adventure907
WKR
While it may not be popular opinion, don't automatically disregard Sourdough due to his sometimes combative and less than tactful nature. He often makes some very salient points.
AK Sheep, Population Observations
- Thread starter ColeyG
- Start date
B_Reynolds_AK
WKR
Just when I thought Sourdough was a bitter old man in a cabin with dial up internet talking nonsense about herding moose, he comes out with the post of the year! haha
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SummitsCalling
WKR
Don't you own a plane, or take a horse and buggy everywhere you go? Electricity I'm guessing is out for you as well, too much sport in it huh?
People used to read and talk more. It is pretty hard to find mentors these days. What I mean by this is that you used to develop a close friendship with a group of fellow hunters who carried a lot of collective knowledge. You listened to them when you were young and sometimes when money wasn't there you would tough it out. I used to hunt sheep and everything else in bluejeans, wool long handles, rocky boots(cheap ones at that), cotton socks and multiple(two or three layers of Swedish or German military sweaters. I used one of those plywood military packframes done up Yukon style with all my kit wrapped up in a blue 10X12 tarp that was my shelter. I had a thin downbag from moonstone that came into my life by way of falling out of somebody's truck on the way to Chitina. No pads. I had a coffee can with wire in it for my stove. Just had to be really good starting up fires. You know drygas plants actually burn well but make stuff taste like menthol cigarettes.
I learned about blisters, frozen tarps, and how cotton kills from getting my azz handed to me. Quickly I went to the best sheep hunter in the area. He still is btw. He took me through a learning course of probably 7 days. That is all it took. I shot a curl and a quarter sheep the next year on a backpack hunt at 10 yards. We were only gone for three days but I had things dialed in that I could have stayed 3 weeks out there.
The great gear hunt is because there aren't a lot of mentors out there. People have more money and can through the Internet get themselves all sort of sideways. Mentors often share with their family but will not go beyond that. Other ones with experience come off as hard and bitter as Sourdough.
There are a lot of good mentors out there. There are also a lot of different views to what is acceptable for technology or no technology. Bob Cassell is one of the best sheep hunters that I know. He uses far reaching rifles tuned to perfection in exceptional calibers to take monster sheep. There is probably a lot of av gas tied up into every monster that he has taken. Many sheep hunters have different goals. Some want a sheep from every range. Some want the biggest ram. Others just love the experience and the country above treeline. Sheephunting is a special thing and I do believe that you are closer to God when you are up there.
My part time job is selling camping stuff at a local box store. I can tell you that I have set many young people on sheep hunting and I have used my knowledge to help people with a TMA tag or those that have that hunger and glazed over look that says-----I want this and I will die to get it.
It all comes to time vs. money. You can shoot a sheep with your caribou rifle, tennis shoes and a tarp if you have enough time and grit. Sourdough made a claim that there were several places that you could start in the morning, go up and shoot a sheep, and get done in time to get pizza or a burger on the way home. He might remember things being that way. In the early 1970s pre ANILCA, you could do it. Yes, some people do luck out and just are at the right place but that isn't the norm.
I was talking with one of my friends who is a pilot in TMA and might be one of the best in there. When he was young he heard stories about monster sheep shot in the Tonsina Walkin area.(This was before many guides and many hunters have made this one of the more over hunted units in the state.) He and his friend who were from Mentasta area hiked in an old Guy George horsetrail and got up into one of the bowls above the drainage of a certain creek that he was advised to do by an incredible guide, hunter and taxidermist who still lives on the Tok Cutoff. They ran into two full curl rams that were barely full curl. They got about two hundred yards from the rams and noticed two hunters who had watched this guy and his friend hike in and followed them in. He waited till they got to where they were gathered on a little knoll that was hidden from the rams that were feeding. The two new hunters asked when this guy and his friend were going to shoot the two biggest rams. The guy had visions of 40 inch ram with lamb tips that might hit that magic 43 inch mark that he had set his sights on. It was the first day and he thought, well there are probably bigger sheep further in. The two hunters shot the sheep which were huge, more than 40 inches with monster bases and lots of mass all the way to the end. The guy and friend never found another ram in the unit and went home empty handed. The issue was that the sheep that he had grown up with and the people he had grown up with only would mount true monsters. He had just established a norm that was way beyond what other hunters would.
I put that story in because those days do happen. There is a dental clinic up here in Fairbanks that has probably four or five complete sheep fanatics working there. One of the dentists was new but he was a great hunter and did not have the capital that his fellow dentists had. The owner of the clinic went out and hired a very good guide in a great area and shot a 38 incher. The other dentist spent 4K on a charter out to the Brooks and shot a 37 incher. He came to me and wanted to know what he should do. He didn't have the time or money. I knew a place that was close to the road that had not been hunted for a couple of years. I sent him up there with his sheep partner. They came back with two legal rams and the dentist had shot a 39 inch ram. This was three years ago. But this is not the norm and I did not expect the dentist to actually succeed. I figured that this was going to be a good learning experience and that there might be a legal ram up there.
I would say that there are very many more guides now than then and very much less opportunity now than then. Sourdough would do a very much better job about teaching people how to survive in the mountains that puffing about all of the resident hunting opportunities and legal rams living by the road.
I learned about blisters, frozen tarps, and how cotton kills from getting my azz handed to me. Quickly I went to the best sheep hunter in the area. He still is btw. He took me through a learning course of probably 7 days. That is all it took. I shot a curl and a quarter sheep the next year on a backpack hunt at 10 yards. We were only gone for three days but I had things dialed in that I could have stayed 3 weeks out there.
The great gear hunt is because there aren't a lot of mentors out there. People have more money and can through the Internet get themselves all sort of sideways. Mentors often share with their family but will not go beyond that. Other ones with experience come off as hard and bitter as Sourdough.
There are a lot of good mentors out there. There are also a lot of different views to what is acceptable for technology or no technology. Bob Cassell is one of the best sheep hunters that I know. He uses far reaching rifles tuned to perfection in exceptional calibers to take monster sheep. There is probably a lot of av gas tied up into every monster that he has taken. Many sheep hunters have different goals. Some want a sheep from every range. Some want the biggest ram. Others just love the experience and the country above treeline. Sheephunting is a special thing and I do believe that you are closer to God when you are up there.
My part time job is selling camping stuff at a local box store. I can tell you that I have set many young people on sheep hunting and I have used my knowledge to help people with a TMA tag or those that have that hunger and glazed over look that says-----I want this and I will die to get it.
It all comes to time vs. money. You can shoot a sheep with your caribou rifle, tennis shoes and a tarp if you have enough time and grit. Sourdough made a claim that there were several places that you could start in the morning, go up and shoot a sheep, and get done in time to get pizza or a burger on the way home. He might remember things being that way. In the early 1970s pre ANILCA, you could do it. Yes, some people do luck out and just are at the right place but that isn't the norm.
I was talking with one of my friends who is a pilot in TMA and might be one of the best in there. When he was young he heard stories about monster sheep shot in the Tonsina Walkin area.(This was before many guides and many hunters have made this one of the more over hunted units in the state.) He and his friend who were from Mentasta area hiked in an old Guy George horsetrail and got up into one of the bowls above the drainage of a certain creek that he was advised to do by an incredible guide, hunter and taxidermist who still lives on the Tok Cutoff. They ran into two full curl rams that were barely full curl. They got about two hundred yards from the rams and noticed two hunters who had watched this guy and his friend hike in and followed them in. He waited till they got to where they were gathered on a little knoll that was hidden from the rams that were feeding. The two new hunters asked when this guy and his friend were going to shoot the two biggest rams. The guy had visions of 40 inch ram with lamb tips that might hit that magic 43 inch mark that he had set his sights on. It was the first day and he thought, well there are probably bigger sheep further in. The two hunters shot the sheep which were huge, more than 40 inches with monster bases and lots of mass all the way to the end. The guy and friend never found another ram in the unit and went home empty handed. The issue was that the sheep that he had grown up with and the people he had grown up with only would mount true monsters. He had just established a norm that was way beyond what other hunters would.
I put that story in because those days do happen. There is a dental clinic up here in Fairbanks that has probably four or five complete sheep fanatics working there. One of the dentists was new but he was a great hunter and did not have the capital that his fellow dentists had. The owner of the clinic went out and hired a very good guide in a great area and shot a 38 incher. The other dentist spent 4K on a charter out to the Brooks and shot a 37 incher. He came to me and wanted to know what he should do. He didn't have the time or money. I knew a place that was close to the road that had not been hunted for a couple of years. I sent him up there with his sheep partner. They came back with two legal rams and the dentist had shot a 39 inch ram. This was three years ago. But this is not the norm and I did not expect the dentist to actually succeed. I figured that this was going to be a good learning experience and that there might be a legal ram up there.
I would say that there are very many more guides now than then and very much less opportunity now than then. Sourdough would do a very much better job about teaching people how to survive in the mountains that puffing about all of the resident hunting opportunities and legal rams living by the road.
Thunder
FNG
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2021
- Messages
- 81
And where did you hear this? Please cite your sources.
killing eagles? What a clown!
Thunder
I’m not following the last comment.
Killing Eagles?What a clown
His source is Federal Law you can look it up.
Anyone around in the 70s knows what a mess that was.Congress banded DDT and more poisons when the bald Eagles were endangered.
I know that in the 70s killing Eagles, Hawks etc
it Became a Federal offense.
Only certain Indian tribes could even possess some of that stuff.
Who is a clown?
I did not get it.
I’m not following the last comment.
Killing Eagles?What a clown
His source is Federal Law you can look it up.
Anyone around in the 70s knows what a mess that was.Congress banded DDT and more poisons when the bald Eagles were endangered.
I know that in the 70s killing Eagles, Hawks etc
it Became a Federal offense.
Only certain Indian tribes could even possess some of that stuff.
Who is a clown?
I did not get it.
Nick Muche
WKR
I heard about that one, did you ask him about the meat or his lack of will/due diligence to pack the ram off the mountain?
wildwilderness
WKR
This was in response to a previous thread that I dont think you read?
they suggested Fish and game pay a bounty on predators- my comment is they can’t even fund sheep counts, let alone pay out bounties.
My sources are anecdotal from all the state biologists I call every year complain about a lack of funding for sheep….
the Golden Eagle reply was the same post where the concerned poster knew of severe Golden Eagle predation on lambs. They suggested getting Fish and game or FWS to study and get a depredation permit to kill the specific eagles- My comment was that would never happen with the Govt, especially the current federal administration.
Are you an AK resident sheep hunter?
And who’s the clown you are referring to?
VernAK
WKR
This blizzard we are currently experiencing will give DCUA sheep an early winter and two more storms are coming up the chain. It's nasty here!
Thunder
FNG
- Joined
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- 81
Yes I am and you are the clown who I’m referring to.
who are you talking to about lack of funding? With the P&R funds the ADFG doesn’t even know what to do with all the money. So who specifically were you talking to? Or are you just talking out your butt? <—— rhetorical question…
There’s no debate that eagles kill a few sheep here and there. It’s been researched, but if you think killing the eagles is going to even remotely make a noticeable difference you’re a bigger clown than I originally thought.
The only thing that delayed counts this year was weather. And the counts were still conducted. But you didn’t know that.
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Thunder
FNG
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This study was done for free due to lack of funding 
:
:
Is that presentation (or the study it is referencing) 7 years old?
:I can, with confidence, attest to a substantial lack of funding for ADFG.
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Thunder
FNG
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Really? Please elaborate? Let’s keep this on sheep, what isn’t getting funded? And whom are making these claims? We must converse with different ADFG sheep biologists because I’ve heard the opposite problem. Obama did wonders for our ADFG budgets. I’m sure Biden is helping it a lot too. Go buy another AR rifle.
You can get on here and type lies all you want, just remember people will call you out on them.
Bagging on a 7 year old study? Hahaha you two could start a circus…. Also yes that’s a presentation based on a sheep study. Did your mind just get blown???
wildwilderness
WKR
I don’t think you read the original post- I wasn’t the one who brought up the Eagle predation, however thanks for supplying the 7+ year old study showing Eagles as the main source of predation on lambs.
“With the P&R funds the ADFG doesn’t even know what to do with all the money.” - sounds like a political statement? What’s your bias?
What are your sources? No one I have ever spoken to complains of too much money? Furthermore even if your hypothetical glut of money did exists Sheep research is low down on ADFG priorities- salmon, moose, caribou are much much higher.
I did know, despite your false claim to the contrary, that counts were done in select areas. I spoke to a couple biologists, and based on that killed a ram this year.
However they have never counted sheep statewide and never on an annual basis, and according to the anecdotal info from the bio it’s a last minute thing depending on funds, and weather- not a priority.
I don’t claim any special info or political bias, just want more sheep on the mountain. I’m just a dentist now- my name is on my profile, but have an undergraduate degree in conservation biology and previously worked at Fish and game in another state.
It appears statewide population numbers are half of what it was, and significantly less than that in some hard hit areas. I think we would all like to help the sheep out. Part of that is getting it a priority for ADFG
Thunder
FNG
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Thank you for not answering my questions. Like I thought the “lack of funding” you came up with was just that, a lie. I like how you try to counter it with salmon moose etc. The sheep biologists get what they need and then some to do their job and fund studies, perform counts etc. They don’t get “leftover” money like you claimed. You know why they don’t do counts every year? Because it’s not needed. No game agency counts all the animals they are responsible for every year.
Keep making false claims. Still waiting for you to tell where you heard sheep get leftover money and nothing can be done due to lack of funding. PM is fine so I don’t want you to blast his name on the WWW.
I'm not sure why you brought up your a dentist? Does that make you a more legitimate source? Are you trying to solicit business? Are dentists pillars of the community for truth? Thanks though, I think you've brought up in enough threads your occupation. I would want transparency with my doctor and wouldn't want him misleading people. So if this was a solicitation its a hard pass.
We all want more sheep on the mountain. Sadly it’s likely not in anyone’s control. But to claim lack of funds as a reason? You better back that claim up.
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Thunder
FNG
- Joined
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Keep shooting squeakers and you'll have to go by your recommendation of SSS....
Not bagging on a 7yr study. Asked a simple question and got a defensive response.
I was referencing ADFG funding as a whole, not specific to sheep. I have zero information regarding sheep specific funds needs or levels.
A Circus could generate some revenue! Would you be interested in being the main act? I'll get the crowd warmed up for you.
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