Colorado “Managing Wildlife in an Era of Mutualism.”

[Okhotnik]

You can't, but you knew that. Voters killed lion hunting; elk numbers are too low for otc. The fact remains that hunting is still happening in CA. Last year the commission unanimously voted down a petition to halt bear hunting. So not everything is negative. Is everything great here? Absolutely not. Colorado hunters better learn quick from CA, OR, WA, etc. If enough Colorado hunters make some noise it will be to their benefit. I'd guess a large number won't lift a finger until it's too late.

will progressive voters support hunting seasons in Colorado and will they support wolf management like they do in WA, OR, MI, MN, WI?

 

[Overdrive]

has California shut down hunting seasons the past two decades? You stated that California has never shut down hunting seasons in your post. Did California shut down hunting seasons because they were making too much money off of license sales?

Is that true or false? lol



Will wolves increase elk, deer and moose populations in Colorado?Will more tags be issued 10 years from now so Colorado needs more money?

No you need to re read what I wrote, I said hunting hasn't gone away in California, there's still hunting happening in California. There's more than just big game hunting in California.

I could care less about the wolves and scare tactics everyone wants to use, I've hunted and guided with wolf packs around since 2004 in Colorado, the packs come and go and I haven't seen or had a hard time finding deer, elk or moose still living and thriving. Just because the CPW is being forced to dump wolves here doesn't mean they're going to stay here. If it's such good habitat for wolves the packs over the last 2 decades would have stayed, but they didn't.

I was talking with my friend I guide with that was helping his cousin on a bear hunt in Montana, they hunted an area with high wolf activity. Even the locals claim there's no elk and it's poor hunting because of the wolves, but funny he was seeing elk and fresh tracks every day out glassing for bears. It must be an excuse for poor hunters to blame wolves for their lack of hunting skill.

 

[Beendare]

Polis, CSU Pathways conference to focus on shifting values in wildlife management

Just came across this concerning article talking about Colorado moving its wildlife management into and “era of mutualism” due to changing values in the state. Are we seeing the beginning of end of hunting in Colorado?

“societal values toward wildlife have shifted in the United States toward more of a “mutualist” perspective, meaning people are more focused on wildlife protection and compassionate management”

This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve seen. Mutualist is another way of saying they are Injecting politics into wildlife management.

Wolves don’t care about politics….they kill to eat. Politics won’t change that.

 

[Okhotnik]

No you need to re read what I wrote, I said hunting hasn't gone away in California, there's still hunting happening in California. There's more than just big game hunting in California.

I could care less about the wolves and scare tactics everyone wants to use, I've hunted and guided with wolf packs around since 2004 in Colorado, the packs come and go and I haven't seen or had a hard time finding deer, elk or moose still living and thriving. Just because the CPW is being forced to dump wolves here doesn't mean they're going to stay here. If it's such good habitat for wolves the packs over the last 2 decades would have stayed, but they didn't.

I was talking with my friend I guide with that was helping his cousin on a bear hunt in Montana, they hunted an area with high wolf activity. Even the locals claim there's no elk and it's poor hunting because of the wolves, but funny he was seeing elk and fresh tracks every day out glassing for bears. It must be an excuse for poor hunters to blame wolves for their lack of hunting skill.

lol. Your friend saw some elk in Idaho when visiting, so wolves there have no impact on the elk , moose, deer populations? Thanks for demonstrating my point that using feelings and emotions of those who have zero experience with predators, hunting, manage our wildlife populations.


Again you stated that California progressive politics and using emotions to manage hunting seasons has not affected hunting but they shut down mountain lion season completely even though their populations are exploding. They have greatly cut back on deer and elk tags too the past few decades. And progressive Washington state just banned spring bear season purely based on liberals' emotions. Bear pops are at all time highs there now.

You can't make up this clown world some fools live in now

 

[Overdrive]

lol. Your friend saw some elk in Idaho when visiting, so wolves there have no impact on the elk , moose, deer populations? Thanks for demonstrating my point that using feelings and emotions of those who have zero experience with predators, hunting, manage our wildlife populations.


Again you stated that California progressive politics and using emotions to manage hunting seasons has not affected hunting but they shut down mountain lion season completely even though their populations are exploding. They have greatly cut back on deer and elk tags too the past few decades. And progressive Washington state just banned spring bear season purely based on liberals' emotions. Bear pops are at all time highs there now.

You can't make up this clown world some fools live in now

Where did I mention Idaho?

So Mtn Lions have been protected since 1990 in California and now there's no hunting seasons at all for any species is what your trying to say. Bull there is still hunting seasons in California. Take the tin foil hat off. Like I said from the start there is still hunting in California, I guided guys from California the last 2 years that hunt hogs, deer, upland birds, coyotes and waterfowl every year.

There are a lot more factors to ungulate pops dropping than just predators.

 

[Rich M]

Was talking to a guy about bird feeders and the subject of squirrels came up - he said he couldn't take a life, they were just trying to eat too.

Welcome to the future. Where squirrels and rats have rights too. Just little people in fur coats.

 

[Rob5589]

lol. Your friend saw some elk in Idaho when visiting, so wolves there have no impact on the elk , moose, deer populations? Thanks for demonstrating my point that using feelings and emotions of those who have zero experience with predators, hunting, manage our wildlife populations.


Again you stated that California progressive politics and using emotions to manage hunting seasons has not affected hunting but they shut down mountain lion season completely even though their populations are exploding. They have greatly cut back on deer and elk tags too the past few decades. And progressive Washington state just banned spring bear season purely based on liberals' emotions. Bear pops are at all time highs there now.

You can't make up this clown world some fools live in now

Deer populations in CA have been in trouble for a while. Many factors going on there. Last I read the commission was talking about increasing elk tags. Not sure what came of it, need to follow up. Lion was shut down by voters over 30 years ago. Yes of course there are political and emotional components that have come into play. But not every single time.

 

[dlee56]

Thanks guys. Glad I made a post about a specific article in CO with some weird politics taking place, just to watch you all complain about other states and bicker over insignificant details.

 

[fngTony]

Looks like it did get off course.
Being an important topic let’s get this back on track. Always good to be aware of how this had played out in other places but let’s tie this in to Colorado instead of bickering over arbitrary details.

 

[cuttingedge]

Polis is worth 400 million. He is a financial force to be reckoned with, but he is in his last term thank God.

If people with traditional values don't get off of their arses and vote in mass, the world as we appreciate it is doomed. Waiting for, or counting on the other guy to tote the load is not going to cut it anymore.

I reckon there were people at the capital today demanding gun bans. It won't take much pushing in, I mean on Polis to get him to sign them.

 

[bow_hiker]

I hate to be a downer but anyone who has lived in CO over the past decade has seen what has become of the politics. Denver metro gets to decide almost everything for the entire state. And with the Pueblo (plus other less populated southern areas) vote almost always in line with Denver and the springs and Junction vote starting to lean that way too the population dense centers can just out vote the entirety of the rest of the state. Look how the wolf vote went and that's with some resources to fight back. We lost spring bear 30 years ago! Personally I will support those organization that help hunting. I feel like that's the best thing I can do on top of my vote.

 

[Wrench]

This is the direct result of breaking the two parent home and requiring both to work. Family time diminished, it became easier to kill food and do simple labor with a paycheck. Average home size tripled and time in the field shrank......and here we are.

 

[Overdrive]

Sorry for getting off track a little.

Colorado has such a diverse crowd when it comes to recreation, I can only imagine the headaches that CPW has to deal with. And just guessing there's maybe 250,000 hunters among a population of 6 million in the state, so yes we're in the minority. Our voting won't do much, if a person really wants change they better get into the political ring and get it changed from there. I personally have no interest in doing that, anyone else?

The whole deal of letting the sitting Governor appoint people he wants as commissioners of the CPW needs to be voided, They either need to work their way up through the ranks or voted in by the pubic that way hunters can have some kind of voice in choosing men and woman that actually take wildlife issues to heart and aren't another checked box for political reasons. I don't know how other states select their commissioners so maybe someone can chime in on that.

Hopefully we can get something on the books for The Right to Hunt in Colorado in the next couple years or our voice will really be taking a back seat.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

A large portion of Americans have no idea where their food comes from including meat and the conditions of factory farming. Look at the list of chemicals on all of the processed foods consumed by the average American. Look at sky rocketing obesity rates, sky rocket diabetes rates, etc. Americans choose not to be concerned about their food sources and quality of sources. They purposefully chose ignorance if it doesn't fit into their world views.

Ask a vegan if hunting is better for the environment than factory farming GMO veggies, fruits and grains and seed oils

Americans are very disconnected from their food sources and environment,

100% agree

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Looks like it did get off course.
Being an important topic let’s get this back on track. Always good to be aware of how this had played out in other places but let’s tie this in to Colorado instead of bickering over arbitrary details.

Could have sworn you guys perma banned the sh*t stirrer a while ago!

 

[Szwampdonkey]

This sort of stuff is a direct result of conservative minded people ignoring what the urban liberals are up to thinking it won’t effect them out in the sticks. Even worse, hunters, outdoorsman, and other general freedom loving Americans who bizarrely vote for liberal candidates because they support one dang issue the Lib supports, legalizing pot for example.

People need to wake up or CO continues down this path of catering more to pot smoking rainbow colored hair hikers and campers instead of the true conservationists, hunters. Other states seem to watch what states like CO do in these topics then follow suit and the spiraling of drain continues.

 

[Titan_Bow]

I've lived in the urban corridor of the Colorado Front Range for nearly 20 years now. Sure, there are a lot of people here that have no clue about wildlife, no clue about how it is managed, etc. They typically don't know or care to understand land use rules or anything else that affects our wildlife. But, what I see as I interact with people, at work, or neighbors or friends of the wife, etc. is that most people are just ignorant of the realities. Yes, there is a subset of angry or militant activists, but the vast majority of the voting public here, just simply is unaware. I have had very pleasant conversations with neighbors, shared deer and elk meat with neighbors, had cook outs, etc. and have really seen that people are usually in favor of hunting and conservation if they understood it better.
What doesn't work however is putting people in labeled boxes, treating other people like they are the enemy, being so dogmatic in your point of view that you immediately alienate "the other side". If you look at how the wolf vote went here. So many people I talked to that were likely democrat voters, I would tell them about the wolves already here, how they have been migrating down from Wyoming for years, how I've heard and seen them in the Zirkels. They had no clue. When framed in that way, I'd then go on to say, I simply am against the government spending our money on something that is already happening and is inevitable. What I found is that everyone I talked to from this perspective was in agreement.
However, the tone I saw from our side was mainly scare tactics, fear, pictures of bloody dead cows, doom and gloom, etc. That was never going to resonate with anyone who was ignorant of the facts, it only came across as "the other side using fear tactics" . Alot of urban voters voted FOR Wolf introduction simply because "the other side" was against reintroduction. We all saw how well it worked in the end.
I'm not saying we don't stand up for what we believe in and hold strong to our values. However, if every issue is addressed in this "US VERSUS THEM" mentality, all we do is solidify the opposition and the shift moves faster away from where we want it to be. People have to figure out how to see each others similarities, and that they far outweigh their differences. Unfortunately, social media, news outlets, etc. have likely long poisoned the well for that to happen..

 

[ReaptheHeat]

I hate to be a downer but anyone who has lived in CO over the past decade has seen what has become of the politics. Denver metro gets to decide almost everything for the entire state. And with the Pueblo (plus other less populated southern areas) vote almost always in line with Denver and the springs and Junction vote starting to lean that way too the population dense centers can just out vote the entirety of the rest of the state. Look how the wolf vote went and that's with some resources to fight back. We lost spring bear 30 years ago! Personally I will support those organization that help hunting. I feel like that's the best thing I can do on top of my vote.

Not to derail the thread, but I've been getting increasingly interested in the direction eastern Oregon is going with their secession and joining Idaho. It might be a pipe dream, but could set a precedent for states like Colorado, California, and Washington.

 

[Okhotnik]

I've lived in the urban corridor of the Colorado Front Range for nearly 20 years now. Sure, there are a lot of people here that have no clue about wildlife, no clue about how it is managed, etc. They typically don't know or care to understand land use rules or anything else that affects our wildlife. But, what I see as I interact with people, at work, or neighbors or friends of the wife, etc. is that most people are just ignorant of the realities. Yes, there is a subset of angry or militant activists, but the vast majority of the voting public here, just simply is unaware. I have had very pleasant conversations with neighbors, shared deer and elk meat with neighbors, had cook outs, etc. and have really seen that people are usually in favor of hunting and conservation if they understood it better.
What doesn't work however is putting people in labeled boxes, treating other people like they are the enemy, being so dogmatic in your point of view that you immediately alienate "the other side". If you look at how the wolf vote went here. So many people I talked to that were likely democrat voters, I would tell them about the wolves already here, how they have been migrating down from Wyoming for years, how I've heard and seen them in the Zirkels. They had no clue. When framed in that way, I'd then go on to say, I simply am against the government spending our money on something that is already happening and is inevitable. What I found is that everyone I talked to from this perspective was in agreement.
However, the tone I saw from our side was mainly scare tactics, fear, pictures of bloody dead cows, doom and gloom, etc. That was never going to resonate with anyone who was ignorant of the facts, it only came across as "the other side using fear tactics" . Alot of urban voters voted FOR Wolf introduction simply because "the other side" was against reintroduction. We all saw how well it worked in the end.
I'm not saying we don't stand up for what we believe in and hold strong to our values. However, if every issue is addressed in this "US VERSUS THEM" mentality, all we do is solidify the opposition and the shift moves faster away from where we want it to be. People have to figure out how to see each others similarities, and that they far outweigh their differences. Unfortunately, social media, news outlets, etc. have likely long poisoned the well for that to happen..

Are these the same people who supported enthusiastically the termination of healthcare workers, first responders and military from their careers for not getting an experimental vaccine ? Many actually supported arrest and imprisonments for unvaxxed. We can work now with these types of folks? still see a lot of these types wearing masks and forcing their children to wear masks and getting boosters

How can one reason with these folks?

Logic and science sure won’t work. Lol

 

[Ynothunt41]

Not to derail the thread, but I've been getting increasingly interested in the direction eastern Oregon is going with their secession and joining Idaho. It might be a pipe dream, but could set a precedent for states like Colorado, California, and Washington.

It would be awesome to see that happen but I'm not sure how likely it is. Better to try than just give up.