Carnivore Diet

[Glory]

I think I might be a week into it now. Pretty easy and it's amazing how little you actually eat for dinner. I really need to stay away from cheese though. That's my goal for this week.

I am climbing up on stronglifts 5x5. Started low so it's going to be another month before I get into heavier territory. So far I have been able to keep up with the program while eating carnivore.

 

[340bee]

I recently found out I was allergic to just about everything except wild game. Since switching to this diet 6 weeks ago all the issues I’ve been having the last 5 years seem to be improving. (Asthma, fatigue, stomach issues, weight gain, constant joint pain)

 

[dirtshooter]

Is it true, you get crazy diarrhea with this? lol

 

[fwafwow]

Is it true, you get crazy diarrhea with this? lol

I never did, but I made sure to eat some avocados each day.

 

[bdan68]

Is it true, you get crazy diarrhea with this? lol

I've been eating nothing but meat and eggs for a year now. Never had diarrhea due to my carnivore diet. What has caused it for me was a 72 hour fast and then eating too much when i break my fast.

 

[340bee]

Not until I had a cheat day. Really makes you think twice before reaching for junk.

 

[Hoodie]

It works for people for two reasons:

1) It makes it easy for them to stay in a deficit, so they lose weight. Anything else with a similar deficit would work equally well.
2) They're generally coming from an unhealthy diet to begin with, which is why they feel great on it.

The evidence for vegetable and fruit intake being correlated with better health outcomes is overwhelming. Lower risk of most, if not all cancers, and substantially reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in populations with highest plant food intakes. Fiber intake (only available through plants) lowers blood lipids.

Meat is great, has tons of important micronutrients, and protein intake is very important.

That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Eat your fruits and veggies. And your fish, lean meats, all that good stuff.

The effect of fruit and vegetable intake on risk for coronary heart disease - PubMed

Consumption of fruits and vegetables, particularly green leafy vegetables and vitamin C-rich fruits and vegetables, appears to have a protective effect against coronary heart disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Food and Cancer Risk

Some foods and the vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients found in them may raise or lower cancer risk. Researchers have been studying how the foods, nutrients, and eating patterns listed below are related to cancer.Plant-based foods. These foods contain naturally-occurring substances called...

www.cancer.net

Lipid Lowering with Soluble Dietary Fiber - PubMed

Consumption of dietary soluble fibers has been associated with health benefits such as reduced lipid levels, lower blood pressure, improved blood glucose control, weight loss, improved immune function, and reduced inflammation. Many of these health benefits relate to a reduced risk of developing...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[fwafwow]

It works for people for two reasons:

1) It makes it easy for them to stay in a deficit, so they lose weight. Anything else with a similar deficit would work equally well.
2) They're generally coming from an unhealthy diet to begin with, which is why they feel great on it.

The evidence for vegetable and fruit intake being correlated with better health outcomes is overwhelming. Lower risk of most, if not all cancers, and substantially reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in populations with highest plant food intakes. Fiber intake (only available through plants) lowers blood lipids.

Meat is great, has tons of important micronutrients, and protein intake is very important.

That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Eat your fruits and veggies. And your fish, lean meats, all that good stuff.

The effect of fruit and vegetable intake on risk for coronary heart disease - PubMed

Consumption of fruits and vegetables, particularly green leafy vegetables and vitamin C-rich fruits and vegetables, appears to have a protective effect against coronary heart disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Food and Cancer Risk

Some foods and the vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients found in them may raise or lower cancer risk. Researchers have been studying how the foods, nutrients, and eating patterns listed below are related to cancer.Plant-based foods. These foods contain naturally-occurring substances called...

www.cancer.net

Lipid Lowering with Soluble Dietary Fiber - PubMed

Consumption of dietary soluble fibers has been associated with health benefits such as reduced lipid levels, lower blood pressure, improved blood glucose control, weight loss, improved immune function, and reduced inflammation. Many of these health benefits relate to a reduced risk of developing...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I had to give up on the carnivore diet when I could no longer taste anything, which IMHO makes it much less appealing. I'm not a doctor, so it's meaningless to say so, but I agree with your conclusions to include fruits and vegetables, and to stay away from unhealthy stuff (for me I interpret that to include processed foods, sugars and vegetable oils - especially for frying). I don't personally believe in the lipid-heart hypothesis.

 

[Hoodie]

I had to give up on the carnivore diet when I could no longer taste anything, which IMHO makes it much less appealing. I'm not a doctor, so it's meaningless to say so, but I agree with your conclusions to include fruits and vegetables, and to stay away from unhealthy stuff (for me I interpret that to include processed foods, sugars and vegetable oils - especially for frying). I don't personally believe in the lipid-heart hypothesis.

There's definitely been a lot of pushback against it (the lipid hypothesis). I think it has as much evidence as pretty much anything.

Barbell Medicine is two doctors/strength coaches that put out a lot of content condensing research down into recommendations for regular people. They're a good source for non-fad nutrition info. They've got a great three part primer on cholesterol. It's really thorough. Third part addresses popular misconceptions (many of which come from the carnivore/keto crowd).

Cholesterol Myths & Misconceptions

Cholesterol plays many important roles in the body. Many people assume that blood levels reflect whether we have enough cholesterol available

www.barbellmedicine.com

At the end of the day though, balance is a good policy. People want complicated things made simple for them, which is why demonizing a single macronutrient has been so popular over the years. First it was fat, then it was carbs. Neither is bad, and both can be good for you provided you choose the right types.

 

[fwafwow]

There's definitely been a lot of pushback against it (the lipid hypothesis). I think it has as much evidence as pretty much anything.

Barbell Medicine is two doctors/strength coaches that put out a lot of content condensing research down into recommendations for regular people. They're a good source for non-fad nutrition info. They've got a great three part primer on cholesterol. It's really thorough. Third part addresses popular misconceptions (many of which come from the carnivore/keto crowd).

Cholesterol Myths & Misconceptions

Cholesterol plays many important roles in the body. Many people assume that blood levels reflect whether we have enough cholesterol available

www.barbellmedicine.com

At the end of the day though, balance is a good policy. People want complicated things made simple for them, which is why demonizing a single macronutrient has been so popular over the years. First it was fat, then it was carbs. Neither is bad, and both can be good for you provided you choose the right types.

Agree on the balance. As for an alternative hypotheses, I recommend folks read “The Clot Thickens” by Malcolm Kendrick.

 

[JohnB]

Well said Hoodie. Ever time someone raves about a diet making them lose 60 pounds in 3 months I roll my eyes at the health benefits. It's not some magic diet it's calories in<calories out.

 

[fwafwow]

Well said Hoodie. Ever time someone raves about a diet making them lose 60 pounds in 3 months I roll my eyes at the health benefits. It's not some magic diet it's calories in<calories out.

Fwiw, I found it a lot easier to keep my calories down when they when they were more protein and fat. I was much less hungry.

 

[bdan68]

 

[winnow]

I did a 95% carnivore diet for about 6 months. One meal a day at the end of the day. A sous vide machine is your friend.

I had a steak almost everyday with a raw egg yolk to sauce it up. There was some onion and garlic powder involved as well. The odd stray leaf from a sprig of rosemary was also consumed. High quality butter was around as well.

Usually about once a week I would indulge in some fast food.

I work on call in the oil field which can make sticking with a diet rather difficult. But, I managed it by dropping a vacuumed sealed bag with the meat and flavorings into sous vid before I went out into the field. When I got home, the steak would be waiting for me at the perfect temperature ready to sear.

 

[AK Shane]

Curious if anyone has tracked their health stats while on this diet; blood pressure, cholesterol, etc? All the benefits people are describing (weight loss, mental clarity, less hungry, ect.) are the same people get by cutting out processed sugars, gluten and processed grains. So why not just cut those thing out of your diet? Wouldn't it do the same thing but let you maintain all the health benefits of fruits and vegetables?

 

[Hoodie]

Curious if anyone has tracked their health stats while on this diet; blood pressure, cholesterol, etc? All the benefits people are describing (weight loss, mental clarity, less hungry, ect.) are the same people get by cutting out processed sugars, gluten and processed grains. So why not just cut those thing out of your diet? Wouldn't it do the same thing but let you maintain all the health benefits of fruits and vegetables?

It almost certainly would.

N=1. After a 6 month stint of keto (not carnivore), all my markers were the same with the exception of cholesterol, which increased enough for me to get concerned about lowering it. I didn't have a ton of weight to lose and my blood pressure was already fine. It's pretty common for overweight people to lose weight and see a big improvement in blood pressure and triglycerides on keto, but LDL and total cholesterol go up. This makes sense because dietary saturated fat is the number one thing outside of genes that impacts LDL.

The question then becomes whether or not you think LDL is an independent risk factor for bad stuff. I think the evidence is very strong that it is. Others disagree.

If I had a good reason to cut carbs again, I'd eat a lot more salmon, avocados, olive oil, nuts, etc. More mono and poly unsaturated fats. Less ribeye and bacon. and I probably wouldn't put butter, heavy cream, and coconut oil in my coffee.

But I did have a good time.

 

[fwafwow]

Curious if anyone has tracked their health stats while on this diet; blood pressure, cholesterol, etc? All the benefits people are describing (weight loss, mental clarity, less hungry, ect.) are the same people get by cutting out processed sugars, gluten and processed grains. So why not just cut those thing out of your diet? Wouldn't it do the same thing but let you maintain all the health benefits of fruits and vegetables?

I did. My BP was fine to begin with, and my cholesterol actually went down. I personally do not believe that cholesterol causes CVD, so I didn't care whether it decreased or not. My cholesterol numbers have since gone back up, which could be due to me not being on the high protein and fat diet as much, because I'm back to eating some processed foods, or both. Or something else.

 

[Sapcut]

There aren't but three foods....fat, protein and carbs, which are like you say "sugars, gluten and processed grains". ... better known as essential fats, essential amino acids and....uhhh.... Well there are no essential carbohydrates. You're exactly right, cut those killer carbs out of your diet and you have only two choices left. Essential, highly nutrient dense, bioavailable foods. If you just have to have fruits and vegetables, you will have to eat a pile of them to get any benefits. They are very low bioavailable and absorbable. And you need to eat them round the clock to get any benefit especially compared to quality (wilder the better) animal products. You know, kind of like what herbivores do. They eat veggies the majority of a 24 hour day and digest veggies 24 hours per day. They have a four chamber stomach that is specifically designed and required to get sufficient nutrients to turn said veggies into the super nutrient dense meat that is 100% bioavailble for the human body.

When I began eating very animal based foods mainly venison and wild hog that I harvest, pastured duck eggs, salmon, bacon, butter, etc., my HDL went up from 38 to 55 rather quickly (last I checked) and probably still rising. LDL went up as well. HDL matters, LDL not so much. Heart attacks occur half of the time with high LDL and half with low LDL. However, HDL is a much greater predictor of cardiac events. The higher the HDL the better. ApoB, the size of LDL particles matter as well. One big reason LDL goes up on the keto or carnivore type diet is the huge decrease of insulin in the blood. When insulin is in the bloodstream it prevents the release, or burn, of fatty acids from body fat. Then when insulin is not in the blood, the fatty acids are released into the bloodstream as body fat is burned. Now that blood will test as high LDL. Not at bad thing at all.

The best way to get HDL and big fluffy ApoB particles is to eat saturated fat. Don't avoid it. Avoiding animal saturated fat has erroneously been going on the last 50+ years and look how that is going for the obese and diabetic world. The good saturated fat has been replaced with carbs and carbs are killing everyone in many ways. Avoid carbs, don't avoid saturated fat.

You will never meet anyone who is unhealthy because they cut the carbs for animal products but look at epidemic of all the sad, obese, diabetic, diseased folks who eat carbs and avoid fat.

 

[Hoodie]

You will never meet anyone who is unhealthy because they cut the carbs for animal products but look at epidemic of all the sad, obese, diabetic, diseased folks who eat carbs and avoid fat.

I don't know a single obese person who got that way eating whole grain breads and brown rice. I know a ton who got that way eating doughnuts.

Obese people in America don't eat carbs at the expense of saturated fat. They eat carbs in addition to it. The foods that make people obese in the standard American diet are heavy on both carbs and saturated fat. Pizza, french fries, potato chips, doughnuts, etc.

There's only one scientifically validated way to lose bodyfat. It's being in a caloric deficit. People who go on low carb diets lose weight because they are in a deficit. It's suddenly easier for them to be in a deficit because they just massively restricted their options. If they cut fats they'd lose weight just as well. According to literally every well designed study that's ever been done on it.

Fat loss depends on energy deficit only, independently of the method for weight loss - PubMed

This study showed that independently of the method for weight loss, the negative energy balance alone is responsible for weight reduction.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Moreover, you can eat a larger volume of food at the same deficit by cutting fats. Fat has 9 calories per gram. Carbohydrates and proteins have 4.

This dude gets people to 5% bodyfat for bodybuilding shows for a living. He has people eat plenty of carbs.

 

[Sapcut]

Although I am not emphazing any type of weight loss program but rather the best way for humans to eat. But correct you can loose weight on nearly every diet around. The common denominator in all those diets is cutting carbs. If you eat carbs, you raise blood sugar then raise insulin (fat storage hormone) then gain body fat. If you eat carbs and saturated fat you gain body fat but eating high saturated fat and protein does not make you fat without raising insulin from the carbs.

And I don't know anyone that eats whole grain bread and brown rice that doesn't raise blood sugar requiring insulin to bring it down. They are carbs and turn to sugar every time and if not burned for energy immediately they are stored as fat. Then your body is living on it's next meal, not body fat for energy. That is how animal based diets allow one to loose extra body fat by living on it for energy.

Remember, we as a sick society is working backwards here. We're not supposed to have a bunch of extra fat on us or unhealthy because of what we eat. But we do and are so we work backwards on losing body fat and getting nutrients in our body. If we eat nutrient dense foods that humans can actually use then we wouldn't be fat and sick. If you eat carbs and use them as energy immediately you will limit body fat but you still don't get the nutrients to be healthy. There is no way without eating mostly, if not all, animal products. There is no down side that I know of from eating majority of quality animal products but there is a down side to not and instead eating anything else as the majority.

Illness, disease and ailments that are everywhere you look aren't only very largely solved by going back to eating quality animal foods but more like the reason for illness is the lack of animal foods in our diet.