Elk .243 or 25-06

[Trapperkid]

I adore my 243, and I intend to kill an elk with it when I get a chance. (but I’m going to use my brain). With that said though the 2506 is what the 243 wishes it could be. Virtually the same recoil and better trajectory and it’s much faster.

 

[Short Track]

I adore my 243, and I intend to kill an elk with it when I get a chance. (but I’m going to use my brain). With that said though the 2506 is what the 243 wishes it could be. Virtually the same recoil and better trajectory and it’s much faster.

Not the same recoil. 100gr bullet in both, the 25-06 has 10% more recoil.

 

[2Stamp]

I have a handload for my 25-06 (100gr Barnes TSX) that works very well on elk. All have expanded like a Barnes should.

 

[Esq]

Older thread here,, but I've been reading the massive. 223 thread and imagining that my 243 is much more capable that I ever thought. So, not to post about the 243 in the 223 thread, I thought this might be a better spot. I don't handload yet, so I'm looking for the best factory deer + elk bullet. I don't see any factory offerings in the 95g TMK and in any event, they may fly a touch fast for deep penetration on closer shots. Just basing that on reading performance of the 77g TMKs from the 223. I see Hornady has a 90g Eldx flying at 3150fps, and maybe that's the ticket. Where I hunt shots will be 75 yds to 400. After reading a bunch of the 223 thread I really thought maybe I should cut my 243 barrel really short to add a can and slow the velocity down on purpose to get optimal effect from the 95g TMK, but maybe that's a dumb idea. Idk, it's late and I've read way too much RS tonight.

 

[Esq]

I did some more reading and found that my basic question has already been answered by Form. NBT or Partitions are good choices, maybe the best. Still interested in hearing experiences with the eldx.

 

[kyarcher]

I would keep using the 270 with Barnes TTSX

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I would keep using the 270 with Barnes TTSX

^^^!

 

[GringoBling]

A .270 with a muzzle brake won't have too much more recoil than those smaller calibers. Yes, I know it's feasible, but why increase the odds of a lost elk if your shot isn't perfect? At most, I have taken 3 shots on a bull. When I'm in the field in the heat of the moment, I don't even feel the recoil or hear the shot.

 

[Short Track]

I don't even feel the recoil or hear the shot.

But your ears still get damaged. Especially with a brake !!!

 

[Esq]

I've got 6-boys and a daughter hunting. Not enough big guns to go around, though we don't really all hunt together ever.

In any event, the whole point of the .223 thread, all 77-pages I think, is that the mighty .223 creates the same wound channel and kills with the same authority, sometimes even more so, than bigger "elk calibers." Using the right bullet, Sierra TMK 77g, or the 75g Speer Gold Dot, is essential to create the desired wound channel and hence kill. I also learned just how important bullet selection is with any caliber given all the factors at play in any given instance.

I would have been the first to say B.S., on the .223 for elk, but then I read the thread and viewed the evidence. Pretty compelling, even if it creates some cognitive dissonance.

 

[Zappaman]

I read about 1/2 the 223 thread posts and what I liked about it was that it confirmed a seasoned shooter, with the right bullet, at the right range CAN make a good clean kill GIVEN the gear (good scope at longer range) and experience exist in the equation. But let's admit that MOST of these guys posting on the 223 post HAVE the gear AND the experience to use it way out there, while younger hunters do not.

Heavy .224 bullets (shot out of a 223) have to have VERY good scopes to work WAY out there. Those 75s (and 77s) are dropping fast at 500 yards where SOME of those guys on the 223 post make kills-- dialing very expensive scopes with very accurate range finders. There is no other way to do it with that caliber at that range. AND... at that range wind is magnified as the bullet is going slower and dropping faster. BUT... if you make the hit, animal indeed dies.

Within 200 yards, any good 223 bullet will drop any deer and with good shot placement- and elk too. But I'd not let a young OR inexperience shooter take a poke at an elk with a 223 too far out. And, I'd not do it myself and here is why: I do NOT KNOW what range the elk (or deer) will be when I come up on it!

If an deer IS at 200 yards, pass me the 223 please If an elk is at the same range, pass me the 223 with a good bullet and ballistics I KNOW WELL... ok. But elk hunting in the places I hunt can be 60 - 600 yards. My 7mm RM can (and has) made that shot at either of those ranges without dailing (be some hold over going out past 300 yards though). But my bullet isn't at the "end" of its ballistic ability at 600 in the 7mm RM... so I don't need a $1400 scope to dail the "lob" shot.

I also doubt a 223 has what I'd consider "enough" energy to make a "clean" kill if the bullet is off by 4-6" at "elk" ranges I typically shoot (which it often over 300 yards). Elk past that range get "thicker" and I'll take the Partition when any hit in the general boiler or shoulders will be going down (so far for me anyway) and usually exit too.

But even an old dog like me can learn, and the 223 post just proves about any gun in the right hands can kill about anything-- ask the Eskimos who have used the 22 hornet to kill EVERYTHING since rifles existed-- to this day! Thus, I now actually use a 260ai with the Gold Dot (Fusion) 140 for elk and larger "mulies" with an oryx planned in 2024. I have the energy and accuracy out to 600 yards (where my scope stops working) to drop anything in North America. But I'll take the lighter gun and bullet over the old 7MM RM if I'm hauling the rifle all over the place (which I usually do) at 7 1/2 lbs (Vs. close to 10 lbs on the 7MM RM) now that I'm 50-something

So I get the lighter weight, low recoil killing machine that the 223 CAN be-- given you're willing to spend the time and money (scope) to make it work at longer range. I also LOVE the Fusion and Gold Dot bullets (* and I'm very sure they kill well out of 223s at medium range without a doubt on deer, or close in on elk- no argument there).

So if the extended family of hunters have good training, and know the limit of any 223 "set-up" they are using... I'm all about using the caliber at it's "usable and effective" range given the scope investment and experience of the hunters. My 15 yr old nephew was shooting my 223 into 2" at 200 yards when I gave it to him to kill his first pig... would work the same for him on a white tail, no doubt.

One of the BEST lessons any hunter can have is learning to accept their limits and pass on the "maybe" shot and instead wait for (or close the distance on) the RIGHT shot. Yes, anyone can kill an ek with a 22lr (or arrow)... IF they know what they are doing and are willing to work with the limits inherent with that selection of a weapon. But it gets more complicated (for new hunters) adding in the range finder (and dailing costs a lot of money). Less things to think about is the best policy for new hunters.

It IS all about practice for the younger hunter especially. But once they have the confidence, they CAN shoot as good as anyone. But shooting is just ONE element of the hunt... knowing what to do, how to work with wind, where to go when on a stalk, etc. are the part you learn over years (of usually making mistakes). Give them training, spend time at the range, and teach them about the gun and bullet they are going to be using and SET the limits for them based on their ability-- and they will make the kill with a 223 or 300 Win Mag

 

[Marble]

I wouldn't even leave the truck if my hunter or my partner showed up with a .223 on an elk hunting trip. It's just ridiculous.


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[Zappaman]

I wouldn't even leave the truck if my hunter or my partner showed up with a .223 on an elk hunting trip. It's just ridiculous.


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I have to agree... unless he pulls out his 500 yard target with 10x hits all over it with his $4,000 223 "long barrel" hunting rifle; AND the wind isn't blowing-- pretty rare possibility, eh?

But some guys just like to buy gear and push their limits (and luck)... I'm not one of those guys either.

 

[Marble]

I have to agree... unless he pulls out his 500 yard target with 10x hits all over it with his $4,000 223 "long barrel" hunting rifle; AND the wind isn't blowing-- pretty rare possibility, eh?

But some guys just like to buy gear and push their limits (and luck)... I'm not one of those guys either.

I frequently differ with a lot of people who are elk hunters and what is appropriate to shoot them with.

It's a high level discussion for a very select, super low percentage, of hunters who can do what they are describing. I just fear of gives info to people who don't know enough to choose wisely.

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[BigNate]

I think a well versed hunter with a small caliber gun is less of an issue than a novice who's over confident because they are using the latest in vogue magnum.

 

[Indian Summer]

Placement is EVERYTHING! My vote is for the .17 cal. I thought about a muzzle brake for my .22 but I’m just looking for an excuse to buy another big game rifle. Might use it for moose in Alaska. If I hunt griz up there though I’m sticking with the .22 because I want a heavier bullet.

 

[BigNate]

Placement is EVERYTHING! My vote is for the .17 cal. I thought about a muzzle brake for my .22 but I’m just looking for an excuse to buy another big game rifle. Might use it for moose in Alaska. If I hunt griz up there though I’m sticking with the .22 because I want a heavier bullet.

Sounds like you need to start your own thread and write up your conquest!

I'm sure everyone would like to tag along vicariously on your great adventure.

 

[Rich M]

I can understand wanting less recoil in a rifle. Went from hot 3006 to 243 and 350 Legend.

A 243 will kill an elk or a moose but there is something very unforgiving about a 100 gr bullet. Yes, it'll work but why do you want to use such a light projectile? I've been on the "help us find the 243 shot deer" missions in the woods after dark trying to find "Johnny's" buck. I would imagine an elk goes much further with a marginal shot than a whitetail. I do reload and shoot 243 for deer - 100 gr Nosler Partition. 125 yards, frontal and had stem to stern penetration.

You said you are 300 yards or less.

A 350 Legend will out-penetrate a 243 and possibly a 25-06 on an elk shoulder. It's a slow bullet and they make a 180 gr. Recoil is light, bullets are slow and penetrate well. Buddy of mine wants to do a cow elk hunt and I'm torn between my 350 Legend and 3006. I hate shooting the 3006 and really like the Legend. I can shoot a 180 gr bullet w Legend and shoot to 300 yards. I'd prefer a 200 yard shot.

If you reload, you could tame the 270, or get a 308 and load some mild 180 gr loads.

Anyway spend some time looking at Chuck Hawk's recoil tables - 243 and 2506 will kill an elk but there are better calibers out there that aren't hard hitting magnums.

 

[go_deep]

Placement is EVERYTHING! My vote is for the .17 cal. I thought about a muzzle brake for my .22 but I’m just looking for an excuse to buy another big game rifle. Might use it for moose in Alaska. If I hunt griz up there though I’m sticking with the .22 because I want a heavier bullet.

.22 is a good choice for a Grizzly

Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More

On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake. She was 63 years old.

www.ammoland.com

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I can understand wanting less recoil in a rifle. Went from hot 3006 to 243 and 350 Legend.

A 243 will kill an elk or a moose but there is something very unforgiving about a 100 gr bullet. Yes, it'll work but why do you want to use such a light projectile? I've been on the "help us find the 243 shot deer" missions in the woods after dark trying to find "Johnny's" buck. I would imagine an elk goes much further with a marginal shot than a whitetail. I do reload and shoot 243 for deer - 100 gr Nosler Partition. 125 yards, frontal and had stem to stern penetration.

You said you are 300 yards or less.

A 350 Legend will out-penetrate a 243 and possibly a 25-06 on an elk shoulder. It's a slow bullet and they make a 180 gr. Recoil is light, bullets are slow and penetrate well. Buddy of mine wants to do a cow elk hunt and I'm torn between my 350 Legend and 3006. I hate shooting the 3006 and really like the Legend. I can shoot a 180 gr bullet w Legend and shoot to 300 yards. I'd prefer a 200 yard shot.

If you reload, you could tame the 270, or get a 308 and load some mild 180 gr loads.

Anyway spend some time looking at Chuck Hawk's recoil tables - 243 and 2506 will kill an elk but there are better calibers out there that aren't hard hitting magnums.

The state of Iowa added all calibers from .35-.500 legal for whitetails in 2021. Prior to this, the .350 Legend had become the go-to whitetail round for all the reasons @Rich M mentioned. Low recoil, good penetration, and most notably, the ability to use in the AR platform. For guys with an existing .223/556 rifle, a quick upper swap and a couple new mags, and voila, they just created 2 rifles from one.

My girls had been shooting a CVA scout in .44 mag with great success on whitetails. However, when given the opportunity to shoot ACTUAL rifle rounds, I jumped at the opportunity. I sold the .44 and picked up a CVA scout in .35 Whelen. The rifle has a 25" barrel with muzzle brake and my 14 and 16 year old daughters are able to shoot 2" groups at 100 yards with it from a seated position, elbows braced by their knees. With 180 grain Speer Hot-Cors, this is not a hard recoiling rifle at all. Moreover, it is a far superior cartridge to the .350 and all other straight walls available. With 200 grain TTSX rounds, it will be a legitimate elk, moose, you name it round as well. So for a guy like me that tries to maximize the value of new rifle purchases, I now have a gun my daughters can shoot extremely well that is more than adequate for whitetails and any other big game animal on the continent.

Can the 223 do everything guys are saying it can do? Sure, for those 1% that have the time and equipment to reach this level of proficiency. However, it would not be choice simply because there are mild recoiling rounds that can do the job much better with greater margin for error.

That all being said, if you are limited to either a .243 or .25-06, I would go with the latter with the heaviest bullets you can find. I think Hammer bullets either has or is working on 130 or 140 grain loads for the .25. That could be a very accurate round with high BC, assuming there are barrels available to stabilize.