Axis vs Victory - the FOC bandwagon

[sickles107]

Been tossing around the idea of switching up my arrow setup. Curious what you guys have experience with or think.

Current bow setup:
- VXR 31.5 - 70#/30"/80% (pulls around 73 with limbs fully seated)

Current arrow setup:
- Axis 300 spine, 29" carbon, 50gr insert, 100gr head, 3 AAE max hunter, x nock
- TAW ends up right around 500gr, good for long antelope shots but still good weight for elk.

Looking into Victory arrows, specifically RIP TKO since only the TKOs are offered in a 250 spine. Thinking:
- RIP TKO 250 spine, 29"carbon, 100gr up front (either 75 brass and 25 collar, or 100 IW insert) ,100gr head, vanes and nock.
- TAW should be right around 500gr, same as axis though much better FOC


With the victory arrows being much less GPI, I can get more weight up front while keeping TAW around 500. While the cost is a bit more, I wonder if the increased FOC is worth it. I have a couple questions that some of you may have experience with.

1. With the RIP TKO .250 arrows being much less GPI, what does durability look like compared to an axis .300?

2. Given the cost, are the IW collars worth it? do they pull out of rinehart type targets hard? usually lose arrows in the grass/weeds from missing long range targets or pass through on animals. Rarely blow up arrows.

3. Curious for input on spine, given the bow setup, will the .250 spine with 100gr tune as easily as the .300 with 50gr insert?

4. Don't want to get into an FOC debate, though is the increased FOC worth it? I have had good penetration with my current setup, but all this talk on FOC these days has me thinking about tinkering to potentially improve arrow flight and results on a less than ideal shot too far forward.

 

[Shadowcaster]

Sounds like you're in about the same boat I was a couple weeks ago. Right now I have Axis .300's, 50gr inserts and 100 gr heads. I wanted to get more FOC while decreasing arrow weight, maintaining durability so I got some RIP TKO's in a .300 spine. I cant comment on how well they work as they're not even cut yet, much less assembled, merely giving ya an idea of where I went.

PSE Evolve 28
29.5 draw
RIP TKO V3 (.003 straightness)
50 gr Iron will insert
10 gr IW Titanium collar, was going to go with 25gr stainless collars, but I got impatient waiting for them to come back into stock.
Have both 100 and 125 gr QAD Exodus heads

With the 100 gr heads I should be at 460 gr TAW, with 125 I'll be at 485. I need to chrono my bow again, but if I'm over 280 fps with the 485's I'll run those.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've used Axis shafts and several other .204" arrows. Earlier this year I picked up some RIP TKO Elite 250's to try, mainly because of their weaved carbon design.....for strength and durability. Mine are cut to 30" CTC with 75gr brass HIT's and 125's and come in right at 500gr with 2" QS vanes and 4 x Q2i Fusion Xii 2.1" vanes. I shoot 70-75lbs and almost 33" draw and so far I absolutely love these arrows. I bought another dozen shafts "just because"......in case they get hard to get. I haven't seen a need for a collar, especially for just hunting. These are going to blow right through the elk I shoot with them.

Oh, and the only reason I used the 75gr HIT's was to get my arrows right around that 500gr mark just like most of my other .204" arrows. FOC was last on my mind. Although I did make up a few with regular 16gr HIT's to try with 3D for speed.

 

[Shadowcaster]

I've used Axis shafts and several other .204" arrows. Earlier this year I picked up some RIP TKO Elite 250's to try, mainly because of their weaved carbon design.....for strength and durability. Mine are cut to 30" CTC with 75gr brass HIT's and 125's and come in right at 500gr with 2" QS vanes and 4 x Q2i Fusion Xii 2.1" vanes. I shoot 70-75lbs and almost 33" draw and so far I absolutely love these arrows. I bought another dozen shafts "just because"......in case they get hard to get. I haven't seen a need for a collar, especially for just hunting. These are going to blow right through the elk I shoot with them.

How do you like those q2i's in a 2.1? Do you run mechanicals or fixed blade? Ive only used q2i fusions and I love them, but the 3" are pretty heavy. Ordered the 2.1's but haven't received them yet.

 

[5MilesBack]

How do you like those q2i's in a 2.1? Do you run mechanicals or fixed blade? Ive only used q2i fusions and I love them, but the 3" are pretty heavy. Ordered the 2.1's but haven't received them yet.

The regular Fusions are quite a bit different than the Fusion Xii's. The Regulars are very tall, while the Xii's are much shorter.......that's why I use them in a 4-fletch. And they work great with both mechanicals and fixed blades. I've used them in a 3-fletch with mechanicals, but they're much more consistent in a 4-fletch.

 

[Shadowcaster]

The regular Fusions are quite a bit different than the Fusion Xii's. The Regulars are very tall, while the Xii's are much shorter.......that's why I use them in a 4-fletch. And they work great with both mechanicals and fixed blades. I've used them in a 3-fletch with mechanicals, but they're much more consistent in a 4-fletch.

Oh sorry, yeah I've only used the Xii's, both the 3" and tried the 2.1 SL's. I wish they had a 2.5" or so in the SL, that's such a big leap going to the 3.5 SL.

 

[CApighunter]

I’ve got RIP TKO 250s on the way. Axis are great arrows but would put my total weight over where I want to be. Should come in around 485ish with 185gr up front. If you want to order the Victory’s, I’d highly reccomend south shore archery. Ordered last night and had a tracking number by 9 am today. Using the Iron will 50gr insert, 10 gr collar, day six and sevr 125gr head.

 

[Zac]

I use to say everyone should use an Axis due to the way they are manufactured. That being said some of them still need the nocks turned. If you are going to turn nocks anyways than you mine as well shoot whatever you want. In a practical sense I don't think you would gain anything over your current setup. Most people on here are going tell you collars are more of a pain than they are worth. However if you like tinkering and just want to change things up I'm sure it would be a good time.

 

[gelton]

I have found IW collars to be extremely durable with no noticeable extra effort to pull arrows out of targets especially using IW field points.

As for arrows, I am shooting BE Rampage and I have found them to be extremely brittle...never broke any on the point end (thanks to the collars) but barely nick one on the nock end and the arrow is destroyed.

Probably going to switch to the TKO's next year.

 

[nphunter]

The RIP TKO is more durable than the Axis and you will get much better FOC. I have built both the RIP TKO and Axis Match Grade with IW components and have killed elk with both.

My current arrow is a RIP TKO 300, IW 100gr insert, 25gr collar and comes in right at 500gr.

I was shooting an Axis 300 with 50gr brass and 10gr IW collars with the same TAW. They worked fine and killed elk as well as the TKO250’s I shot previously. I didn’t like that after several hundred shots in the targets the axis start breaking down, getting rough/dull and sticking to the targets a little. The TKO seems to get slicker and shinier the more I shoot them.

In 2019 I shot RIP TKO 250’s out of a different bow with 75gr brass and 25gr collars. They were great arrows, I only switched to axis because I could not get TKO’s.

I like my arrows right at 500gr, that puts me at 280fps which is where I like to be and IMO is a good compromise between speed and trajectory. I can also tune fixed head well at that speed.

For what it’s worth I sold my axis to buy TKO’s again and couldn’t be happier.

 

[sickles107]

All good info. though I would wait until after season, im still on the fence about making the plunge. Nocks, vanes, and points washed out, the below costs for a 500gr arrow makes the axis look pretty good given its proven performance, compared to RIP TKOs marginal real world difference on game. Will probably get a few RIP shafts this winter to play with..

Axis match 300 - 130 dz
Easton Brass inserts 50gr - 20 dz
150 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
IW inserts 100gr - 70 dz
270 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
Easton brass insert 75gr - 20 dz
IW collars 25gr - 70 dz
290 dz Total + nocks, vanes, points

 

[msalm]

I JUST had these exact arrows built for virtually the same bow. I have a V3 31” drawing 30” maxed out with 70lb cam at 85% let off. My RIP TKO 250’s are cut to 30” ctc and used the Victory 50gr collars/insert with 50gr added with 100gr heads. I have bohning reflective wraps and bohning x vanes 4 fletched. Arrow weight is 515gr and w/in a tenth of 15% FOC. Love these arrows although when tuning the new bow (at Mathews in Sparta), I still had a bit of low tear so the ‘tuner guy’ had me try 300 spine arrows. They flew perfectly and I was told I was over spine even with 200gr up front of the 250’s. He relented and adjusted the nock point up maybe 1/8” and all was good after that.I was thinking of the IW inserts/collar but am honestly happy I stuck with the Victory. They are hell for stout and and I see no fault with them.

I had one arrow that the insert seems mis-aligned, but it was the cheap target point, swapped for a new one and all of them spin dead true. I have an old dozen Axis 300’s I’ll refletch and use in my old bow, but I’m sold on these Victory’s with first impressions.

 

[msalm]

I Did lose one arrow from shooting at the same point at 40 yards though it was more my (bad) luck than skill. The point destroyed the arrow all the way to the target….so sad.

here’s a pic of the RIP’s w/ Victory’s collar vs axis. Wrong point on the Axis, but the RIP’s pull just fine from a Block target and 3D’s with no issue at all.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

All good info. though I would wait until after season, im still on the fence about making the plunge. Nocks, vanes, and points washed out, the below costs for a 500gr arrow makes the axis look pretty good given its proven performance, compared to RIP TKOs marginal real world difference on game. Will probably get a few RIP shafts this winter to play with..

Axis match 300 - 130 dz
Easton Brass inserts 50gr - 20 dz
150 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
IW inserts 100gr - 70 dz
270 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
Easton brass insert 75gr - 20 dz
IW collars 25gr - 70 dz
290 dz Total + nocks, vanes, points

IMO it's not worth the extra cost just to get more FOC. The purported penetration benefits of increased FOC are dubious at best. You'd be going from 11-ish% with the Axis to 16-ish% with the RIP... both setups are plenty lethal.

 

[Shadowcaster]

All good info. though I would wait until after season, im still on the fence about making the plunge. Nocks, vanes, and points washed out, the below costs for a 500gr arrow makes the axis look pretty good given its proven performance, compared to RIP TKOs marginal real world difference on game. Will probably get a few RIP shafts this winter to play with..

Axis match 300 - 130 dz
Easton Brass inserts 50gr - 20 dz
150 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
IW inserts 100gr - 70 dz
270 dz total + nocks, vanes, points

RIP TKO elite 250 - 200 dz
Easton brass insert 75gr - 20 dz
IW collars 25gr - 70 dz
290 dz Total + nocks, vanes, points

I got lucky, found a small bow shop who sells the RIP TKO's, I got gamers though. He sells them for 169, and he'll fletch and install inserts for that. You do it yourself, and he knocks 24 off. So 145. I mentioned I wont be using the victory outserts, so he bought those back from me. Out the door for 140/dz.

 

[sickles107]

I got lucky, found a small bow shop who sells the RIP TKO's, I got gamers though. He sells them for 169, and he'll fletch and install inserts for that. You do it yourself, and he knocks 24 off. So 145. I mentioned I wont be using the victory outserts, so he bought those back from me. Out the door for 140/dz.

Thats pretty good. Just looking around the internet, price and availability on the rip tko 250 v1 is definitely a concern as well, compared to axis.

 

[5MilesBack]

Ya, if FOC is the only reason you're looking to switch, then I wouldn't bother. But if you want a more durable arrow as well, then I'd take a look at them. You can order them individually from SSAS. That's what I did originally........ordered three to test out, then ordered 9 more to make a dozen, and then ordered another dozen after that. I'm hoping these will last me the next 30 years. Seriously. I broke at least 18 GT Kinetic XT 200's over the course of a couple years. Some of the most fragile arrows I've ever shot. These RIP TKO's are already ahead of the game compared to those.

 

[Shadowcaster]

Thats pretty good. Just looking around the internet, price and availability on the rip tko 250 v1 is definitely a concern as well, compared to axis.

Agreed. The axis' can be found anywhere, online or in store. RIP TKO's not so much. The guy I bought mine from said they slowly trickle in, a dozen here a dozen there. I'd guess he's early to mid 80's, so I plan on getting another 2 or 3 dozen while he's still in business in the next year or so.

 

[CApighunter]

Thats pretty good. Just looking around the internet, price and availability on the rip tko 250 v1 is definitely a concern as well, compared to axis.

My local shop has had them back ordered for two weeks. South Shore archery had them shipped in 15 hours. Very fair price too.

 

[wayoh22]

I too just made the switch from Axis 300's to TKO RIP 250's for the sole reason of having a more durable arrow. I love the Axis shafts and think everyone should at least give them a go, but the last batch I got, all of them snapped or bent at the insert just from hitting a rhinehart target. Hence the need for something more durable. If you're looking to change for the sole reaosn of more FOC, I don't think it's worth the cost. FOC has been beaten to death here in the past month or two I feel and the cost/reward ratio isn't worth it IMO.

As for the arrows themselves, I couldn't be more pleased. My setup:

Carbon Defiant 34 29/80#
Victory TKO RIP 250 cut to 28in
75g brass insert, iron will SS collar (25g), and 100g Oz Cut
4 fletch AAE Max Stealth