Stone Glacier and Kifaru

[Bigfeet]

Matt,
Really appreciate your efforts in comparing these packs. Great info so far.
These two manufacturers have different approaches for carrying a heavy load (such as meat). Kifaru's approach is to load the meat into the main compartment. Stone Glacier has a meat shelf. Can you possibly compare how these two methods carry a heavy load?
I like the idea of the meat shelf, but am concerned how the weight would ride.

 

[Aron Snyder]

[video=vimeo;56174100]https://vimeo.com/56174100[/video]

 

[Matt Cashell]

Matt,
Really appreciate your efforts in comparing these packs. Great info so far.
These two manufacturers have different approaches for carrying a heavy load (such as meat). Kifaru's approach is to load the meat into the main compartment. Stone Glacier has a meat shelf. Can you possibly compare how these two methods carry a heavy load?
I like the idea of the meat shelf, but am concerned how the weight would ride.

It's in the works bigfeet!

 

[Darren Best]

Sorry Elkhunter no subtitles this time.

No worries.

If you want to break those things you should let my teenage sons have a crack at it.

 

[Matt Cashell]

So Kurt emailed me some information and pics on some load shelf experiments he did. I thought I would share an excerpt:

" Basically I have calculated that when loaded (sheep/mule deer size animal) and camp, approximately 70% of the weight (meat) only takes up 35% of my cubic inches. This I want to keep as close to my center of gravity as possible as it reduces the amount of backward leverage created. However, it is hard to put an exact number to the additional force created, so I built a jig to better test and understand the mechanical advantage. The jig simulates a 25” pack frame with a base 12” wide by 11” deep, the approximate size of many 6000 cubic bags. The frame pivots at the hipbelt area and has a scale attached to the load lifter placement to record the force. There are 6 sand bags with a combined weight of 76 pounds. The first pic simulates loading the meat the full dimension of the bag, the second simulates loading the meat in a shelf and compressing it to the frame. Pic one generated 31.81 pounds of force, pic two with a shelf generates 14.21 pounds. So with 76 pounds of meat, an extra 17.6 pounds of force is created on your body simply by how the pack is loaded."

Pics are attached:

 

[Matt Cashell]

This was also from the email:

"Given that both packs have the capability, I thought perhaps it may be something you would like to include as I think it is a great option for many hunters I regardless of whether it is a Stone Glacier pack or the Kifaru."

Nice gesture, IMO.

 

[123 4/8 P&Y]

So Kurt emailed me some information and pics on some load shelf experiments he did. I thought I would share an excerpt:

" Basically I have calculated that when loaded (sheep/mule deer size animal) and camp, approximately 70% of the weight (meat) only takes up 35% of my cubic inches. This I want to keep as close to my center of gravity as possible as it reduces the amount of backward leverage created. However, it is hard to put an exact number to the additional force created, so I built a jig to better test and understand the mechanical advantage. The jig simulates a 25” pack frame with a base 12” wide by 11” deep, the approximate size of many 6000 cubic bags. The frame pivots at the hipbelt area and has a scale attached to the load lifter placement to record the force. There are 6 sand bags with a combined weight of 76 pounds. The first pic simulates loading the meat the full dimension of the bag, the second simulates loading the meat in a shelf and compressing it to the frame. Pic one generated 31.81 pounds of force, pic two with a shelf generates 14.21 pounds. So with 76 pounds of meat, an extra 17.6 pounds of force is created on your body simply by how the pack is loaded."

Pics are attached:

Thanks for the info. I knew the position of the most dense cargo made a huge difference. But it's nice to see it illustrated with your jig.

Hey Aron will a heavy load out kit work between my Duplex frame and my T1?

 

[bigfish b.c]

This was also from the email:

"Given that both packs have the capability, I thought perhaps it may be something you would like to include as I think it is a great option for many hunters I regardless of whether it is a Stone Glacier pack or the Kifaru."

Nice gesture, IMO.

yah i have talk with him a few times & always very helpfull & very open about the capabilities of the pack ,if you have time could you take pics of the 2 frames side by side front & back & how do the shoulder straps compare in width & padding.my biggest issue with the stone glacier is the size,i know allot of you guys wonder how you can fill these big packs but trust me if you sheep hunt in northern b.c in oct you find out in a hurry how to fill that bag to stay warm.you can add the approach to it to make it 8200ci but that gets pricey.my longhunter is the 8500ci model & i can fill it on a pack in for 14 days,we had a few days of -12 & 2+ feet of snow at 5500ft this year

 

[Bigfeet]

Awesome stuff guys. Thanks for the great info.

 

[luke moffat]

yah i have talk with him a few times & always very helpfull & very open about the capabilities of the pack ,if you have time could you take pics of the 2 frames side by side front & back & how do the shoulder straps compare in width & padding.my biggest issue with the stone glacier is the size,i know allot of you guys wonder how you can fill these big packs but trust me if you sheep hunt in northern b.c in oct you find out in a hurry how to fill that bag to stay warm.you can add the approach to it to make it 8200ci but that gets pricey.my longhunter is the 8500ci model & i can fill it on a pack in for 14 days,we had a few days of -12 & 2+ feet of snow at 5500ft this year

Not in northern BC, but there is a reason I went from 7200 to 8500 cu in this year....my previous pack was 7800....I missed that one so I wanted more volume as the packs compress down pretty good and air is pretty light to pack around.

 

[jmez]

I liken buying a pack to buying any sort or trailer. You will never be mad or wish that you had one that was smaller. Need one just a little bigger one time and you will be pissed until you finally replace it with a bigger model.

 

[Matt Cashell]

I get what you guys are saying, but that DT1 is HUGE. I mean HUGE! Like I mentioned in the video, It would be nice if you are packing a packraft or something.

 

[Ryan Avery]

But it's light and packs down to nothing!

 

[dotman]

I get what you guys are saying, but that DT1 is HUGE. I mean HUGE! Like I mentioned in the video, It would be nice if you are packing a packraft or something.

That's why when I sold my T1 I decide on the 4800ci HC. I like having to reduce the items I take and nothing helps more then not having enough space.

 

[Matt Cashell]

But it's light and packs down to nothing!

A Packraft?

 

[Ryan Avery]

Both of these packs are roughly the same weight as the X2, that's crazy

 

[Travis Bertrand]

Who would have thought there could be so much advances in packs over the last 20 years.... Jeeez

 

[sk1]

I get what you guys are saying, but that DT1 is HUGE. I mean HUGE! Like I mentioned in the video, It would be nice if you are packing a packraft or something.

IMO the DT1 is ideal once you cut out the snowcollar, unless you have an application you need that much room for. Like aron and others have said, you can always pack up and strap things down under your lid without the snow collar....and unless you plan on filling it all the way up, that thing just gets in my way. Cut it off as many have recommended and glad i did, and still have more room than the dt2

 

[luke moffat]

I get what you guys are saying, but that DT1 is HUGE. I mean HUGE! Like I mentioned in the video, It would be nice if you are packing a packraft or something.

Packrafting is one of the reasons for a big pack. However things like winter mountain goat capes, meat, and camp and what not coming out in one load means I eat up a lot of volume quick. I nearly cubed out my DT1 on 3 different occasions last year alone. I hate strapping gear to the outside of my pack. If I was more interested in coming out in a series of loads once you get an animal, I can see a smaller pack being useful. But even then what are you saving a couple oz so you can throw on a couple pockets and negate the weight savings anyways?

Keep up the great comparisons on the packs BB, very interesting read indeed.

 

[ohhiitznik]

Packrafting is one of the reasons for a big pack. However things like winter mountain goat capes, meat, and camp and what not coming out in one load means I eat up a lot of volume quick. I nearly cubed out my DT1 on 3 different occasions last year alone. I hate strapping gear to the outside of my pack. If I was more interested in coming out in a series of loads once you get an animal, I can see a smaller pack being useful. But even then what are you saving a couple oz so you can throw on a couple pockets and negate the weight savings anyways?

Keep up the great comparisons on the packs BB, very interesting read indeed.

Totally agree. Why go with the smaller bag and throw on pockets when 2200 more cubes is available for 3 more oz's? I'll always go big for packs and compress them down. Air is light to pack!