Montana 2022 Elk Regs

[Hookhunter75]

Looking at the new Elk regs for 2022. How do you think this will change the NR diy pressure. I hunt about every 2-3 years in MT.

With the new system and guys being allowed to apply for 2 pref points if going with an outfitter will this choke out the NR diy guys? My buddy and I are party applying for the general and will have an average of 2.5 points per guy.

I’m not a huge fan of how the new regs were handled but I am wondering if it will help limit pressure on public land from DIY guys and provide better opportunities.

 

[Indian Summer]

Those outfitted hunters will draw their licenses book their hunts and be gone.

 

[Bucks_N_Bulls]

As a NR who typically hunts MT every other year this is a huge bummer and will certainly change the way I approach MT. I didn't love the fact that you were disadvantaged with having 1 PP vs. 0 PP, but at least there was some certainty on when you were going to draw a tag.

 

[Deadfall]

Looking at the new Elk regs for 2022. How do you think this will change the NR diy pressure. I hunt about every 2-3 years in MT.

With the new system and guys being allowed to apply for 2 pref points if going with an outfitter will this choke out the NR diy guys? My buddy and I are party applying for the general and will have an average of 2.5 points per guy.

I’m not a huge fan of how the new regs were handled but I am wondering if it will help limit pressure on public land from DIY guys and provide better opportunities.

It will help some.

 

[Deadfall]

More changes coming in next couple years.

 

[slim9300]

It’s going to spread out non-resident archery hunters and help the OTC units, that’s for sure.


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[dreamingbig]

Anyone know how they are going to keep the outfitter sponsored tags as hunting with outfitter only? Special tag given to them that notes the sponsorship?


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[Deadfall]

Anyone know how they are going to keep the outfitter sponsored tags as hunting with outfitter only? Special tag given to them that notes the sponsorship?


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They aren't. We had that once but citizen ballot did away with those. What we have now is just an extra point for those booking with an outfitter.

The outfitter tags of old were highly regulated. A lot of fancy folks got everyone stirred up with partial information and they went away.

There were other benefits as well and they went away. Now it's a free for all. And a free for all on a cheaper tag than it was 15 years ago.

Personally I would like to see the guaranteed tag come back. In some form. Not the 60 percent nonsense moga tried.

Those old outfitter tags had alot of rules attached to them.

Everyone thought the outfitters were screwing everyone else. Now we are seeing the consequences of wrong decisions.

 

[Deadfall]

Looking at the new Elk regs for 2022. How do you think this will change the NR diy pressure. I hunt about every 2-3 years in MT.

With the new system and guys being allowed to apply for 2 pref points if going with an outfitter will this choke out the NR diy guys? My buddy and I are party applying for the general and will have an average of 2.5 points per guy.

I’m not a huge fan of how the new regs were handled but I am wondering if it will help limit pressure on public land from DIY guys and provide better opportunities.

The biggest thing affecting non resident draw odds are the number of applicants. Before the the preference point thing came out, 35-40 percent of non residents were still going with outfitters.
Getting rid of guaranteed outfitter tags accomplished 4 things. Non of them good.

1. Substantially lowered the price of tags for those wanting to hunt with a outfitter.
2. Did away with all the regulation that was associated with those tags. I.e could only use the tag with a outfitter.
3. Made it tougher for outfitters to book because they have to wait and see who draws, adjust groups/booking.
4. Increased pressure in easily accessible areas

As for how the new regs were handled. I think they were handled as well as anyone could possibly hope for. Public comment was sought after by those in charge. The public was asked for ideas what they would like to see. Alot of the original ideas were changed or done away with based on the public comment. The comment period was even extended this year.

Now they are working on a actual game management plan. In a year or 2 when that is done, I'm sure more changes will be coming.

It will be critical that our voices as the public are heard, during this formulating of the game plan.

If they decide to cut the number of animals that will only make it harder to get tags.

If we want opportunity for DIY/NR and decent draw odds for the NR we are going to have to give the landowners and outfitters a bone as well. That means we must find some compromise between all sides. Seems like a freaking overwhelming task to me. I do not envy the commissions task as they set out to accomplish this new game plan..

otherwise this entire deal will get privatized and push the common folk like me completely out of the game.

 

[Hookhunter75]

The biggest thing affecting non resident draw odds are the number of applicants. Before the the preference point thing came out, 35-40 percent of non residents were still going with outfitters.
Getting rid of guaranteed outfitter tags accomplished 4 things. Non of them good.

1. Substantially lowered the price of tags for those wanting to hunt with a outfitter.
2. Did away with all the regulation that was associated with those tags. I.e could only use the tag with a outfitter.
3. Made it tougher for outfitters to book because they have to wait and see who draws, adjust groups/booking.
4. Increased pressure in easily accessible areas

As for how the new regs were handled. I think they were handled as well as anyone could possibly hope for. Public comment was sought after by those in charge. The public was asked for ideas what they would like to see. Alot of the original ideas were changed or done away with based on the public comment. The comment period was even extended this year.

Now they are working on a actual game management plan. In a year or 2 when that is done, I'm sure more changes will be coming.

It will be critical that our voices as the public are heard, during this formulating of the game plan.

If they decide to cut the number of animals that will only make it harder to get tags.

If we want opportunity for DIY/NR and decent draw odds for the NR we are going to have to give the landowners and outfitters a bone as well. That means we must find some compromise between all sides. Seems like a freaking overwhelming task to me. I do not envy the commissions task as they set out to accomplish this new game plan..

otherwise this entire deal will get privatized and push the common folk like me completely out of the game.

I agree you need to come up with a plan that provides benefit to all parties.

I am a NR hunter it is not my state. I enjoy the benefit of hunting it. What I don’t expect is for the tag to come easy or cheap. I think easily accessible cheap elk tags result in overrun public lands and a quality of hunt that most aren’t seeking.

Case in point look at Colorado. This is not meant to be offensive to Colorado they have some great opportunities there. But the OTC structure makes it tough.

I would rather Residents Non Residents and Outfitters all benefit from a wildlife plan in Montana. I am in favor of a structure that allows for dispersal of hunters throughout the state with better opportunity hunting for everyone.

 

[Deadfall]

One thing about the preference point deal is that now FWP will have the data about what percentage is going with outfitters, instead of moga supply that information. Once all that is counted for last year and this year. Then we will have a more accurate idea of what the number is going with outfitter.

Lots more data fathering to do in the next year or two. Hopefully paint a better picture of what the landscape actually looks like.

Then we can identify issues more accurately and hopefully address them better.

Will see what comes out the wash I recon

 

[dreamingbig]

They aren't. We had that once but citizen ballot did away with those. What we have now is just an extra point for those booking with an outfitter.

The outfitter tags of old were highly regulated. A lot of fancy folks got everyone stirred up with partial information and they went away.

There were other benefits as well and they went away. Now it's a free for all. And a free for all on a cheaper tag than it was 15 years ago.

Personally I would like to see the guaranteed tag come back. In some form. Not the 60 percent nonsense moga tried.

Those old outfitter tags had alot of rules attached to them.

Everyone thought the outfitters were screwing everyone else. Now we are seeing the consequences of wrong decisions.

How certain are you about that? Page 17 of the 2022 elk regs reads…

“Licenses issued using this point are only valid for hunting with an outfitter.”

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[Erict]

Hunters with a valid 2021 outfitter contract for elk/deer got tags that were printed with "ONE TIME OUTFITTED DEER COMBO", etc.

Hunters obtaining a 2022 combo license obtained using "outfitter preference points" will have tags printed with "OUTFITTER PREFERENCE POINT LICENSE". Go HERE if you need to read it for yourself.

MOGA issued a statement recently that stated "...to use the license obtained through an Outfitter preference point by NOT hunting with an outfitter will carry the equivalent fine as lying about your residency on a license."

 

[slim9300]

Hunters with a valid 2021 outfitter contract for elk/deer got tags that were printed with "ONE TIME OUTFITTED DEER COMBO", etc. It's reasonable to expect similar wording for 2022 - "OUTFITTED DEER COMBO", etc.

MOGA issued a statement recently that stated "...to use the license obtained through an Outfitter preference point by NOT hunting with an outfitter will carry the equivalent fine as lying about your residency on a license."

I wonder if this requirement is like New Mexico when it comes to drawing in the outfitter pool?


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[afishinman14]

Following along and learning. I am out of Texas but headed to Montana this fall. Might be to you guys' dismay... but it's will an outfitter. But it will also be Private Land, if that helps.

 

[Riplip]

I wonder if this requirement is like New Mexico when it comes to drawing in the outfitter pool?


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If you are talking about semi guided option, where the outfitter is required for only a portion then no. If you draw under the outfitter guidelines you can only hunt when accompanied by the outfitter. So if you book for a week hunt, you cannot come back and hunt on your own.

For me one of the great benefits to hunting with general tag in MT as NR is the ability to hunt from Sept through November. Although I assume most NR's that hire and hunt with an outfitter only plan to hunt for a limited time frame, so it should not be too big of a deal.

 

[slim9300]

If you are talking about semi guided option, where the outfitter is required for only a portion then no. If you draw under the outfitter guidelines you can only hunt when accompanied by the outfitter. So if you book for a week hunt, you cannot come back and hunt on your own.

What’s your support for this? Is this listed on the MT F&G page?


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[Riplip]

What’s your support for this? Is this listed on the MT F&G page?


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From the 2022 Regulations, Page 17: Outfitter clients are eligible to purchase second preference point for an additional $100 at the time of application. Licenses issued using this point are only valid for hunting with an outfitter.

Clarification of my original post - it you choose to purchase a point through outfitter pool, your tag is only valid and usable with an outfitter. If you don't elect to purchase the second PP through outfitters pool, your tag is obviously good for whatever season you have (outfitted or not).

 

[slim9300]

From the 2022 Regulations, Page 17: Outfitter clients are eligible to purchase second preference point for an additional $100 at the time of application. Licenses issued using this point are only valid for hunting with an outfitter.

Clarification of my original post - it you choose to purchase a point through outfitter pool, your tag is only valid and usable with an outfitter. If you don't elect to purchase the second PP through outfitters pool, your tag is obviously good for whatever season you have (outfitted or not).

I saw that. But can the outfitter ‘release you’ after your obligation to them is filled? Say you have a big game combo and you are only hunting elk during archery season, but want to come back in November for deer somewhere else. I think there are still some questions to be answered on this topic since these tags are not coming from a special outfitter pool and the intent was to support the outfitters. I have a feeling there is going to be more to come before the season starts.

It also begs the question, how often do you have to be in the presence of your outfitter or his guide? There are lots of outfitters that have self-guided individuals. Are they eligible for the outfitter preference point?


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[dreamingbig]

I hope they stick with “it is only valid while hunting with the outfitter” or else a lot of drop camps are going to be booked! Or 1 or 2 day commitments.


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