X2...
Stone Glacier and Kifaru
- Thread starter Aron Snyder
- Start date
X2...
I have fielded many questions about the load shelf concept, and one of the reoccurring questions is if meat pushes the load too far away from your body. If loaded correct, it is the easiest way to get the heaviest portion of the load (meat) as close as possible to your center of gravity. Generally speaking, when packing out meat and gear, approximately 70% of the weight (meat) takes up 35% of my cubic inches, this I want to keep as close to my body and center of gravity as possible. I have found the key is how the pack is loaded and compression. Load the bag first, then lay the pack flat on the ground (shoulder straps down) and roll the loaded bag back. This way you can load the meat directly on the frame, spread the meat in the bag to ensure an even thickness, then roll the bag back and compress. Once properly compressed you will have a uniform thickness of approximately 4-5” the height of the frame (approximately 1600 cubic, 75-80 lbs), as close to your center of gravity as possible. Good compression will keep the meat from shifting or balling in the bottom. This also keeps the meat separate from your gear, which I have found to work well keeping gear clean and dry when it is multiple days back to the strip/trailhead.
This being said, if using the load shelf on the 6000, the idea is not to load the 6000 pack to full capacity and load 80 pounds of meat in the shelf. When using a larger pack, it is just the location of the meat that changes, not the overall dimensions of the load (not farther from your back.) Given the weight per cubic inch of boned meat is about twice as much as my gear per cubic inch, this I want closest to my center of gravity. The positioning/size of the remainder of the load can be varied in the pack vertically using compression. We are basically creating a lever with the lower lumbar as the fulcrum. Every time the distance from the fulcrum doubles, the force created at that point doubles. Example, 20 pounds at 4 inches will create 40 pounds of force at 8 inches. I know the forces acting on our bodies under a loaded pack are much more complicated than that and not proportional, but it shows the impact of moving the load out and away from the body, or of the meat balling at the bottom of the pack.
I personally use both methods, sometimes the meat is in the bag, sometimes in the load shelf. I like having the options mentioned above to use what works best for the given scenario. I feel it is whatever works best for you and your hunting style. Below is a pic of a Solo loaded with camp and a boned mule deer for reference.
Kurt Racicot
This being said, if using the load shelf on the 6000, the idea is not to load the 6000 pack to full capacity and load 80 pounds of meat in the shelf. When using a larger pack, it is just the location of the meat that changes, not the overall dimensions of the load (not farther from your back.) Given the weight per cubic inch of boned meat is about twice as much as my gear per cubic inch, this I want closest to my center of gravity. The positioning/size of the remainder of the load can be varied in the pack vertically using compression. We are basically creating a lever with the lower lumbar as the fulcrum. Every time the distance from the fulcrum doubles, the force created at that point doubles. Example, 20 pounds at 4 inches will create 40 pounds of force at 8 inches. I know the forces acting on our bodies under a loaded pack are much more complicated than that and not proportional, but it shows the impact of moving the load out and away from the body, or of the meat balling at the bottom of the pack.
I personally use both methods, sometimes the meat is in the bag, sometimes in the load shelf. I like having the options mentioned above to use what works best for the given scenario. I feel it is whatever works best for you and your hunting style. Below is a pic of a Solo loaded with camp and a boned mule deer for reference.
Kurt Racicot
S
Salmo-Priest
Guest
Well put Kurt and the picture dosen't look at all like a load thats gonna pull a guy over. Looking forward to being a Stone Glaicer owner. Also glad you didn't go brown, or black on the pack. The Terminus is right down my alley. Glad the load shelf is a permanent fixture. Less to worry about in the failure department and I'll never be able to forget to bring the load shelf with me.
Well put Kurt and the picture dosen't look at all like a load thats gonna pull a guy over. Looking forward to being a Stone Glaicer owner. Also glad you didn't go brown, or black on the pack. The Terminus is right down my alley. Glad the load shelf is a permanent fixture. Less to worry about in the failure department and I'll never be able to forget to bring the load shelf with me.
Salmo, well I hope all of your assumptions on the SGP are met. At that price point it would scare me that in less then a year they already are coming out with a G2, in six months there maybe a G3. Not trying to be rude but your post about the REI 85 pack would make one think that you would want a proven pack and I'm not saying the SGP isn't good since I haven't used it but I would wait for some good reviews and make sure all the kinks from the G1 have been worked out with the G2. I truly hope the SGP turns out to be a great pack because I want Kifaru always working to be the best in innovation and quality.
On the contrary, it proves that Kurt is listening and responding to customers. I dont see how its any different then Kifarus constant evolution. I recently carried a Terminus daily for nearly three weeks, I dont have a real thorough review but the pack is stout. I wouldnt worry about it failing and loads felt good. On most of those days I carried lighter loads but when near or over 100 the fit was as comfortable as can be expected and coming from a G1 LHG and waistbelt is was more comfortable. I have ordered a bikini frame to upgrade my LHG but I will be testing that first before making a final decision between the two. Best of luck to Stone Glacier packs, it's nice to have options.
Dotman,
I understand your concerns about a new product on the market, I too am a very conservative consumer. However, just to be clear, these are not “Gen 2” packs, simply the second production run. I have only made two changes, both minor fabric changes. The interior pockets will be a grey 70D nylon opposed to the black Xpac, this is more flexible and forms better to whatever may be in the pocket (reducing unusable cubic inches.) The second change is to use a black spacer mesh on the inside of the suspension opposed to the foliage spacer mesh. This was because I found a USA manufactured fabric, and I strive to use as many US materials as possible. The issues brought forth by customers have been a lack of accessories and an option for a lumbar support. With this second run there will be a spotting scope pocket accessory, a roll top load cell/meat bag, an optional lumbar support pad, and an 1800 cubic day pack. All of these are compatible with existing frames/packs. My goal before production was to put the necessary time in on testing and R&D so that did not fall on the customer, so there was no need for a Gen2. Thus far I have been very happy with the results and feedback.
Thanks for the well wishes R Miller, much appreciated.
Kurt
I understand your concerns about a new product on the market, I too am a very conservative consumer. However, just to be clear, these are not “Gen 2” packs, simply the second production run. I have only made two changes, both minor fabric changes. The interior pockets will be a grey 70D nylon opposed to the black Xpac, this is more flexible and forms better to whatever may be in the pocket (reducing unusable cubic inches.) The second change is to use a black spacer mesh on the inside of the suspension opposed to the foliage spacer mesh. This was because I found a USA manufactured fabric, and I strive to use as many US materials as possible. The issues brought forth by customers have been a lack of accessories and an option for a lumbar support. With this second run there will be a spotting scope pocket accessory, a roll top load cell/meat bag, an optional lumbar support pad, and an 1800 cubic day pack. All of these are compatible with existing frames/packs. My goal before production was to put the necessary time in on testing and R&D so that did not fall on the customer, so there was no need for a Gen2. Thus far I have been very happy with the results and feedback.
Thanks for the well wishes R Miller, much appreciated.
Kurt
My bad, could have sworn you said the G2 would be available in Jan. I do wish you the best just saying it is hard to determine overall durability until a product has been around and yes people will have to try it for that to happen.
I've held xpac and its some tough stuff. So is cordura. So is webbing and the hardware. The same materials are commonly used throughout the industry, so educated guesses can be made about a product with a little knowledge of its materials and construction.
I've never held a Stone Glacier pack, but they use good materials. If the stitching is good then durability should be excellent.
What it boils down to is the Innovation Adoption Lifecycle
The first customers are innovators, then early adopters, then early majority, then late majority, then laggards.
Different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a SG pack due to concerns about durability, some others would.
Good luck Kurt! Innovation and competition in the market do nothing but help the hunter.
S
Salmo-Priest
Guest
You'd have to have some monster stones to "dare" push a pack onto the public that isn't well worth the extra coin that separates if from the likes of Eberle, Blacks Creek, Tensing, or Badlands which are half the price. Not to mention other packs in the $300-$400 dollar level being sold at places like REI. None of which I prefer at this point into my career. I've invested enough time, effort and money I really know what I'm after. Not sure either the Kifaru or the SG will stack up to a solid External like a Barneys or a Dana Design. I hope they will be nearly as effective as I want both a serious hauler and more hunt ability without the awkward frame for hunting deer and elk where it's thick.
Last edited:
a3dhunter
WKR
That describes the kifaru DT1.
I wouldn't consider a regular timberline or a stone glacier a serious hauler.
So you've used the Timberline, DT1, and Stone Glacier?
a3dhunter
WKR
Judging the SG according to what I've heard from owners and looking at what it offers compared to like packs.
Owned an EMR which had the duplex frame and suspension, and my hunting partner has a DT1.
Currently own a timberline.
The frame on the DT1/ EMR style packs will haul anything IMHO.
I've had the duplex LH Standard and Guide, and Timberline 1, 2, and 3, and have not tried a SG yet, so I won't comment on how something I haven't tried is inferior.
justin davis
WKR
Correct! The duplex frame is a serious hauler! Will haul anything your two legs can handle!!
a3dhunter
WKR
crumy
WKR
Bitterroot, I am sure you will do a great job. You have been helpful to me over the past year on other forums when I was researching optics. Was glad to see you got a story published as well.
hunting1
WKR
+100! The LH was far from good for me after having a G1 and G2, but just me. I would never say it is no good for someone else. All these posts from people judging the SG without even using it is funny and entertaining at best!
Happy New Year!
Backpack Hunter
WKR
This far into my backpacking "career" I have a pretty good idea of what has and has not worked for me. Judging from the design of the SG pack I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that it will not work well for me without ever using it.
This is not to say that the SG pack is good or bad as I have no clue, merely saying that for me it will not work very well.
BPH,
What makes you say that? What pack on the market have you tried that is similar to the Stone Glacier? SG has a dimensionally cut full wrap belt, hybrid CF frame, xpac, etc. I'm a backpack fanatic and can't think of another pack with a similar feature set and specs.
What makes you say that? What pack on the market have you tried that is similar to the Stone Glacier? SG has a dimensionally cut full wrap belt, hybrid CF frame, xpac, etc. I'm a backpack fanatic and can't think of another pack with a similar feature set and specs.
Backpack Hunter
WKR
It is a full wraparound hip belt (has been around since the 80's) that sits high on the back without a lumbar pad, and directly from Kurt (on another forum) there is no contour to the frame....this is also shown in the fit pictures on SG's website. The 4 carbon stays are not adjustable two of which are in an X and two of which are on the outsides. As far as the bag.....well its just a bag to me. Some have pockets, some don't but to me the heart of a pack is its suspension not the fabric they attach to it.
For me it simply would not work well, for others it may.
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