Is this copper fouling causing poor accuracy? With pic.

[Hunter Sargent]

Is this copper fouling causing poor accuracy? UPDATED

I’ve been struggling for 2 weeks to work up a load with acceptable accuracy for this rifle and it’s driving me nuts! Working up from min to max loads in .5 gr increments is producing head-scratching results with accubonds and partitions. While cleaning I noticed these copper streaks in the bore. I have now cleaned this rifle 15 times in 2 days and the streaks are about half the amount they were...but are now no longer getting any better. Could this be causing my accuracy problem?

 

[ofl0926]

Sounds like the accuracy is lost cause of the fouling. I shoot a lot weatherby rounds that build up a lot of copper. What are you using to clean your rifle? I have come to learn the hard way with cleaning products. Not all are created equal. I know use boretech products to remove copper fouling. Extremely effective. Liquid is clear and turns blue to show fouling. My process

Run three soaked patches with boretech
You can scrub but not necessary
Wait 10-15m
Run another soaked patch
If it comes blue, go back to first step

Boretech offers multiple products
Eliminator is a great copper/carbon remover. Then they have a separate copper and carbon remover.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dusty2426]

I’ve been struggling for 2 weeks to work up a load with acceptable accuracy for this rifle and it’s driving me nuts! Working up from min to max loads in .5 gr increments is producing head-scratching results with accubonds and partitions. While cleaning I noticed these copper streaks in the bore. I have now cleaned this rifle 15 times in 2 days and the streaks are about half the amount they were...but are now no longer getting any better. Could this be causing my accuracy problem?

View attachment 80086

For high fouling I roll up a foam ear plug insert into muzzle end. Fill barrel with hoppes #9 and let soak muzzle down for 24 hours in a catch pan. earplug will not damage crown and Hoppes is not harsh and will not score bore like some harsher cleaners. Bronze brush it the next day and it will clean up real nice

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ve been struggling for 2 weeks to work up a load with acceptable accuracy for this rifle and it’s driving me nuts! Working up from min to max loads in .5 gr increments is producing head-scratching results with accubonds and partitions. While cleaning I noticed these copper streaks in the bore. I have now cleaned this rifle 15 times in 2 days and the streaks are about half the amount they were...but are now no longer getting any better. Could this be causing my accuracy problem?

View attachment 80086

What is the rifle, scope, and mounts?

 

[Hunter Sargent]

What is the rifle, scope, and mounts?

To answer the cleaning questions: I have tried using Wipe-Out, Break Free Bore Foam, and Hoppes Elite Bore Foam. Wipe Out seems to be working the best using the method ofl0926 described. But, all of the bore cleaners I have tried result in never-ending blue patches. Another note, I've never had a rifle that was this hard to push a dry patch down...to the point I was wondering if my cleaning rod was going to bend or break. Maybe a too-tight bore?

The rifle is a Winchester XPR in 300 WSM. Scope is a Leupold VX3i 3-10X40. The rings are Talley Lightweights. I just removed the stock and re-torqued the action screws. Everything looked fine there. Tonight I will dismount and remount the scope to make sure there aren't any mounting issues.

Thanks everyone for the replies, keep them coming!

 

[amassi]

How many rounds have you shot total?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Hunter Sargent]

How many rounds have you shot total?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

175 or so. I will be halfway through the barrel life before this is done, lol.

 

[jhm2023]

Use Barnes CR-10 and follow the instructions on the bottle. It will get all of that fouling out. I clean my rifles about every 30-40 shots then send 2 fouler rounds through the barrel. Be sure to use a guide that will protect the action so the copper remover doesn't get into the bedding. That amount of fouling shouldn't be casuing accuracy issues though. All of my rifles will shoot sub MOA or sub half MOA with more fouling than that. Perhaps your rifle just doesn't like the powder and/or bullets you are trying. There could also be another underlying cause somewhere in the rifle that needs attention like scope mounts, bedding, toque on action screws, etc. Try the CR-10 and check your toque specs on all screws and see where that gets you.

 

[Cahunter805]

Use a dedicated copper cleaner. I like boretech products. Also it looks like your cleaning jag is brass. Get a coated jag.

 

[ofl0926]

To answer the cleaning questions: I have tried using Wipe-Out, Break Free Bore Foam, and Hoppes Elite Bore Foam. Wipe Out seems to be working the best using the method ofl0926 described. But, all of the bore cleaners I have tried result in never-ending blue patches. Another note, I've never had a rifle that was this hard to push a dry patch down...to the point I was wondering if my cleaning rod was going to bend or break. Maybe a too-tight bore?

The rifle is a Winchester XPR in 300 WSM. Scope is a Leupold VX3i 3-10X40. The rings are Talley Lightweights. I just removed the stock and re-torqued the action screws. Everything looked fine there. Tonight I will dismount and remount the scope to make sure there aren't any mounting issues.

Thanks everyone for the replies, keep them coming!

Hey brother. I had the same issue with constant blue patches. Make sure your using Tipton jags and your cleaning rod doesn’t have any brass on the connector. Trust me, the first cleaning with boretech is a long one but it gets easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hunter Sargent]

I think my jags are brass, but it doesn't change the fact that I can still see streaks in the barrel. I did remove the scope and mounts last night. Everything looked fine but I went ahead and lapped the rings and re-torqued everything to spec. I bought some Federal blue box to try out...hopefully I get a chance to shoot today.

 

[ofl0926]

I think my jags are brass, but it doesn't change the fact that I can still see streaks in the barrel. I did remove the scope and mounts last night. Everything looked fine but I went ahead and lapped the rings and re-torqued everything to spec. I bought some Federal blue box to try out...hopefully I get a chance to shoot today.

I think those jags will give you a false reading as well. Again try different cleaning products. I would like to see what happens if you try my regiment of cleaning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

175 or so. I will be halfway through the barrel life before this is done, lol.

Holy psycho cleaning...



Stop cleaning the gun. That is not your problem, if it is- get a new gun.


What rest are you using?

Check barrel channel clearance. It needs to be quite large with that stock.

Switch optics.

Do you shoot other magnum rifles consistently well?







All,



I guess the reason “cleaning” like “breaking in” is still a thing is because people don’t actually shoot that much, nor test beliefs to see if they are true. I see 500,000+ centerfire rounds shot a year from 223 all the way to 338L/NM and 50cals. Very rarely does fouling or copper cause inaccuracy (loss of precision). And I mean VERY rarely.


Below is because someone will call BS. Since most do do not understand 10 round groups, I will keep this mostly 3 and 5 round “groups”. None of these are cherry picked- they are the last groups shot on paper with each gun....


300 RUM Improved. 500+\- rounds without cleaning.

[/URL][/IMG]






Tikka Master Sporter 308. Over 6,000 rounds without cleaning...

[/URL][/IMG]








Tikka T3x 6.5 Creedmoor. 280 +/- rounds without cleaning.

[/URL][/IMG]




10 round group-

[/URL][/IMG]






Howa Alpine. 6.5 Creedmoor. 190’ish rounds without cleaning.

[/URL][/IMG]






Tikka T3 SL 223rem. Well over 6,000 rounds without cleaning.

[/URL][/IMG]


M

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Formidilosus]

Rifles do not need to be clean to shoot well. Not only that, by not cleaning you get a much more static zero day in and day out, more consistent velocity round to round, most rifles seem to have less point of impact shift with ammo lot to lot, AND I don’t waste time doing something that isn’t necessary or helpful.

 

[juan trueno]

Hahahahaha- I drag a boresnake through my stuff every once in a while- or after an extended rainy hunt because it makes my brain feel like it’s helping- a rare thing, and I definitely do it for my brain not the rifles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MuleyFever]

When you say do not need to be cleaned do you mean at all? I generally only clean my gun once after season is over and it will sit for a while over winter.

 

[Hunter Sargent]

Yeah, I normally don't worry too much about cleaning. This debacle started with accuracy issues, which led to inspection, which led to the discovery of copper streaks in the bore, which led to the cleaning.

I usually use a led sled off of a bench. I'm going out this evening with some factory loads and a Spartan tripod to shoot laying prone to eliminate the led sled and my reloads as potential issues.

The barrel is free floated, but I'm not sure what the clearance is. The stock is quite stiff, so I'm not too worried about that being the issue. I will report back when done shooting tonight.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[juan trueno]

Speaking for myself- rust and dust. I wipe the bolt and the outside down after I go to the range or come home from a trip. Then I lean it against the wall with the bolt hanging open and the muzzle unobstructed. And that’s about it but sometimes I don’t do all that. You do what makes you feel good- and doing nothing rubs me the wrong way so I put a little oil on it. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a barrel go more than a couple hundred rounds without pulling a snake with brake free or something through it but I’ve had them go thousands without seeing any fall off in accuracy- And I know for an absolute fact that a bore snake and break free will absolutely not help your accuracy. At all.

Also- I had this happen once- I had a Weatherby vanguard with the sub moa stainless, bell and Carlson stock. Loved that rifle. It shot great with most 165ish stuff wasn’t as good with 180s. Any way- put it into a micky hunters edge- and it went to hell- groups opened up, got more “3rd round fliers” etc. remounted optic loaded more ammo, shot more, replaced optic loaded and shot more. Put it back in the B and C stock. Groups still big- fliers still. anyway- it took a lot of 223 to get those groups right again. This is from
Someone who has shot his whole life. A lot. Almost everyday for almost 20 years blah blah blah- I don’t want to pontificate - but I feel like it’s important to understand that I was a well seasoned marksman when that all went down and it can happen to anyone- the less muscle memory and discipline you have the more susceptible you are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

When you say do not need to be cleaned do you mean at all? I generally only clean my gun once after season is over and it will sit for a while over winter.

I haven’t cleaned a stainless or melonite barrel in nearly a decade. Barrel life is as expected and the same or better. Blued barrels I’ll use a patch to dry out if they get soaked.

 

[UtahJimmy]

Rifles do not need to be clean to shoot well. Not only that, by not cleaning you get a much more static zero day in and day out, more consistent velocity round to round, most rifles seem to have less point of impact shift with ammo lot to lot, AND I don’t waste time doing something that isn’t necessary or helpful.

Would you also recommend not cleaning when switching between powder/bullet combos when during load development?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk