Griz guide/backup cartridge

[black dawg]

Only a few mentioned what bullet they would use? Seems like most people want really big bullets that contruction wise provide deep penetration. Do these bullets do much more than poke a big hole?

I have hunted with large caliber rifles (large to me.....hot 45/70, 35 whelen, 338wm) with controlled expansion hunting type bullets. With these type bullets, almost nothing died any quicker than the 270 with 130grn interlocks that I grew up hunting with. Most of These big bullets were also easier on meat.........most always, the 270 just did more damage. Have killed enough deer with 12g slugs to know that they do bleed out fast, but not trusting it to stop a bear before it is chewing on someone...

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with the 77tmk/223 as a I need to kill this bear now, right in front of me, but I dont know what I would feel comfortable with. Killed some deer and elk with a 225 partition/35 whelen, that was just flat ugly on meat. Very large wound cavity that started early and huge exit even on elk. Bullet must have been on the soft side for that velocity, but still good penetration. Never shot anything thicker than an elk, but I think that bullet/cartrige combo would do serious damage in short order.?

 

[gbflyer]

100% I’d choose an M4 with the 77TMK.

The wound channel is lethal and the hit rate is HIGH!

Period.

If you’re familiar with charging brown bear scenarios you’ll note that generally it happens quickly with little warning. There are a few YouTube’s that people have been skilled or lucky enough to capture. It’s a head - on affair more likely that not, and at close range. At best surviving it without stitches is 95% luck even with weapon at the ready. As an example to that, I don’t have a sling on any rifle I take to the bear woods. Attacks certainly don’t happen every day, most times a persons’ guard is down unless there’s a wounded bear involved. It’s not uncommon to only have time for one shot, rifle, pistol, or shotgun, unless a person has ice water in their veins which leaves most of us out. I know one guide like that and she’s a girl.

I would be hesitant to recommend using what experience tells us is going to be a single round of .224 diameter 77TMK in that scenario, I wouldn’t be confident in it holding together and delivering the penetration required to break bone and put a stop to the charge.

If there was a 100 yard shot available on a broadside feeding brown bear, out in the open…totally different scenario and I’m sure the TMK would be plenty adequate.

I know more than one bear guide. I don’t know any of them that use an M4 and a 77TMK for backup. Maybe they have it all wrong, however most of them are smart folks and like to come home to their families. If there was a better way, I’m sure they would get aboard.

One of the best thing’s believe it or not is a good dog. The biggest bear is scared silly of an aggressive 15# Jack Russell.

Hope that wasn’t condescending or TMI. Not the intent.

 

[Remington92]

I'm not sure what the right answer is but I will say I lost the warm fuzzy feel for my 45-70 after dispatching an angus bull with a broke leg for a friend. Admittedly my fault for not knowing the anatomy well enough but that bull shook off a shot from 4' away. Reconfirmed the old truth of shot placement is everything. That was a target standing still looking directly at me with no stress. Makes a guy pucker a little thinking of hitting a similar size target that's on a dead run at you with higher stakes on the table.

 

[FLATHEAD]

.223 and Grizzly should not be in the same sentence BTW.
Should be considered a grammatical error.

 

[Fatcamp]

Only a few mentioned what bullet they would use? Seems like most people want really big bullets that contruction wise provide deep penetration. Do these bullets do much more than poke a big hole?

I have hunted with large caliber rifles (large to me.....hot 45/70, 35 whelen, 338wm) with controlled expansion hunting type bullets. With these type bullets, almost nothing died any quicker than the 270 with 130grn interlocks that I grew up hunting with. Most of These big bullets were also easier on meat.........most always, the 270 just did more damage. Have killed enough deer with 12g slugs to know that they do bleed out fast, but not trusting it to stop a bear before it is chewing on someone...

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with the 77tmk/223 as a I need to kill this bear now, right in front of me, but I dont know what I would feel comfortable with. Killed some deer and elk with a 225 partition/35 whelen, that was just flat ugly on meat. Very large wound cavity that started early and huge exit even on elk. Bullet must have been on the soft side for that velocity, but still good penetration. Never shot anything thicker than an elk, but I think that bullet/cartrige combo would do serious damage in short order.?

Purpose built 12ga slugs for dangerous game are a different loading than slugs sold for deer. The idea being to wreck the nervous system rather than bleeding out.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I'd take my 375HH, it's done. a number on the bears I've shot with it. I stick to the 250g TTSx or 260g Accubond. The 260g Accubond has delivered outstanding results on everything I've shot with it.

 

[gbflyer]

I badly want to find a Lefty T3X and build a .416 Taylor. Usually when I get the bug it isn’t long. Haha.

 

[william schmaltz]

I really wish I had a pic that shows what an unhappy bear in the alders looks like when you are on a bear trail through the raspberry canes immediately in front of you.

Sometimes when I get engulfed by them God-forsaken raspberry canes, a bear coming along and taking me out of my misery seems like the best option!

 

[WCB]

If the situation arose that a wounded bear went into extremely thick cover where the encounter will no doubt be in close and I was unsure of the hit...Benelli M2 with quality penetrating slugs and extended mag (standard mag would be fine also I guess).

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good question black dawg on the bullet we would use. In my post on the first page, I was deliberate in saying a "well constructed bullet". That was to try and keep the bickering and dickering at a more acceptable level.

However, if it was to break bone to take out the Bears mobility and finish off the vitals, I would take a Barnes 225 TSX or one of the 250 grain original Barnes X I still have on the shelf in the 35 AI. The 225 TSX and 250 X will not come apart and can be pushed to very good velocity with newer powders. It's no secret around here that I am a Barnes fan, used them for 30 years. Recovered .358 X bullets (the only 2 from all calibers in 30 years) were the 200 X and 250 X from strong quartering shots on elk. 100% wt retention and .736" expanded frontal diameter on each bullet.

Guys have shared information and experience about the larger bores settling a fight. If I had something larger (other than the 45/70) than the 35 AI, I absolutely would consider it. To me, bullet momentum and frontal area make the medium bores and larger a good choice.

200 X and 250 X with their ivories.

 

[Mangata]

Sometimes when I get engulfed by them God-forsaken raspberry canes, a bear coming along and taking me out of my misery seems like the best option!

lol, no joke!!!

 

[Mangata]

Only a few mentioned what bullet they would use? Seems like most people want really big bullets that contruction wise provide deep penetration. Do these bullets do much more than poke a big hole?

I have hunted with large caliber rifles (large to me.....hot 45/70, 35 whelen, 338wm) with controlled expansion hunting type bullets. With these type bullets, almost nothing died any quicker than the 270 with 130grn interlocks that I grew up hunting with. Most of These big bullets were also easier on meat.........most always, the 270 just did more damage. Have killed enough deer with 12g slugs to know that they do bleed out fast, but not trusting it to stop a bear before it is chewing on someone...

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with the 77tmk/223 as a I need to kill this bear now, right in front of me, but I dont know what I would feel comfortable with. Killed some deer and elk with a 225 partition/35 whelen, that was just flat ugly on meat. Very large wound cavity that started early and huge exit even on elk. Bullet must have been on the soft side for that velocity, but still good penetration. Never shot anything thicker than an elk, but I think that bullet/cartrige combo would do serious damage in short order.?

Penetration & skeletal damage are the benefits that I desire.
.457 WWG 350 Swift A-frame @ 2300 mv
Before & after recovered from a moose.

 

[Davisjj8]

Reading a few of the posts in the 223 thread where PN was begging for someone to send him on a griz hunt, it got me wondering.

Lots of people said they would use a .223 for the hunt.

How many people would bring a .223 as the backup/guide gun on a griz hunt? Let’s say a 10 year old shoots a griz/brown bear from 700 yards because it’s in camp. It is clearly hit but makes its way into the brush. Is a .223 your cartridge of choice if you are the lead tracking it down?

If not what is your cartridge of choice?

Reading a few of the posts in the 223 thread where PN was begging for someone to send him on a griz hunt, it got me wondering.

Lots of people said they would use a .223 for the hunt.

How many people would bring a .223 as the backup/guide gun on a griz hunt? Let’s say a 10 year old shoots a griz/brown bear from 700 yards because it’s in camp. It is clearly hit but makes its way into the brush. Is a .223 your cartridge of choice if you are the lead tracking it down?

If not what is your cartridge of choice?

I’m going with either a 45/70 for pure knockdown power or a 308 ar10 with heavy bullets. Maybe snag a 300 win mag ar that bear creek released

 

[marshland_max]

When I finally get the chance to hunt Griz my 375 H&H gets the nod.

I agree with the short video. Short barrel 12 ga makes a great all arounder.

 

[black dawg]

Penetration & skeletal damage are the benefits that I desire.
.457 WWG 350 Swift A-frame @ 2300 mv
Before & after recovered from a moose.View attachment 514326

And this is exactly the way I used to feel. I am no expert with grizzly bear, but have killed many black bears, and with a combo very similar to that. 350grn hornady at 2200 out of a 45/70. The few bullets that I did find looked similar to that, but didnt kill as fast as a 130 interlock/partition from a 270. This is talking about shots not hitting nervous system. And yes, that 4570 load will cause penetration and skeletal damage.....


What shot placement are guys trying for to stop a bear?

 

[DawnPatrol]

What shot placement are guys trying for to stop a bear?

Center of mass.

A bear that’s charging often has its body low to the ground with its head low as well. I would aim at the middle of the middle of what I could see, and if the slug clips the skull or spine on the way to the vitals, so much the better.

I’ve been bluff charged, but never killed a charging grizzly, so WTF do I know.

 

[Fatcamp]

Pretty sure this is the Alaska State Parks target.

It's a bit terrifying.

 

[rayporter]

i like my marlin 45-70 but the lever has a long throw making a second shot questionable.
also the chance of short shucking the lever would leave you in a bind.

a big bore pump?

 

[FLATHEAD]

The one Brown Bear hunt I've done, the guide carried a .338 Ultra Mag.
Me, a .300 Win.

 

[Choupique]

I think I'm going with an open sight or red dot model 70 safari in 375 h&h, and hope I hit him in the face the first shot