Settle bullet choice in this scenario please (big elk or moose in timber)

[BoiseDoc]

You are in thick timber with a large bodied bull elk or moose standing hard quartered toward you. The thoracic outlet is obstructed by anterior scapula. You have a window to take the shot and it’s 80 yards to 150 yards. The bullet will have to go through a “significant” amount of muscle and at least some scapula and ribs to make the thoracic cavity. This is an absolute no go for an arrow. You have a 300 WSM. Would you rather a 181 hammer hunter, 212 Eldx or 215 Berger to make this shot? Muzzle velocity 2900, 2700 and 2700 respectively. This scenario is driving me crazy.

The broadside at 400 yards is easy with all three. The 600 with a steady crosswind favors the 212 or 215. Any further with wind and I am not comfortable shooting. But the above scenario is the one that I can’t decide.

Building the rifle currently and plan to have it throated for one of these bullets.

Thanks

 

[BoiseDoc]

Too far for a bow but was referring to the bony structures with regards to penetration before someone questions my sanity.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’d take the hammer. Break the shoulder with the first round and a quick follow up to finish it. Moose aren’t going anywhere if the scapula is busted up.

 

[Marble]

I'm torn between the hammer and ELDx. I actually have zero experience with all of those.

What I can say is at 80 yards with a 180 AB I have had deadly results but poor penetration. Meaning that at slightly longer ranges of say 200 yards or more, the bullet tends to go right on through whatever it hits.

This is from a 300 WM @ 3200 fps. I just think it's not built to have impacts like that.


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[Marble]

I'll add...if I were to choose any bullet it would be a 200 grain partition. I would shoot it in whatever line I need to to reach the vitals.

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[BoiseDoc]

The idea behind the hammer would lead me to believe in the case of a bone hit, humerus, the bullet would plow through. I think ideally I’d like the idea of a more ballistically efficient projectile ideally. I’ve shot a bunch of deer with various bullets growing up in the south East. Honestly whitetail don’t stop bullets in my opinion. I’ve only shot an elk with an arrow. I don’t know that I will hunt moose but would love a do all set up; here lies the conundrum. My boys have shot a few mulies with a 6.5 CM eldx factory load. All dead. That’s all the eldx experience I have. As an archery hunter I have a hard time looking at an animal and believing the bony structures will stop a bullet if I’m honest. Just read about an eldx blowing up on a rib or a bullet grenade with a Berger or a mono leaving a tiny wound channel etc. seems like somebody has a negative opinion or experience with every bullet.

 

[ODB]

Heaviest/highest SD premium bonded/monometal you can stuff in it.

 

[wildwilderness]

From your list it would be the Hammer. Back in the day I used a 168 TTSX in my WSM at 3190 fps with great results on elk, and busting bones

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I would aim for the rib opening for the esophagus and shoot it frontal. Berger 215, Berger 200.20x, Hornady 208 eldm. Only mono I would shoot are Cutting Edge Bullets.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The idea behind the hammer would lead me to believe in the case of a bone hit, humerus, the bullet would plow through. I think ideally I’d like the idea of a more ballistically efficient projectile ideally. I’ve shot a bunch of deer with various bullets growing up in the south East. Honestly whitetail don’t stop bullets in my opinion. I’ve only shot an elk with an arrow. I don’t know that I will hunt moose but would love a do all set up; here lies the conundrum. My boys have shot a few mulies with a 6.5 CM eldx factory load. All dead. That’s all the eldx experience I have. As an archery hunter I have a hard time looking at an animal and believing the bony structures will stop a bullet if I’m honest. Just read about an eldx blowing up on a rib or a bullet grenade with a Berger or a mono leaving a tiny wound channel etc. seems like somebody has a negative opinion or experience with every bullet.

Just my 2c, I’d not choose the eldx for a moose. I’ve seen several of those bullets separate and just sort of suck in general. Maybe they are good at expanding at low velocities but I dont think they do great at moose hunting distances.

In my experience, people who like the eldx like them because they shoot accurately at the range or they successfully killed deer or sheep or something that isn’t that tough.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I don’t have experience on moose with any of the bullets you asked about but I did shoot two moose with a 300 RUM using 200 gr Accubonds. The first bull was within 35 yards for the first shot and much closer for the next two. The second bulls was hard quartering toward me at 50 yards and I expected him to drop in his tracks. He didn’t and it took a couple more shots. I was less than impressed with penetration, and I am sure the Accubond is stouter than the Hornady or Berger bullets you asked about. I suspect that part of my problem was the 3150 fps muzzle velocity and close range shots.

When I drew my my next moose tag, I used 200 gr Barnes LRXs in my RUM. The bull dropped in his tracks with a hard quartering shot between the shoulder and neck at about 50 yards.

If I were to go moose hunting again with a 30 cal magnum, I would use a mono bullet from Barnes or Hammer, a Nosler Partition, or a Swift A-Frame.

 

[hodgeman]

Of the three you listed, I'd take the Hammer for the scenario you spelled out.

I've taken several moose with the 180AB in a 300WSM. No issues at all. Moose are pretty dang big with a vital zone the size of a chevy small block and not that hard to sneak up on. I'd worry more about bullet construction and a lot less about aerodynamic efficiency.

 

[5MilesBack]

I have no experience with the Hammer's, but have used the ELD-X and Berger on deer. Based on those performances, I wouldn't even consider those two for this scenario. For elk my choice always was and is in this scenario........Swift A-frame. Those were the shots I planned for, for elk hunting. They will blow right through all that bone and exit on the offside.

 

[Kentk]

I agree with irked. Why aim for bone? Better shot placement and it doesn't much matter what bullet you use.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

I'm torn between the hammer and ELDx. I actually have zero experience with all of those.

What I can say is at 80 yards with a 180 AB I have had deadly results but poor penetration. Meaning that at slightly longer ranges of say 200 yards or more, the bullet tends to go right on through whatever it hits.

This is from a 300 WM @ 3200 fps. I just think it's not built to have impacts like that.


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The eldx and Berger wouldn’t do better than an AB. They aren’t bonded and most likely would fragment pretty fast dumping tons of energy early. The partition would be a much better bullet for this.

 

[5MilesBack]

I agree with irked. Why aim for bone? Better shot placement and it doesn't much matter what bullet you use.

Because sometimes, that's the only shot you'll get on a big bull. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

 

[madcalfe]

I wouldn’t choose any of them.
I run a 300wsm with 180gr accubonds, doing 3025fps. Which is plenty out to your 600 yard limit.

Here’s one shot quartering away at 50yard


Here’s another taken at 30 yards


I’ve also shot a few mountain goats out to 500. 180 accubonds and the 300wsm is a great combo,

 

[Rifles And More]

30-06 with 200 Partition
30-30 with 170 Partition
35 WCF with 250 Partition

....see the theme?

The 300 WSM with the 200NP would be a great combo - even out to ranges farther than you think.

Out of your choice, I suppose the Hammer, although I have no experience with them.

 

[2five7]

215 Berger for all scenarios involving Elk, it will make that shot no problem.

 

[BoiseDoc]

Thank you everyone. Now I just need to quit bow hunting so I can get a rifle tag.