My gear/pack layout from base layers to binos

[Formidilosus]

I have gotten 20-30 requests for a full gear post of what I use over the last year or two. I have not done so as certain gear brings out emotions more than which cartridge and bullets threads, and there is an element of personal preference. I also don’t solely or even generally base most of my choices on what I like, but rather from observing and noting what works the best/optimum for as many people as possible for the given conditions.
When it is personal preference that is driving my choices, I will state so. Otherwise, agree or not- there is an element of objectivity about the item.


Use case:

In general, the majority of what I do is October to February, western mountain hunting. Weather will range from 80°F to well below 0°F (lowest has been -27°F IIRC). Usually, but not always with significant portions in 6” to 18” of snow, at times more than 2 feet of snow.
That compromises probably 70-80% of my choices. However, the remainder is broken up between Aug-Sep antelope and sometimes sheep, and April-June bear hunting. The in between months are still spent in the mountain west, but also desert, high desert and the eastern US. For most of hunting season nothing really changes save insulation layers and sleep gear.



The posts will be laid out as such:

1). Overall view of gear for a September hunt.

2). Base layer and on body accessories

3). Outer layers

4). Shelter and sleeping

5). Food and water

6). Hard gear

7). Misc

 

[Formidilosus]

Overall view of gear for a mid September hunt.






High mountain, moderate temps.

Gear:

- SG R3 7900 with side bags
- thin base layer top and bottom
- T-shirt, outer pants
- Mid layer top
- Wind jacket
- liner sock and outer sock
- Water Proof sock
- Shoes/boots
- Gaiters
- Gloves
- Insulation: puff jacket and pants
- toboggan
- Scarf
- orange vest
- Tent
- Sleeping quilt
- Sleeping pad
- pillow
- ground cloth
- Sleeping shirt and pants
- Water bottle and container
- Ti or Aluminum cup
- game bags
- foam mat/seat
- personal stove
- Food and snacks (4 days)
- Accessory bag- battery pack, etc.
- Grill
- Hiking sticks
- Tripod and bino/spotter
- Bino Harness
- Bino LRF’s
- Garmin InReach
- Knife
- Emergency Bag
- Paper Map compass
- Rifle/scope, spare mag and ammo



All packed-

Without water or but everything else, that weighed 55lbs.

Bare-





Pack on-

 

[Formidilosus]

Base layer and on body accessories



Base layer- Aclima Woolnet top and bottom. I use netted base layers nearly 100% of the time now. The best performing base layers on the market, the wool version dries as quickly as thin synthetic and has all the other qualities of wool.

T-shirt- either a merino/synthetic blend from Duckworth or a blend synthetic from Scheels.

Socks- injinji Toe sock liners. Over top is Mongolian camel wool or Yak wool socks. Legitimately better in every regard of performance than merino. I carry and use when required a pair of waterproof socks.

Shoes/boots- Almost 100% of my use is with Vivo Barefoot Tracker Forest ESC’s. The next most used is Inov-8 Roclites of various models. Everything I wear is a flexible and minimal shoe.

Scarf- Is a cotton shemagh.

Toboggan- Two that I use- both are hand knit wool versions.


Gaiters- Fjallraven waxed G1000 canvas.


Gloves- Standard deer skin or thin cow leather work gloves, or Hestra Deerskin Wool Tricot gloves for most uses. Hestra Wakayama leather gloves with wool liner for cold.




Almost nothing listed here will change. In really cold weather and deep snow I will wear Mukluks, and potentially add a thicker base layer if I will be stationary. Gloves or mittens might change depending on conditions or actively. But, overall 20 years of constant searching and experimenting has lead to these categories, if not the exact items.

 

[Formidilosus]

Outer layers




Pants-




Most versatile- Fhallraven Keb Trousers. Waxable G1000 canvas on high wear areas, lower legs, and seat; stretch panels were needed. When waxed they are waterproof on the panels, yet allow excellent freedom of movement. Hip and lower legs vents, good pocket layouts, etc.


Best for cold weather (below 50°F’ish): Varusteleka Sarma TST Woolshell Trousers. I had them modified by reducing the size of, and moving the cargo pockets to the front of the thighs. I can’t stand things sticking out on my sides. Also, it allowed side hip zip vents to be added. Loops at the bottom of the cuff were added for stretch cord to make them ad hoc gaiters. Truly excellent winter pants.


Special use case- Stone Glacier De Haviland. Very good soft shell pants, but due to be synthetic with DWR their life span for full water resistance is relatively short like all synthetics. The waist closer/adjustment mechanism is the best on the market for pack use, the thigh pockets are well designed, and they have an excellent venting in long side hip zips. For short duration extreme conditions use, they are my preference.


The main differences between these pants are the materials. The SG’s are great, but I treat them as one time use throw away items- that goes for all soft shell pants. One horrible conditions hunt, them replace. The other two are multi year items.
The Keb Trousers I average two full years of huntings nd range use before the seam with start splitting. That could be better if I waxed them more. Still, they last by far the longest of any of the soft shell type hiking pants.
The Sarma TST wool pants are fantastic for later season use, and once daytime temps are in the 50’s for a high, I switch to them. They are neither too warm, nor too cold in cold weather even while hiking. Good wool regulates temperature better than almost anything, and if more people used well fitted, well made wool pants and jackets, the hunting clothing market would shrink dramatically because they wouldn’t want to or need to buy new pants each year. I bought and searched for the right pants nonstop until I found the Sarma’s and Keb Trousers. Now I wear and try new pants every year, but I don’t want to switch at all.


Tops- this one is a bit more convoluted as I don’t generally wear what most seem to for tops, and sometimes my outside layer is others mid layers or fleece.
There are basically two methods to deal with sweat- get dry or stay dry. I tend to favor stay dry and therefor try to limit sweating. I heat up and sweat very quickly, but also cool down very quickly. Until it is below 35°F or so, my upper body has just the Woolmet top and the t-shirt on. Below that and I will sometimes put a wind shirt on over that just to block the wind- either a very thin Arctyrx synthetic wind shirt that weighs about 4oz, or a Ventile cotton Redkettle Wind shell. The Arctyrx is lighter and dries faster, but it is fragile. The Ventile cotton Red Kettle is better at every other point.
Sometimes I use the Redkettle Light Hunting Jacket which is two layers of Ventile cotton with a hood, if it will be wet weather. Both breathe very well and are very durable, while being quite water resistant.


At times I will wear a wool vest over the base layer/t-shirt combo.

From top left, clockwise- Wool vest, Red Kettle Hunting jacket, Red Kettle Wind shell, nylon wind pullover.



Yes- Ventile cotton. Yes, it works.



Fleece, mid layers, etc.

Clockwise from top left- Atlantic Rancher Ranger sweater, waffle top, Red Kettle High loft fleece, OR Vigor Plus, SG Cirque Lite, Sitka Kelvin Active



Atlantic Rancher Ranger sweater. This is a merino blend with some synthetic and is THE sweater I have looked for years to find. It is warm, breathes excellently, dries well, durable, and extremely comfortable. By far my favorite mid layer even thought it is heavier than others.


Waffle top. This is a mil issue standard waffle top, most similar to the Patagonia R1- and sometimes they were R1’s. It’s a durable, functional and comfortable piece. This one has been used for well over a decade. Decent warmth, and dries out ok.

Red Kettle Fibrepile fleece. This jacket liner is fantastic in warmth and wicking water off. Very warm and you will overheat moving in it, but for pure comfort and coziness it it awesome. They don’t make it anymore and this one is sized snug to go under the Red Kettle Jacket. I use it, but if I had a size larger I would use it a lot in cold weather.

Outdoor Research Vigor Plus. This was given to me by Ryan Avery to see what on thought of it as an active jacket as he lives it for that use. I run hot as soon as I start moving and felt like I would catch fire in it hiking with a pack, however it has because my most worn fleece jacket- nearly everyday. And for certain hunts it works very well. People who’s skin isn’t the surface of the sun while moving really like it.

Stone Glacier Cirque Lite Jacket. This is newish and I haven’t used it all that much. So far it’s a good jacket, seems to breath decent, but I’m pretty sure I will soak it while wearing a pack.

Sitka Kelvin Active. Polertec Alpha is very good active insulation. Direct is better for breathability, but the normal is still quite good. I use this a lot, doing a lot of differ things. Nearly a perfect active piece, but like all of them the back gets soaked under a pack. Since I don’t wear it while moving with a pack, it doesn’t offer enough insulation for the weight to carry most times as a mid layer. If the back was just a panel of thin nylon, it would be the jacket I used the most.




Puff jackets and pants:


Clockwise from top left- Stone Glacier Grumman jacket and pants, First Lite Chamberlin, Kifaru Lost Park Parka, ECWCS puff jacket and pants.




Stone Glacier Grumman. Most used, most often puff layer. Have multiples of each. The one in the pic is the very first and has hundreds and hundreds of days of use on it. Longevity, packability, resistance to moisture, etc are all excellent. The only downsides for later seasons use, is that they are just not enough. Most often in November and on I double up on both the jacket and pants. A 12+ ounce version of them with a pullover for the jacket…. Yeah.


Firstlite Chamberlin. This is a comfortable jacket but has lost some loft since new- I suppose due to the 37.5 synthetic in it. It’s a bit heavy at 24oz, but is still the warmest packable hunting puffy on the market. I use this when it is cold and dry as it does not do very well with moisture.


Kifaru LPP. By far my preference for a synthetic puffy as I am an Anorak fan. The Climashield insulation is about as good as it gets for synthetics, but like all synthetics has a rather limited lifespan. That is to say it loses loft very quickly. 30 days of use and there is a noticeable decrease in loft. Between 60-90 days and 30-40% loss of loft is normal. After that it generally doesn’t lose much more. They are good for durability going through briar patches, but they don’t last long enough for a true insulation piece. I use them a bunch, but not for hunting much anymore.


ECWCS. This jacket and pants are mil issue and surplus. They like most synthetics are relatively durable with regards to wear and tear, but have a short lifespan losing loft quickly. I consider them a single season item at best. If that is what someone can afford they certainly work, but they are relatively heavy and bulky.



Rain gear:

Stone Glacier M5 jacket and pants



I don’t use rain gear that much in the mountain west, but the SG M5 set has worked well when I needed it. It’s relatively light, packs well, and has been durable.

 

[Formidilosus]

Shelter and sleeping

Clockwise from top left- Klymit pad, Exped, Thermorest pillow, SO Large stove, 6man SO Tipi and pole, Easton tent stakes, SG Sky Air tent.



Tent- Generally a 6 man Seek Outside Tipi with carbon fiber pole. Used continuously since 2013. Has been torn and repaired multiple times due to high winds- over 100mph gusts that tore out the stove section. Great for 2 people with a stove and gear, workable for 3 with stove and gear, cramped with 4, a stove and gear. Heavy for 1 person, though I’ve carried it a lot when it was just me due to the stove. This is ending its service life and will need to be replaced in the next season or two.

When a heated shelter isn’t needed, or when weight is a true priority, I have been using a Stone Glacier Sky Air single man with liner. Extremely small and light, with enough room to sleep comfortably. I haven’t seen or felt the need to change from this since they were brought out.

All the tent stakes are Easton stakes, by far the best at getting though frozen ground and not bending of any I have seen.



Stove- Seek Outside large. Has been a very good stove bought with the SO 6man tipi, and it too will probably be replaced in the next couple of years.



Ground sheet- Seek Outside Matty McMattface 1/8” foam wide and long version. They are not very durable, but are excellent at keeping the sleeping pad and bag from sliding on top.


Pillows- Thermorest foam medium (I think). They are comfortable when new, but do get compressed in use. Not content with this and am searching for other options.


Sleeping pads- Two that have gotten most of use the last few years. First in the Exped Downmat 9 LW. Has been great- very good insulation, comfortable, with no holes until the cat got ahold of it last season. Have been repairing it ever since, but it needs to go back to Exped to fix.
The second one is the Klymit Klmaloft pad. R value isn’t that high relative to weight, but it is comfortable with the foam top. And because of that foam, seems warmer to me when I sleep than it should.


I’ve used almost all the legitimate backpacking high R value pads and Expeds have across the board been the best with regards to comfort and durability. Thermorest Xtherms of various versions are good as well, though tend to be load and not as comfortable to me and others in general.




Sleeping system- I have and do use three different types- sleeping bags, quilts, and the Zen Bivy.


Bags-
Left to right- Marmot Never Summer 0° down. Kifaru Slick 0° synthetic. Stone Glacier Chilkoot °.



The Marmot bag I’ve had the longest- 12-13 years, and has been excellent the whole time. There was one hunt that was extremely humid before I got the stove, that the bag sagged a bit from moisture- maybe 20% less loft after a week of water and humidity that would freeze at night. Zero problems sleeping in the bag, and it would lift back up with body heat.

Kifaru Slick. Good to very good synthetic bag. Have had this one since 2016 I believe and it has been used the least by far- 25’ish nights total. The reason is because of the reality of synthetic insulation- it has short lifespan for performance. I have used Slick bags a bunch, and have seen a bunch used, and just like synthetic puff jackets noticeable loss in loft happens at about 30 days of use (you can already see the above one looking kind of deflated). Between 60-90 days about 40%’ish is lost and is permanent. Once they hit that point they stay the same for the most part.


Stone Glacier Chilkoot. Have used a lot since they came out- the first few years were an hundred plus nights a year use. Excellent mummy bag. Slightly asymmetrical/egg shaped which allows more room inside, very good warmth and pack ability, and has done multiple full rewarming drills- moisture is not a concern. I’ve slept in the bag with my sleeping base layer and a hot water bottle to -20°F (might have been -22°F) without issue. As far as mummy bags go, for quality, warmth, weight, packability, resistance to moisture, and longevity- these are excellent bags.


Quilts and ZenBivy:

Left or right- Enlightened Equip Revelation 20°, Zen Bivy Light bed 10°, Stone Glacier Chilkoot 32° quilt-




Enlightened Equipment Revelation 20°. This is a long/wide. Have had this since 2016 and is my most used sleeping bag/quilt. It has lost quite a bit of down due to burning and tears as evidenced by the patches and tape everywhere, and is nowhere near a 20° quilt now. However, when in its prime it was (and is) a fantastic quilt. I have slept in it with a hot water bottle and sleeping base layers (I’m the ZenBivy) below -10°F. Before the Zenbivy this was my preformed for sleeping.

Stone Glacier Chilkoot quilt 32°. This is relatively new- a couple of years, but it is a fine quilt. The quality is as good as any, the issue I have with it is that I am not a minimalist quilt user- I use quilt because they are more comfortable than a mummy bag. I want a quilt that is Extra long and Extra wide to wrap up in and have no drafts. When used with the pad straps this quilt works very well and on hunts that don’t get below the upper 30°’s F at nights, it makes comfortable, very small and light option.


Zenbivy Bed system. I have used this since it came to market 5-6 years ago and the amount of nights is more than the SG bag, and probably close to the Marmot. Bluntly this is the most comfortable sleep system made and it’s not even close. Every single person I know that has tried it has switched completely and they have no intention of straying.
The 10° F light bed is by far the warmest option of all the bags and quilts shown here- I’ve slept dozens of nights between -15°F and -20°F and colder once or twice. Down to around 0° or -5°F I will sweat in it if I use a hot water bottle with just sleeping layers. I don’t attach the sides until well below 20°F, don’t use a hot water bottle, still will have to vent, and there will be moisture on the outside that has pushed through.


Sleeping clothes:

I do not get in my sleeping bags dirty- ever. It will have to be a full on emergency for that to happen. I wash off with baby wipes head to toe at a minimum, and usually a hand towel bath.
Dirt and oil gets in the fabric and insulation and starts breaking it down or causing a loss in loft. With that, I have a long sleeve merino blend hoody and base layer bottoms that I wear to bed- helps with warmth but also keeps the bags clean and oil free. All of my bags used heavily- by real definitions, all look brand new inside.

 

[Formidilosus]

Food and water:

Food is almost always freeze dried meals- I greatly dislike bars.

Top right, clockwise- Sea To Summit Watercell, Ti spork, Jetboil, 2x Nalgenes- not shown is a Ti mug that a Nalgene fits in.






Nalgene Water battles. Due to heavy use in below freezing weather, bladders and drink tubes do not work. Beyond that, all that I have used save the MSR Dromdary’s have failed and leaked at some point, and over half the of them that I have seen used have failed at some point. Nalgenes are durable, reliable, can be put inside your coat to stay warm or keep from freezing. As well, boil a Jetboil full of water, put it in the Nalgene, then put the now hot Nalgene in the foot of your sleeping bag.


Water storage- Sea To Summit Watercell. Grabbed this last year on the way to a sheep hunt. Was looking for a Dromdary, but they didn’t have any and saw this. Sonic welded seams, TPU construction, and 3d shape make this thing awesome. The spout is a neat design, the handle/hanging strap works well, it fits in lots of places a round tube bladder doesn’t, etc. Extremely durable. I filled it up at the truck and stood on it, threw it 10’ish yards, etc. (I really dislike bladders leaking in my pack). Used it the whole season and will be getting more of them. Only bladder that doesn’t make me want to kick a kitten.


Jetboil and Ti Spork. I have used, continue to use, and see used all the stove systems. A separate stove and pot sucks. About the second or third time someone knocks over their water or food the rage monster comes out, and the moment we get back to civilization the first thing they do is buy a canister system.
A buddy this year was the longest lasting with a separate stove/pot- he lasted 3’ish weeks of backpack hunting spread over two seasons with an MSR Pocket Rocket and Ti pot before he knocked it over the first time.
He had literally just finished telling me that it had never happened to him, turned around and splash. Laughed, filled the pot back up, started it, and two minutes later knocked it over again. Thats a full Nalgene and there wasn’t anywhere to get water where we were glassing from. He sighed, laughed, and said “I’m getting a Jetboil”.
As far as the Jetboil of any of the others such as the Windburner, etc. most of them are good, but in using them side by side for long periods, I keep coming back to the Jetboil- it boils fast in really cold weather, the stove and canister stay together and fit in the cup/pot, it has its own ignitor- it’s just easy. The one shown is one of the first they made- 2007 or 8 maybe? Have rebuilt the igniter, and multiple lids due to a dog chewing them, but that’s it.

The spork is Ti and I’ve had it for quite a while. A long handled one is better.




Hard gear:



Accessory bag is top left. That is clipped inside the pack. It contained a battery bank/phone charger, extra batteries, some OTC meds, sleeping pad and bag repair kit and patches, water purification tablets, lighter, and a high vis signal panel.

Most of that is self explanatory. For water in most scenarios it’s melting snow in the Jet Boil. Again due to temperatures, a water filter doesn’t work. They freeze and break. Water tabs get the most work.
First aid kit- in red. This is the new S2H one that @PNWGATOR is helping with. The contents aren’t totally finalized yet, but this is the initial one. Light, and the bag is stretchy.

Headband and mustard packets is in the left hip belt pouch. Sitka women’s headband. Fantastic for keeping the ears warm while letting the heat from your head escape. Mustard (or better spicy mustard) helps greatly with muscle cramps and my homie @mtnwrunner educated me about it a few years ago. I/we use it all the time now and it works.

Extra sleeve of ammunition goes in the top lid.


Cont in next post….

 

[Formidilosus]

Cont…



Purcel Trench Packers Grill was a gift from a fine figure of a man, its light and great for grilling meat/fish on while hunting.




Seat. Stealthy Hunter Sit pad @Ryan Avery gave this to me last year. I’ve been using the same foam sit pad from Walmart for probably 15 years. He liked this one, and said it’s kind of silly to say because it’s just a foam pad- but it’s great. Having used it for a full season of hunting and a bunch of shooting, it’s great. It’s water resistant/proof, about the right density, light, straps to the pack easily, you can kneel one it, sit on it, use it as a cutting board/food board- its how a sit pad should be.


Orange vest have had since I was a teenager.

Hiking sticks are Cascade Mountaim Tech or Walmart branded CMT’s. Carbon fiber with cork handles. They kast as long as any made- I think one person has broken one pole in a hard fall, out of dozens of sets for 7-8 years used constantly. I want a lightish pole that collapses, that has a cork handle, preferably without finger grooves. The CMT are about as close as any come.


Shooting bag- S2H Molinator. I don’t or haven’t carried a shooting bag while hunting because- they all are a heavy (pun) compromise. Either they are good for shooting but heavy and bulky, or they are light, but suck for shooting.
I have been looking for a bag to clip onto the pack for a front rest as I do not use a bipod generally. The pack works great except for steep side hill shooting and then the rifle wants to slide downhill, so you have to build up the pack or hold the forend. I have thought about using duct tape and foam to build a U shaped rest in the pack ala old school sniper rucks, but then it wouldn’t be removable and would be heavier than I wanted. Enter @Ryan Avery and Jake with Shoot2Hunt last fall. Started using this for shooting in the range as a front bag, it works very well and is stable, though very light. Didn’t take it hunting for most of the season, though should have, but did in the last hunt. Routing the center compression steps of the pack through the handles kept it in place, and it worked perfectly for two elk. I dislike giving Ryan or Jake credit… but it’s a really good front bag for field use. I’m going to request a strap modification for pack use, but it still works great as is.






Spotting setup:




Tripod- is a Slik CF 634. Very good balance of weight and stability. Of what I’ve used for backpacking it is what I prefer. I don’t prefer the twist lock system as it is slow, but it does work. The head is a simple ball head off of a Vortex Summit (I think it was called)- that tripod had the fastest and best leg locking mechanism I’ve used, but they kept breaking. The bino adapter is a Swarovski.

15x56mm Swarovski binos- Whatbibtaje and use 95% of the time now. Glassing and slotting shots is so much better/easier than with a spotter. The glass Swarovski’s is fantastic, but they are fragile binos. I baby observation device sad much as possible- always in a padded case and never slamming them down in the pack, etc. even still I average 18 months (fall, spring, fall hunting seasons) between needing to go back and be serviced due to failure. Swaro repaired a busted focus wheel, collimation, and eyepiece in Sept of ‘22, and the focus wheel already has backlash and gets gritty/clicky at times, also they are losing collimation a bit randomly- all of which is a precursor to failure. This is not isolated/ I am around 10-12 that gets used, and they all have to go in for service way more than any other “alpha” class binos or spotters. Great glass, but fragile. Most have switched to Meopta B1 Plus 15x binos and I still don’t know anyone that has needed service after 3-4 years. They also have great glass, and 100% are a better choice for most.

What is needed is a great 15x56 or 60mm bino with a “L” shaped mil reticle in the lower left or right FOV.


Swarovski STR 80 25-50x80mm spotting scope with electronic reticle. The glass is top shelf of course, but as a general field spotter it has compromises- too much low end mag, and extremely short eye relief.
First, 25x is way too high for a field spotter- quickly setting up and finding animals that are moving requires a large FOV, and spotting shots does not require extremely high magnification- quite the opposite. 15x or so on the low end would be about right. As for high end mag, most of the time due to mirage nothing over 30-40x is unusable. For sheep and counting rings, etc., yes high mag is good, but more than likely it would be a different spotter altogether.
The real issue as a field spotter is short eye relief- and this applies to all Swarovskis and almost all spotters in general. To get a full field of view inside, you have to touch or nearly so the eyepiece- some have to be jammed inside your eye socket. First it’s stupid and uncomfortable. Second, it causes image shake from touching it. This short eye relief is the primary reason I believe that people like angled spotters. It sucks and once people see it using others with better eye relief, most can’t unsee it.


Leupold Mark 4 12-40x60mm with Horus reticle. Having used about every spotter on the market this is overall the best field spotter right now readily available- the Hensoldt Spotter 45 was very good. The 12x on the low end mag is great for quickly setting up and finding animals, 12-18x is good for spotting shots, and 30’ish mag is good for identification and at least in the Horus reticle versions- the glass is quite good. Side by side with Swaro and Kowa’s, there hasn’t been a time where a point or animal couldn’t be identified at 30-40x within, and not the Leupold.
I have used and seen used a bunch of these spotters, and this one had been straight abused for over a decade purposely trying to get it to fail, before the eyepiece came out last spring. I put it back in and used it until mid summer, then sent it back to Leupold. While it was gone I used the Swaro STR80 and missed the Leupold every time. Side by side there is no situation for all a round field use where I would, or do choose the Swaro above, or other normal spotting scope over the Mark 4.
An “Alpha” level spotter designed similar to this with a “L” shaped mil reticle in the lower left or right of the FOV would be fantastic.


Phone adaptor- This is just a universal adapter that I have used for a few years. Waiting to find one that I don’t have to take the case I use, off of the phone for.



Bino LRF and Bino pouch:



Binos are Revic BLR10b laser RF. Bino pouch is a modified Stone Glacier with attached mag and weather meter pouch and GP pouch. As you wear it looking down, and the right side is the GP pouch. It holds a spare round, lighters, fire starting kit, water purification tabs, knife sharpener, spare batteries, headlamp, signal mirror, and lens pen. Also in the pouch is an “emergency bag” which is only opened in a true emergency. Between the GP pouch and main bino bag is a knife- in this case a CS Canadian Belt knife, and a InReach Mini. Then moving left, the main bino, behind it in the back pockets is a DA and quick mil card, and spare ear plugs, and under it is a TQ. Between Bino and mag carrier is chapstick. Finally all the way left is a spandex mag pouch and weather meter pouch.


Packs

Exo K4 7200 on left and stone Glacier R3 7900 with side bags on right.


I have more “high end” packs than most- 5-6 Kifarus, 6-7 Mystery Ranches, 4 SG frames and 5-6 bags, 2-3 Hill People Gear packs, multiple Exo K3 and K4’s with all three larger bags, plus a variety of normal hiking packs. Have owned and used a lot more. I use and try new packs basically nonstop, but for my use and most that I am around, it’s mainly the SG and Exo packs now with some caveats.

This one will be a bit long because I get more questions, and there are more arguments and hate over packs than about anything- people get really emotionally invested in certain pack brands, generally without a deep experience base of the rest of the market, and certainly without seeing a bunch of people use them side by side to gauge a general consensus.

An explanation of bag design and use. With a focus on western maintain hunting, primarily later seasons rifle hunting. I and those I generally hunt with want a bag that allows necessary items to be accessed quickly and without getting in the main bag, or undoing a bunch of the main compression straps. For instance access to- tripod and spotter/binos, puff jacket and pants, rain suit, and sit pad. Don’t want to undue the main straps to get those items, and certainly not opening the main bag. Also, side water bottle pockets that are deep enough that a Nalgene doesn’t get pushed out of the pocket when you set the pack down. This does not mean exterior pockets everywhere or add on pockets, aka most newer Kifarus.

Exo K3 6400- 25-30 animals packed out.



Tbc….

 

[Formidilosus]

Cont….


The K3 was nearly perfect. The frame is solid, the belt locks in well, the shoulder straps carry pretty well, and the whole thing carried weight- though they tend to have a slight squeak when loaded down. Exo has the best lid in the business with no sagging or flopping, and well designed pockets. They also have the best/fastest/most intuitive load shelf access on the market. The locket layout is really good- the center stretch pocket is large enough to fit 15x bino or a spotter in, the side open top pockets easily fit puff suit and rain suit, the outside bottom stretch pocket fit the tripod well with the top cinched by the top compression strap. Getting to it all is easy- set pack done in from you you, pull tripod out and set up, loosen on lid strap and pull spotter out, loosen other top side strap and pull puff suit out, slide pad off, sit down and glass. Didn’t have to open the main bag or any zipper, the bag can be thrown in as is and carried without issue if needed, and everything goes back in without fuss. Out lunch and the stove in the lid and you didn’t need to open the back at all during the day.

But, and it’s a big but- the belt will tear away from the frame if pulled on. Say if the pack is loaded with meat or gear and in the back of the truck bed, if you grab the belt and pull towards you, the stitches tear and the belt comes off. This was only discovered at the bottom of a valley about to go up and get a bull I had killed, stopped to get water, put pack on hiked up belt to tighten and it just came away from the frame. So I’m standing there looking at my buddy, 3 miles from the TH holding my frame belt with a dead elk to retrieve. Carried first load out and swapped packs at the truck. The reason why this happened wasn’t apparent until I ripped another belt off pulling the pack out of the truck in a later hunt. Then, it was obvious what was happening, and it’s pretty much in demand. It’s only when pulling the belt down, opposite of the lid that it happens, normal use/strain isn’t a problem. I carried 3 adult antelope out a bit over a mile in canyon country just to test it- pack was fine.

This happened to me twice, and to buddies 2-3 times. It’s just a failure mode that won’t work for me.


Exo K4- 3600, 5000, 7200- 7-8 animals packed out.


This frame and suspension is in general an upgrade over the K3, and the belt failure was completely addressed. It carries well, the load shelf access if easy peasy, the lid is still top notch, etc. But…. The bag designs are a total failure for how I/we use them. I have no doubt that people love the design, and for archery warm weather hunting I probably wouldn’t care- as they are, I want to throw them off a cliff every time I use them. I started the season with the 3600 K4 in the spring, was aggravated by the bag, switched to a Stone Glacier for a sheep hunt, then switched back to the K4 7200 for all of the fall- and I was pissy every time I had to use it.

Starting with the 5000, here’s why-




I’m not sure what functional use the front zippered attach pocket was for, because you can fit about a snickers, a pair of socks, and maybe a beenie if you have a small head. It certainly can’t fit much else.

Here it is with a pair of socks, gaiters, and a scarf. It is bursting at the seams, and is intruding (pushing) into the internal main bag space-



A spotter or bino is nowhere close to fitting.



The side zippered pockets-




To access you must undue the main compression straps, and anything held by them falls away, like such-



What you can’t see is that my bino adaptor now has compacted snow in it that has to be cleaned out before being able to be used. Oh, and the side pockets themselves are ok sized, but anything put into them intrudes into the main bag space as soon as you tighten the side straps-





And, if you have a tripod, hiking sticks, and etc., strapped to the outside, all of the pressure from the compression strap is being put directly into whatever is in that pocket- If I cinch that side strap down, it will break the bridge of the binos.




All of that mostly applies to the 3600 and 7200 as well.

3600- stretched to the absolute max to fit these, and it’s intruding into the main bag space.


Same issues with the side zip pockets on the 3600 as the 5000.



7200- the front stretch pocket is a bit larger, and fits items better, but it still pushes back into (bulges into) the main bag. The side pockets are the same as the others.




I am not the only one that has issues with this design. I hunted with 6-7 people using K4’s this year, all of them liked to loved the frame and the way it carried weight, and all of them but one hated the bags. They switched them out as soon as they could. Two of those guys said I was crazy about why I didn’t like them and that they had used them in multiple hunts and trips and had none of those issues… and when side by side they both stayed “wtf were they designed like this?”

I’m sure Exo has its reasons, but it strikes me as bag designed by hyper OCD packers, that hunt early season archery and/or don’t use a tripod and spotter in cold weather much, and are more concerned with getting pine needles in a pocket than absolute function. The difference is so stark because of how functional the K3 bags were.





Stone Glacier R3 7000 with side bags- 30-40 animals packed out, way over 100 with X-Curve frames.


I have used most of their bags and packs that they make. The X-Curve carries well, has a good meat shelf if a bit convoluted to get to, bags are decently designed, etc. There were a couple of issues- the lid flopped and was saggy, the side pockets were way too short and water bottles would pop out when the pack was set down, they needed side pockets for spotter/puff suit/etc, the front zipper pocket would intrude into the main bag, and a quicker/easier access to the laid shelf.

Well, the R3 7000 had deep stretch water bottle pockets on the side, the lid was modified and doesn’t sag or flop now, slightly changed the bag attachment to the frame to allow much quicker access to load shelf, changed the front zipper pocket to bellow out instead of into the bag, and added optional side “wing” pouches.
Now, its set the pack down, pull tripod out from side water bottle pocket without loosening any strap, unzip one side pouch and pull bino/spotter out, unzip other side pouch, put on puff suit, slide out sit pad- done. Lunch and the stove can fit in the side pouches as well. No straps undone, bag not opened, can be repacked quickly and/or thrown on and carried well, etc.





Overall, I have no real gripes with the new SG R3 7000 with side bags- it doesn’t everything it should. Now, just need the 3300 and 5900 to match it.

The Exo K4 with the old style bags would be fantastic.

 

[Dobermann]

- toboggan

I can't wait to hear about that one ...

[Edited: turns out that's a beanie/wool hat, not a sled. And here was I thinking that Form was about to blow our minds with some newfangled-old tech way of covering ground in snowy conditions. Right, as you were ...]

 

[DakotaBPNW]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, it’s time intensive to get this amount of information out there but it’s definitely beneficial to everyone. Especially those of us that like to nerd out on our gear.

 

[JollyRoger]

Thanks for putting this together. It’s good to see since it’s not the conventional stuff most are using.

I’ve got a ton of questions but first: Why/how are soft shell pants a one time use item? Is it the DWR that’s never quite the same? Or are they getting shredded?

My experience with mountain hunting, and 20 years of mountaineering and ice climbing is that most softshell garments perform their best when new, but they maintain durability and breathability for a long time. And are generally pretty durable at the expense of weight and usually not waterproof

 

[Moose83]

Base layer and on body accessories

View attachment 675075

Base layer- Aclima Woolnet top and bottom. I use netted base layers nearly 100% of the time now. The best performing base layers on the market, the wool version dries as quickly as thin synthetic and has all the other qualities of wool.

T-shirt- either a merino/synthetic blend from Duckworth or a blend synthetic from Scheels.

Socks- injinji Toe sock liners. Over top is Mongolian camel wool or Yak wool socks. Legitimately better in every regard of performance than merino. I carry and use when required a pair of waterproof socks.

Shoes/boots- Almost 100% of my use is with Vivo Barefoot Tracker Forest ESC’s. The next most used is Inov-8 Roclites of various models. Everything I wear is a flexible and minimal shoe.

Scarf- Is a cotton shemagh.

Toboggan- Two that I use- both are hand knit wool versions.


Gaiters- Fjallraven waxed G1000 canvas.


Gloves- Standard deer skin or thin cow leather work gloves, or Hestra Deerskin Wool Tricot gloves for most uses. Hestra Wakayama leather gloves with wool liner for cold.




Almost nothing listed here will change. I’m really cold weather and deep snow I will wear Mukluks, and potentially add a thicker base layer if I will be stationary. Gloves or mittens might change depending on conditions or actively. But, overall 20 years of constant searching and experimenting has lead to these categories, if not the exact items.

How are the fjallraven gaiters for quiet compared to something like the or crocs?

 

[DakotaBPNW]

How are the fjallraven gaiters for quiet compared to something like the or crocs?

That G1000 fabric is quieter that the Croc material in my experience. I have a few jackets made from that material and they are certainly quieter than my Crocs have been, especially when they have a good coat of wax on them.

 

[2y2c]

I knew as soon as the first picture was posted that this thread was going to cost me money.

 

[BLJ]

In for more info.

 

[5MilesBack]

[Edited: turns out that's a beanie/wool hat, not a sled. And here was I thinking that Form was about to blow our minds with some newfangled-old tech way of covering ground in snowy conditions. Right, as you were ...]

I was thinking he used it to haul quarters out in the snow. I know a guy that uses those cheap Walmart plastic sleds to do that.

 

[Drew_knapp]

Shoes/boots- Almost 100% of my use is with Vivo Barefoot Tracker Forest ESC’s. The next most used is Inov-8 Roclites of various models. Everything I wear

Almost nothing listed here will change. I’m really cold weather and deep snow I will wear Mukluks, and potentially add a thicker base layer if I will be stationary. Gloves or mittens might change depending on conditions or actively. But, overall 20 years of constant searching and experimenting has lead to these categories, if not the exact items.

Appreciate all the time you invest and information you give! Been getting into the minimalist footwear for a couple years now. How are the vivos as far as being waterproof. How do you treat them? I'm also struggling with a winter choice as my feet get cold EASY. What brand of mukluks are you using and do you know of any other cold weather options.

 

[ljalberta]

I can't wait to hear about that one ...

[Edited: turns out that's a beanie/wool hat, not a sled. And here was I thinking that Form was about to blow our minds with some newfangled-old tech way of covering ground in snowy conditions. Right, as you were ...]

First time in my life I’ve ever heard someone call a toque a toboggan. I also had to Google this. Southern speak it turns out.

 

[MuleyFever]

All the Fjallraven pants in the classifieds will now sell.

 

[ljalberta]

First Q for me, on the Woolnet bottoms, any thoughts on the 3/4 length vs full length? And any thoughts on the Woolnet Hybrid top for colder weather, or stick with the original top and up the mid layer?