Latest on Wy Region G Deer success rates

[amassi]

What percentage of available licenses go to non residents in high demand limited quota units in other states?

Irrelevant
Reduction in non resident nor resident licenses will bring your deer herds back.


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[6.5Express]

Never claimed it would bring the herds back. The point being made is that when the numbers of available bucks are down, perhaps some additional licenses could be cut. No, it wont bring the herds back, but how does allowing the same number of hunters on the landscape with a reduced herd make sense?

 

[amassi]

Never claimed it would bring the herds back. The point being made is that when the numbers of available bucks are down, perhaps some additional licenses could be cut. No, it wont bring the herds back, but how does allowing the same number of hunters on the landscape with a reduced herd make sense?

If you read the linked article or any of the others
Shooting mature bucks does not affect fawn and doe recruitment. Fewer bucks on winter range might actually preserve some. You need alive does to rear fawns and Alice fawns to turn into bucks.
Tag allocation is a straw man or red herring, take your pick. Always comes up in these discussions despite having no bearing


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[6.5Express]

If you read the linked article or any of the others
Shooting mature bucks does not affect fawn and doe recruitment. Fewer bucks on winter range might actually preserve some. You need alive does to rear fawns and Alice fawns to turn into bucks.
Tag allocation is a straw man or red herring, take your pick. Always comes up in these discussions despite having no bearing


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Im not disagreeing with you.

But, the bulk of the concern comes from hunters that are looking for bucks and not seeing as many as they used to. Fewer deer equal fewer bucks equals less opportunity for hunters.

We all want more deer on the landscape in general because we want more bucks to hunt. So, why crowd what's left? And, why lead to conflict between hunters in the field with less bucks to pursue?

 

[amassi]

Im not disagreeing with you.

But, the bulk of the concern comes from hunters that are looking for bucks and not seeing as many as they used to. Fewer deer equal fewer bucks equals less opportunity for hunters.

We all want more deer on the landscape in general because we want more bucks to hunt. So, why crowd what's left? And, why lead to conflict between hunters in the field with less bucks to pursue?

If hunters are concerned then they can chose to not hunt.
Want to see more deer on the landscape get involved in the process not a proponent for closures.
Volunteer your time in habitat restoration
Protect winter range
Build more overpasses to keep deer off highways and railroads during winter
Kill more predators
Look for other factors that have effects - are horn gatherers needlessly pressuring animals to pick up sheds ?
Pressure game management agencies to manage game more effectively, Wyoming seemingly does this quicker than any other western state.


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[6.5Express]

If hunters are concerned then they can chose to not hunt.
Want to see more deer on the landscape get involved in the process not a proponent for closures.
Volunteer your time in habitat restoration
Protect winter range
Build more overpasses to keep deer off highways and railroads during winter
Kill more predators
Look for other factors that have effects - are horn gatherers needlessly pressuring animals to pick up sheds ?
Pressure game management agencies to manage game more effectively, Wyoming seemingly does this quicker than any other western state.


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I do and have done all of the things you've listed.

Ive donated my time and money, kill predators every opportunity that arises, choose to pay a higher price for license lates to help fund road projects, etc. You know nothing about me or what I've done or haven't done.

Residents can choose to hunt other general areas or not hunt at all. Thats the beauty of the general license. For the first time in 10 years, i applied for a limited quota mule deer license this year rather than just buy a general license because of the winter kill on these deer.

 

[wind gypsy]

What percentage of available licenses go to non residents in high demand limited quota units in other states?

I was just thinking Buzz would be making that argument if he were still here. It's a silly argument. CO gives a higher % of limited entry tags to NR and they have 10x as many residents to give preference to as WY. What other states have OTC deer tags for residents that take NR 10 years to draw? What about 5 years to draw? Might be some but I cant think of any.

I swear if there were 20 total Resident hunters in all of WY and they were all shooting at least one moose, sheep, goats, elk, deer, and pronghorn every year, there'd still be some that were unhappy if non-residents were taking 16% of the tags. "them god damned NR shot a sheep, it shoulda been my 3rd this year, i live here for cripes sakes!"

 

[amassi]

I do and have done all of the things you've listed.

Ive donated my time and money, kill predators every opportunity that arises, choose to pay a higher price for license lates to help fund road projects, etc. You know nothing about me or what I've done or haven't done.

Residents can choose to hunt other general areas or not hunt at all. Thats the beauty of the general license. For the first time in 10 years, i applied for a limited quota mule deer license this year rather than just buy a general license because of the winter kill on these deer.

Sensitive much?
Keep up the good work


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[6.5Express]

Sensitive much?
Keep up the good work


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Not at all. I read your post telling me that i should be doing those things. Did I mis read it? If I did, I apologize.

 

[6.5Express]

I was just thinking Buzz would be making that argument if he were still here. It's a silly argument. CO gives a higher % of limited entry tags to NR and they have 10x as many residents to give preference to as WY. What other states have OTC deer tags for residents that take NR 10 years to draw? What about 5 years to draw? Might be some but I cant think of any.

I swear if there were 20 total Resident hunters in all of WY and they were all shooting at least one moose, sheep, goats, elk, deer, and pronghorn every year, there'd still be some that were unhappy if non-residents were taking 16% of the tags. "them god damned NR shot a sheep, it shoulda been my 3rd this year, i live here for cripes sakes!"

Ok. So, what do you think needs done? And, how much time have you spent hunting the deer in Region G?

 

[amassi]

Not at all. I read your post telling me that i should be doing those things. Did I mis read it? If I did, I apologize.

Yes
I was pointing out things that might actually move the needle
Sounds like you are, kudos on that.


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[wind gypsy]

Ok. So, what do you think needs done? And, how much time have you spent hunting the deer in Region G?

My input on what needs to be done for the herd is not valuable, i'm sure you know much better than I what really impacts the herd there! I'm not insinuating that you and others aren't making positive contributions. I think WY residents and their wildlife agency are the standard other states should aspire to!

All I know is when someone who can hunt OTC every year looks at someone who waits 10 years for the same opportunity and thinks, "hey we should make these SOBs wait for the better part of another decade even if that only reduces overall pressure by single digit % but do nothing meaningful to the bulk of hunters like me", that is some selfish shit.

 

[6.5Express]

My input on what needs to be done for the herd is not valuable, i'm sure you know much better than I what really impacts the herd there! I'm not insinuating that you and others aren't making positive contributions. I think WY residents and their wildlife agency are the standard other states should aspire to!

All I know is when someone who can hunt OTC every year looks at someone who waits 10 years for the same opportunity and thinks, "hey we should make these SOBs wait for the better part of another decade even if that only reduces overall pressure by single digit % but do nothing meaningful to the bulk of hunters like me", that is some selfish shit.

I think you have misinterpreted my point. And, in one post you say that Wy residents should have the best opportunity, but in another post say that is selfish.

I have applied in and waited for a limited quota mule deer license in Utah for 19 years. I m not on the internet asking for utah residents opportunity to be decreased so i can maintain or improve mine.

What state do you live and hunt in?

 

[6.5Express]

Yes
I was pointing out things that might actually move the needle
Sounds like you are, kudos on that.


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So, have you done any of these things to help out wildlife in general or the Wyoming Range Deer herd specifically?

 

[Touchdown88]

If we have another bad winter, the G&F will be forces to start shutting down hunts. Utah did this in the Book Cliffs in the early 90s

 

[amassi]

So, have you done any of these things to help out wildlife in general or the Wyoming Range Deer herd specifically?

Is that you Buzz?

Yes and yes- irrelevant to the discussion as it clearly isn’t helping your deer herds since I don’t control the weather or wintering conditions but here we go…

I send Wyoming a ton of money every year- directly in the form of applications, super tag raffles, use stamps despite this being a tax on idiots under the new guidelines sending in money for tags I’ll never draw. NOTE- I don’t fault Wyoming for 90/10, your state your rules.

Also- indirectly through federal welfare(income tax dollars and Pittman Robinson). I’m there about every year hunting or fishing and am not shy about boosting your economy either.

On a tertiary level I own stock in a few of your energy companies, not sure if that helps or not their impact on deer is probably at best net neutral but I expect negative.

I’ve donated time, energy and money to improve deer habitat.

Lastly I try and stay involved in legislative issues and help any way I can.

 

[wind gypsy]

And, in one post you say that Wy residents should have the best opportunity, but in another post say that is selfish.

That's a poor interpretation. WY should absolutely have preference, i'd would argue for that. I've never felt like NR deserved a bigger slice of that pie or advocated for it. I've always kind of just thought "good for those guys" with your Region G and H OTC tags and NR having to wait a long time. If you're not advocating for drastically cutting NR tags where they are already less than 10% of hunters in a Resident gen tag hunt I'm not even calling you selfish. But it was suggested in this thread they cut the region G NR tag #'s by 83% for what (based on my interpretation of 2022 #s) would only reduce total hunters in G by 7% and totally eff all those people who've already got 10 years invested while the hunters who already had it better than everyone else give up nothing. Yeah, that is selfish! If it takes 10 years now, how many does it take with 83% fewer tags?

I have applied in and waited for a limited quota mule deer license in Utah for 19 years. I m not on the internet asking for utah residents opportunity to be decreased so i can maintain or improve mine.

Thanks for the good example with UT. What happens when they reduce mule deer tags in a permit area in UT? They reduce R and NR tag allotment by the same %. Not, "oh times are tough, you get an 83% haircut after waiting for a decade. Me? ha, I go every year and give up nothing". What's it take a UT resident to draw something a NR draws with 19 points, 12-14 points? Not in the same ballpark as proposed cut of NR G tags while R stays OTC.

What state do you live and hunt in?

I live in MN, hunt in a bunch of states.

 

[realunlucky]

I think you have misinterpreted my point. And, in one post you say that Wy residents should have the best opportunity, but in another post say that is selfish.

I have applied in and waited for a limited quota mule deer license in Utah for 19 years. I m not on the internet asking for utah residents opportunity to be decreased so i can maintain or improve mine.

What state do you live and hunt in?

The comparison to utah is not valid. Limited entry is limited to draw for both residents and non-residents alike.

Region G is open to any and all residents. Point being if you want to make an impact on this regions deer herd you'll need to restrict the majority of participants not the minority.

This point is exemplified as they already reduced non-resident tags just this season and the impact was unnoticed.

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[6.5Express]

Is that you Buzz?

Yes and yes- irrelevant to the discussion as it clearly isn’t helping your deer herds since I don’t control the weather or wintering conditions but here we go…

I send Wyoming a ton of money every year- directly in the form of applications, super tag raffles, use stamps despite this being a tax on idiots under the new guidelines sending in money for tags I’ll never draw. NOTE- I don’t fault Wyoming for 90/10, your state your rules.

Also- indirectly through federal welfare(income tax dollars and Pittman Robinson). I’m there about every year hunting or fishing and am not shy about boosting your economy either.

On a tertiary level I own stock in a few of your energy companies, not sure if that helps or not their impact on deer is probably at best net neutral but I expect negative.

I’ve donated time, energy and money to improve deer habitat.

Lastly I try and stay involved in legislative issues and help any way I can.

Is that you Buzz?

Yes and yes- irrelevant to the discussion as it clearly isn’t helping your deer herds since I don’t control the weather or wintering conditions but here we go…

I send Wyoming a ton of money every year- directly in the form of applications, super tag raffles, use stamps despite this being a tax on idiots under the new guidelines sending in money for tags I’ll never draw. NOTE- I don’t fault Wyoming for 90/10, your state your rules.

Also- indirectly through federal welfare(income tax dollars and Pittman Robinson). I’m there about every year hunting or fishing and am not shy about boosting your economy either.

On a tertiary level I own stock in a few of your energy companies, not sure if that helps or not their impact on deer is probably at best net neutral but I expect negative.

I’ve donated time, energy and money to improve deer habitat.

Lastly I try and stay involved in legislative issues and help any way I can.

So, you pay for a chance to hunt, invest in energy stocks, and purchase firearms and ammunition in your home state but dont actively participate in any of the other things that you suggested others do?

Sorry, but my name isnt Buzz.

 

[6.5Express]

That's a poor interpretation. WY should absolutely have preference, i'd would argue for that. I've never felt like NR deserved a bigger slice of that pie or advocated for it. I've always kind of just thought "good for those guys" with your Region G and H OTC tags and NR having to wait a long time. If you're not advocating for drastically cutting NR tags where they are already less than 10% of hunters in a Resident gen tag hunt I'm not even calling you selfish. But it was suggested in this thread they cut the region G NR tag #'s by 83% for what (based on my interpretation of 2022 #s) would only reduce total hunters in G by 7% and totally eff all those people who've already got 10 years invested while the hunters who already had it better than everyone else give up nothing. Yeah, that is selfish! If it takes 10 years now, how many does it take with 83% fewer tags?



Thanks for the good example with UT. What happens when they reduce mule deer tags in a permit area in UT? They reduce R and NR tag allotment by the same %. Not, "oh times are tough, you get an 83% haircut after waiting for a decade. Me? ha, I go every year and give up nothing". What's it take a UT resident to draw something a NR draws with 19 points, 12-14 points? Not in the same ballpark as proposed cut of NR G tags while R stays OTC.


I live in MN, hunt in a bunch of states.

Maybe i missed the recommendation in this thread to cut NR licenses by 83%. I responded to a recommendation to make resident licenses LQ by stating i didnt think it was necessary in WY due to our low population statewide.

We dont have region anything OTC tags. Multiple areas throughout the state can be hunted on an OTC general license including what is G and H for non residents. My first post in this thread suggested moving the dates back to save some age class on the bucks that are left. This would also make more residents think about where they go on a general deer license as the bulk of tge general units are open during October. Also, it is my belief that the Wyoming Range deer are just too vulnerable mid September when there numbers are as few as they are currently.

My point with Utah is that im not whining on the internetthat residents opportunity should be reduced so mine can be maintained or improved. You keep saying 10 years is too long to wait for a chance to hunt deer in Wyoming, and I stated as a non resident of Utah, ive been waiting 19 and counting years. It is what it is.