Help With CO 1st Rifle Unit Selection

[grahambiel]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum but have been reading for a while and this has been an awesome resource. As a little background, I've primarily hunted whitetails back east (around NC where I live) but am starting to plan my first DIY elk hunt with some of my buddies.

We've decided to hunt Colorado during the first rifle season and have pretty much narrowed down our choices to either applying for a tag in the Unit 3,4,441, etc. area or 11,12,24, etc. area. We've narrowed down to this based on draw and harvest stats as well as the amount of public land in the areas (we've actually narrowed it down to a few specific units in each of these areas). I have one preference point but the rest of the group has zero so we're focusing on the units with easy to draw tags.

We plan on spike camping and since its early season will likely be trying to hunt high up and we don't mind walking a long distance. None of us are concerned about elk size and are going to be plenty happy with any legal bull (and a couple of guys may apply for cow tags). One of the main things we're hoping to do is get away from the crowds as best as possible (which I realize is going to be difficult in easy to draw units in Colorado). The flat tops wilderness seems to have much more area away from roads than the Routt NF in 4, 5, etc. but the latter seems to have better success rates and lower hunter numbers during first rifle.

Once we actually get our tags, we plan on doing a lot of homework on the area developing a gameplan but I was hoping others who are familiar with these areas could provide some general advice, recommendations, things to know, etc., especially as we start thinking about which order we want to apply for tags. I'm certainly not looking for anyone's honey holes (to me, finding the spots is half the fun) but if anyone could help point us in the right direction with some general advice, we would greatly appreciate it. Also, if there are some other first rifle tags that we should think about that we might have overlooked that might give us the chance to get away from the pressure, please feel free to share any advice via PM - we're not married to any plans yet.

Thanks in advance

 

[davsco]

not really answering your ??? but one thing i noticed on my first colo hunt this october, is that a lot of roads, even numbered ones that you'd think had full access, were private in parts with gates across them. so they go to public land but are gated along the way so you cannot get to that public land, at least via that road. it was very frustrating.

 

[grahambiel]

Actually, that kind of stuff is really helpful. Did you use the Colorado hunt atlas or OnX when looking at road access? Those are the main resources I’m planning on using to scout before we get there.

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

This year during first rifle there was 6" of snow at 9000' and the night time lows were in the single digits.

Make a plan, but have a backup plan too.

 

[davsco]

This year during first rifle there was 6" of snow at 9000' and the night time lows were in the single digits.

Make a plan, but have a backup plan too.

yeah that monday was the coldest day in recorded history on oct 15, ouch!

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Actually, that kind of stuff is really helpful. Did you use the Colorado hunt atlas or OnX when looking at road access? Those are the main resources I’m planning on using to scout before we get there.

actually, i need to figure that out for 2019, and not sure how to do it (find locked gates on public roads). i did use the colo hunt atlas, and gaia, but didn't see anything that showed gates or blocked access. if anyone knows how to find this, please share. it really sucked going in deep on some roads only to have to turn around.

 

[BCSojourner]

Download Hillmap (it's free like Google Earth) - it will give you side by side State-level (left) and aerial photo views. Use the State level to get close to your desired location, zoom in and choose 'Overlays' from the menu at top left. Choose 'Add Overlays' and choose 'Caltopo USFS Maps'. It will add the roads and closure (gates) layer. You can zoom right in on the topo and get an excellent idea for location, even comparing to the aerial on the right-hand side.

 

[530Chukar]

1st rifle is antlered elk only in the flat tops zones. I’m not framiliar with the other zones your referencing. They’re also basically over the counter so you can pick them up later in the year off the leftover list. That way you can earn a point putting in somewhere else and not burn the one that you have on a tag that has leftovers. Just be prepared for any weather. Last year was dry our whole time in there. This year there was a foot of snow at 9,000 ft and we couldn’t get up to the top where we camped the year before, snowed almost every day. Most people hunt only the first mile in. Most packers are 5 plus miles in. Find somewhere between that range for the least pressure.


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[5MilesBack]

1st rifle is antlered elk only in the flat tops zones.

1st rifle has both bull and cow tags.

 

[530Chukar]

1st rifle has both bull and cow tags.

Looks like you’re right. I guess I’ve just never met a cow hunter in there first season.


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[5MilesBack]

Looks like you’re right. I guess I’ve just never met a cow hunter in there first season.

They changed things up a bit a few years ago in there. There ALWAYS were leftover cow tags after the draws, like 1300+ of them. And they had either sex tags, not bull specific tags. I never saw any of those as leftovers. Then about 2013 or so they flipped that around and issued much fewer cow tags and a lot more "bull only" tags. Now they have a ridiculous amount of bull tags leftover every year. I can't imagine all the extra bull hunters doing anything good for that area. I have archery and rifle hunted that area for years and always saw more bulls than cows in there, but haven't been in there since they made that change (because of the changes). I can't imagine it helping anything for hunting bulls.

 

[grahambiel]

The population estimates for that DAU would seem to support what you’re saying. It looks like the bull to cow ratio in that area has declined a few percentage points a year over the past several

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Any thoughts on the area around units 3, 4, 441, and 5? The harvest stats look good in those areas but it looks harder to get away from roads in the public in those units and I’m wondering if the stats get skewed by the private. Does the public get hammered pretty hard in those areas? Worth burning a point for? Feel free to PM if you won’t wanna discuss publicly. Unfortunately I don’t have much info to trade (unless anyone is planning to come duck hunt eastern N.C.), but would really appreciate any general info

 

[cnelk]

You do realize the DAU plans are over 10 years old?

 

[grahambiel]

You do realize the DAU plans are over 10 years old?

I’m referring to the population estimates which appear to be released annually. Is that data not updated yearly?

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/Elk/2017ElkPopulationEstimates.pdf

 

[sndmn11]

The population estimates for that DAU would seem to support what you’re saying. It looks like the bull to cow ratio in that area has declined a few percentage points a year over the past several

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Any thoughts on the area around units 3, 4, 441, and 5? The harvest stats look good in those areas but it looks harder to get away from roads in the public in those units and I’m wondering if the stats get skewed by the private. Does the public get hammered pretty hard in those areas? Worth burning a point for?

If it is your first year, there would be nothing lost in applying for a point for your first choice and the other hunt code (EM01101R) as your second choice. You would gain some experience, you would not be questioning using a point...

There are oodles of elk in each area and people kill plenty of elk in both every year.

 

[elkduds]

Actually, that kind of stuff is really helpful. Did you use the Colorado hunt atlas or OnX when looking at road access? Those are the main resources I’m planning on using to scout before we get there.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife Atlas

Bottom of the left side menu, click Motor vehicle use map to see every road and trail open to trucks, atvs, motorcycles on Forest Service land.

 

[cnelk]

I’m referring to the population estimates which appear to be released annually. Is that data not updated yearly?

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/Elk/2017ElkPopulationEstimates.pdf

Im not sure if I would call it 'DATA'

I would call it a SWAG - Scientific Wild Ass Guess

 

[BCSojourner]

The 'SWAG' referred to by cnelk is likely right on. No way that they have a really good handle on the numbers and the DAU data/studies in some units are approaching 15 years in age. They are radio-collaring and collecting data in some areas but I believe a lot of the hunt unit population data is based on harvest statistics, some winter aerial surveys, and computer models. Where we used to see herds migrating up to high-country summer range of 75-100 cows/calves we now see much smaller scattered groups. Factor in that a lot more animals are holding on large expanses of private ranch land, likely due to pressure from increased number of summer recreating users on the public lands. The take-away is that the current unit numbers reflect the numbers on private land as well and a lot of these animals are not going to be accessible to the average public land hunter.

 

[davsco]

Bottom of the left side menu, click Motor vehicle use map to see every road and trail open to trucks, atvs, motorcycles on Forest Service land.

does this indicate (or not show) sections of these roads that are gated with 'no trespassing' signs? i'm looking at one road and it seems to show it despite me finding a gate there with a 'no trespassing' sign and having to turn around. the road shows well past that gate.

 

[cnelk]

Davsco

IMO - You'll be much better off putting some distance between you and private land.

Sure there may be elk there, but having the worries of fences, gates and possible trespass charges are not in my hunt plans.

 

[davsco]

Davsco

IMO - You'll be much better off putting some distance between you and private land.

Sure there may be elk there, but having the worries of fences, gates and possible trespass charges are not in my hunt plans.

thanks and i hear you. i have gaia on my phone and definitely stayed on my side of public land throughout my hunt. again my prob is some roads go thru private land (ie easement) and then some do that but have gates and no trespassing signs so i cannot get to the public land on the other side, just trying to figure out how to tell before i invest a bunch of time on that road.