYGF. If and when this bill passes, 10% of us that don’t live in Wyoming will be funding over 80% of WYGF. How long do the residents think that will last? I’m HEAVILY invested in hunting Wyoming and I’m not what I would consider a “casual” hunter...ALL my disposable income and time goes to hunting...this gives me pause. I’m more worried about the loss of opportunity than the cost. When I signed up for AZ years ago I signed up for “up to 10% of the tags. When NM cut NR opportunity, I did drop NM. When I signed up for WY, I signed up for 25% of the tags and I calculated out I would eventually draw a sheep tag before I died. Now they are taking that calculation out to a number I can’t hit much less hike the mountains. I’ve got 10 years before I figure I can retire. I may have to make a temporary residency spot in WY for a year or two so I can get my sheep hunt in. One way or another I’m going to figure out a way.

If you've been applying for 22 years you could draw a tag and hunt. Let's go!

 

[j_volt]

Five points, or more, is what that general is going to take the next time around.


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I read this as the general tags would increase, right? There are a lot of moving parts (general tag supply up, LE tag supply down, mid tier point holders potentially settling for general tags, etc), but this might make a general tag easier to draw in the interim. There are plenty of people with 6+ points that will refuse to burn those points on general tags. However, I might be reading the whole allocation wrong.

 

[txhunter581]

Right, that's where you come in...they'll listen to you.

Not really. In Colorado they raise our prices almost every year, and with the numbers of NR tags they sell, we bring in too much money for them to be able to afford to cut us back to 20%, much less 10%. They would be cutting their own throat financially to cut us back that much unless they tripled our prices. Double edged sword. I suspect CO seeks more NR tags than all other western states combined

 

[Wapiti1]

That seems low:

View attachment 269785

So if the “combined” funds follow the 77/17 split, the 25% are funding over 80% of WYGF. If and when this bill passes, 10% of us that don’t live in Wyoming will be funding over 80% of WYGF. How long do the residents think that will last? I’m HEAVILY invested in hunting Wyoming and I’m not what I would consider a “casual” hunter...ALL my disposable income and time goes to hunting...this gives me pause. I’m more worried about the loss of opportunity than the cost. When I signed up for AZ years ago I signed up for “up to 10% of the tags. When NM cut NR opportunity, I did drop NM. When I signed up for WY, I signed up for 25% of the tags and I calculated out I would eventually draw a sheep tag before I died. Now they are taking that calculation out to a number I can’t hit much less hike the mountains. I’ve got 10 years before I figure I can retire. I may have to make a temporary residency spot in WY for a year or two so I can get my sheep hunt in. One way or another I’m going to figure out a way.

Steve, the number I quoted is total funding for the game and fish department, not just revenue from tag sales. Last year residents spent 6.7 million on hunting licenses, and stamps, NR spent 19.3 million (excludes preference point fees). The total budget for the department was 89 million. Sources: rwservlet (fws.gov), 2020_WGFD_brochure_final.pdf (wyo.gov), WGFD_ANNUALREPORT_2020.pdf (wyo.gov) (section B4).

Jeremy

 

[Laramie]

I read this as the general tags would increase, right? There are a lot of moving parts (general tag supply up, LE tag supply down, mid tier point holders potentially settling for general tags, etc), but this might make a general tag easier to draw in the interim. There are plenty of people with 6+ points that will refuse to burn those points on general tags. However, I might be reading the whole allocation wrong.

You are correct on the allocation but if this passes, there will be a push by some to burn their points. Many of them will buy a general tag and then be done. I don't anticipate easier odds for a general tag anytime soon.

This same thing happened on a smaller scale the last time they raised the moose license and PP cost. Many guys have been trying to burn their points- even on cow tags. Take a look at the points necessary to draw an area 38 cow moose tag over the last 5 years. In 2016, 5 points got you the tag. Last year the 3 tags went to people with 17 points, 13 points, and the last one 10 points. Those guys see the writing on the wall and are bailing. If the 90/10 passes, it will likely take 20 points or more to draw that cow tag.

I do think the general elk will level out in 4-6 years somewhere around 5-7 points but I can assure you the days of hunting a general tag every 2-3 years are gone if this passes.

 

[Steve O]

If you've been applying for 22 years you could draw a tag and hunt. Let's go!

Wyoming guys...applying for 22 years gives you 21 points and that was 20 last year. If you take a look at the non resident odds you will see I could draw in a couple areas that are just about 100% wilderness. For much of my application time I was 100% focused to do my hunt DIY. That puts me on the CUSP of drawing a couple units that have some sheep not in the wilderness. After another rejection in 2020 I am looking at a couple more options and may spend some time in one of them this fall, depending on all the other draws, to see if I think I can DIY. I don’t have anything against outfitters but get a lot of satisfaction out of hunting in my own or with friends. And from a month of hunting them in CO with my recurve I know I could get it done with a rifle this time. As I get older I may pony up the big money to go with an outfitter, I just don’t know.

I appreciate the PMs Ive received and if any more of you have advice, please PM me and I can go into more detail. I definitely understand where the residents are coming from on all this.

 

[Trial153]

Wyoming guys...applying for 22 years gives you 21 points and that was 20 last year. If you take a look at the non resident odds you will see I could draw in a couple areas that are just about 100% wilderness. For much of my application time I was 100% focused to do my hunt DIY. That puts me on the CUSP of drawing a couple units that have some sheep not in the wilderness. After another rejection in 2020 I am looking at a couple more options and may spend some time in one of them this fall, depending on all the other draws, to see if I think I can DIY. I don’t have anything against outfitters but get a lot of satisfaction out of hunting in my own or with friends. And from a month of hunting them in CO with my recurve I know I could get it done with a rifle this time. As I get older I may pony up the big money to go with an outfitter, I just don’t know.

I appreciate the PMs Ive received and if any more of you have advice, please PM me and I can go into more detail. I definitely understand where the residents are coming from on all this.

I find it hilarious that some people feel like NR should take a 60% reduction in MSG tags on the chin and be thankful for it because hey....you still have opportunities.

 

[Gobbler36]

The cost, IMO, isn't the sticking point. Reducing the NR distribution to 1 in 10 tags basically makes it an outside lucky chance to get a worthwhile license, which I totally get for moose and goats. Doing that for all species, though, basically sends the message that Wyoming's hunting is only for residents, and sorry about your luck if you're not able to rearrange your life to make living there happen. Thousands of tourists from the west and midwest come to the Chesapeake Bay where I live to fish for Striped Bass, Cobia, Redfish and Tuna. They all get the exact same opportunity as I do. Happy to pay my extra share as an NR, but it just doesn't seem fair to be relegated to such a tiny percentage of licenses for species that are often an easy weekend trip for resident hunters.

Not near the numbers of people come to fish as they do elk hunt. apple to oranges comparison

 

[3forks]

I understand the perspective of non-residents on this, but the experience as a whole for both residents and non-residents is being diminished by the amount of people competing for the same resource.

The following pictures are from Colorado, and it’s not just hunters experiencing crowds. At a certain point, there become just too many people trying to use a resource with a finite capacity, and an adjustment has to be made.

 

[Fatcamp]

I read this as the general tags would increase, right? There are a lot of moving parts (general tag supply up, LE tag supply down, mid tier point holders potentially settling for general tags, etc), but this might make a general tag easier to draw in the interim. There are plenty of people with 6+ points that will refuse to burn those points on general tags. However, I might be reading the whole allocation wrong.

Well, then those people with six points will never hunt.

 

[j_volt]

Well, then those people with six points will never hunt.

I keep applying for LE Utah elk same thing!

 

[wapitibob]

That seems low:

View attachment 269785

So if the “combined” funds follow the 77/17 split, the 25% are funding over 80% of WYGF. If and when this bill passes, 10% of us that don’t live in Wyoming will be funding over 80% of WYGF. How long do the residents think that will last? I’m HEAVILY invested in hunting Wyoming and I’m not what I would consider a “casual” hunter...ALL my disposable income and time goes to hunting...this gives me pause. I’m more worried about the loss of opportunity than the cost. When I signed up for AZ years ago I signed up for “up to 10% of the tags. When NM cut NR opportunity, I did drop NM. When I signed up for WY, I signed up for 25% of the tags and I calculated out I would eventually draw a sheep tag before I died. Now they are taking that calculation out to a number I can’t hit much less hike the mountains. I’ve got 10 years before I figure I can retire. I may have to make a temporary residency spot in WY for a year or two so I can get my sheep hunt in. One way or another I’m going to figure out a way.

NR provide 77% of license revenue. License revenue is 66% of the total.

 

[sasquatch]

There's just too many people on the earth. That's the whole problem.

Sooooo taboo to talk about.

Sooner or later when I’m long gone they’ll HAVE to eat anything meats if this keeps up.




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[jmez]

WY can do what they see fit, their state their decision. If I don't like it I can move there are go somewhere else. Really is that simple.

That said, trying to sell it as this will increase opportunity for a general tag is not correct. Going into the 2021 draw 37,711 hunters have 1 point. That increases all the way to six points. Moving 6% of the tags to the general pool isn't increasing opportunity.

There are only a few things that will increase opportunity. Baby boomers start dying off in mass taking them out of the points pool. Hunting popularity in the west drops exponentially. Animal populations explode necessitating a huge increase in tags. Only one of those has a realistic shot of happening. You will see the effect of that over the next 10 years.

 

[robby denning]

I understand the perspective of non-residents on this, but the experience as a whole for both residents and non-residents is being diminished by the amount of people competing for the same resource.

The following pictures are from Colorado, and it’s not just hunters experiencing crowds. At a certain point, there become just too many people trying to use a resource with a finite capacity, and an adjustment has to be made.

I threw up when I thought of the archery buck hunter filling his Nalgene from that pond the next day