Situational advice - Help me kill this bull

[psp8ball]

As I was driving home from work the other day listening to an ElkNut cd I was reminded of a hunt scenario from this past year that has happened to us repeatedly. I thought I'd reach out to you all to see if you've encountered something similar and what you have done that has been successful. (Or not)

The Scenario
September 20-29th. There is a herd bull, usually a 260-280 6 point with 6-10 cows/calves. One, sometimes two small 5 point satellites. He might bugle twice in the morning, maybe once or twice in the evening. He runs his harem from one end to the other silently. He will not answer location bugles (close or far away). He will not answer cow calls. Casual cow talk or estrous calls(hyper lip style). The satellites are silent as well. Shadowing the herd at 150 yards. Due to the heavy timber, spot and stalk is not an option.

Additional Detail
The area is a 2 mile long ridge that runs E-W. Dark timber on the entire North slope with some smaller parks. The area sees a moderate amount of bowhunting pressure.

The above scenario is one we have been plagued with for years. It's so frustrating! To know there are elk there. And many times be in the right spot, at the right time, and still not be able to make anything work. Or even kind of work. In my head this bull is happy with his 6 cows, and has no motivation to bugle to find more. His puny satellite bulls aren't a threat, so they don't warrant a bugle as well.

On the bright side, because we have run into this same scenario, on this same mountain year after year, I feel like if we can figure out a solution to getting this bull to come in, we can implement the same strategy on the next bull who takes his place and thinks he's too smart.

So... help me kill this bull.

 

[FlyGuy]

I assume you can see him at times (not just hear him)? Maybe feeding on the adjacent southern slope? Have you been able to bed them down?

If so, Ever tried slow stalking in close and trying to get within 80ish yards before calling? Or just sitting tight and waiting for a shot opportunity once he gets up?




You can’t cheat the mountain

 

[Ridge Ghost]

He wasn't bugling much because none of his cows were hot at the time. If one came into estrus, you could bet that both he and the satellites would be much more vocal.

I'm sure Elknut will chime in eventually if he sees this. Based on what I've learned from him so far, wait for the herd to stop moving and bed. Set up as close by and give them the slow play tactic to paint the picture of a hot cow close by.

 

[5MilesBack]

For me, if they don't want to play my way, I move on. It sounds like an ambush might be in order for that bull, but you might need more intel on how and where. I'd try to call his cows away from him, and then he either has to confront you or he gives you the cows with his tail between his legs. Those latter bulls don't interest me.

 

[elkguide]

Once you sit down in your recliner, in front of your TV with a great show on, do you want to get up and do something else? Sounds like your bull has gotten pretty comfortable in his Lazy Boy and doesn't want anything different or more.
So from what you have described, I see a couple of options. Since he is comfortable, unless you can make him uncomfortable, he's going to keep on, keeping on. You have to get inside his comfort zone and mess with his comfort zone. The other option would be to figure out where they are going and get there first and ambush him on his way in. Don't you just love elk hunting?!?!?!

 

[2five7]

Get in as close as possible.. Bust a cow on purpose, then call your heart out with a challenge bugle. He will often come see who is in his bedroom with one of his girls. This has worked many times for me in similar situations.

 

[Wrench]

I've been in the same situation. I shot another bull and when I was tracking him, stomping around breaking branches, sounding like a herd of elk, that bull came in....he walked right to me.

I called him in one day at the 14th or so to about 80 yards and had a cow right in my face at 10. He watched her and looked for me, but wouldn't budge any closer. I figured I'd never see him again. Then the above happened.

 

[ElkNut1]

On Forums as this we hear the word 'Situational' quite a bit, this too is one of those 'Situations' -- The bulls there are being affected & conditioned by the hunting pressure, simple as that! What this means is they've been bugled , cow called or bugled & cow called too repeatedly. At first they most likely came to hunters calling but survived for whatever reasons. Now they are suspicious to sounds heard by hunters that are not from elk they recognize or have been around for the last few weeks.

Too, by your description there are no hot cows present at the time of your hunts or else you would be in some serious bugling action from the bulls present. -- I hunt similar elk & country as you, generic calling rarely gets it done unless you are the first or second one messing with these elk or a cow starts showing signs of estrus, it's apparent you are not so you must switch gears in your thinking to draw these elk in!

As Ridgeghost mentions this 'Situation' calls for the Slow Play Breeding Sequence' -- This sequence rarely lets me down even on the most call shy bulls around. (the slow play can be found in the search function) The reason it works is because you present your own Situation right under their noses without calling to them until one finally calls to your sequence! Bottom line, you will arouse those bulls Instinct to Breed with your sequence! It flat draws them to you! There are times a bull will slip in silent but it's more rare than common here.

As with most calling your best opportunity will be to work these elk when at their destination such as feeding, bedding, etc. areas, this way you have a captive audience for a length of time. Trying to call or use a setup while they are on the move is low odds for success!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[psp8ball]

Thanks for the replies! I'll have to study up on the slow play breeding sequence.

We kind of botched an opportunity this year on them. On our way in for an evening hunt, heading for the spot we were going to intercept them at, we bumped them. They weren't in a spot we expected them to be so we didn't think it was the herd. We set up and softly cow called a bit. Heard a few sticks breaking but never saw an elk. It was on our way out in the dark, after the elk no showed that evening, in nearly the exact same spot we bumped the elk on the way in that the bull ripped a bugle. They had been in the same spot the whole time! Our bumping them would have been the perfect opportunity to either try regathering or bugle aggressively because we were in so close. We just had it in our heads that these were just a handful of straggler elk.

Out of frustration on our way out after he bugled we set up and did a calling sequence in the pitch black, just to see if he was willing to play at night. Sure enough, he got fired up. Screaming at us. And came in to about 70 yards of where we were calling from, just like he was supposed to. Talk about frustrating.

 

[Spencer Lillywhite]

In the situation where you have the silent herd bull with his 6 cows, do you know approximately where they are bedded for the day? I'm assuming yes but you want to keep distance because you don't want to bump them in the heavy timber.

If you can get somewhat close, how would a calf call work? Even though the bull isn't responsive to bugles/cow calls, if you could get a cow to leave the group and look for the lost/distressed calf, would that bull follow her? It sounds like its late in the season but they haven't been bred yet so he might be pretty interested in getting that cow back in the group. Then you might be able to get a shot on him or he might be more responsive to a challenge because he's no longer "in his living room on his recliner" with his harem.

I'm assuming based on the fact that cows don't get heckled and called as much as bulls do that they might be a little easier to call in this situation, but I really don't know. I'm a beginner and my experience comes from what bits I've gathered about elk behavior/calling from the ElkNut app and heard on Corey/Phelps/Dirk/Paul podcasts/videos. I'm asking this more as a question to see if this might/might not work and why.

 

[[email protected]]

I’ve killed a couple bulls in very similar scenarios with stalking tactics over the years. The key is that you need good knowledge of the area he is working which will allow you to know where he is bedded. Wait until 2-3 pm after they’ve spent the day bedded and come in silently with the wind in your favor. Many times during the rut when I’ve done this the bull will get up and rake a tree or check cows before the others in the herd are up on their feet. This is your opportunity.


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[CarWrestler]

If he's hitting a wallow or water source midday while his cows are bedded, setting up there could be effective. Time is also a big factor. When the cows cycle into estrus, those satellite bulls are going to start cutting in and the herd bull will get a lot more aggressive. However, a 5pt satellite bull is better than no bull, so some cow calls on the edge of the herd might be a great ticket to eating elk rather than your tag next year. If you're running into this same problem every year in your area, mix up which week you hunt. Move up a week to when the bulls might still be creating their harems and/or there's less hunting pressure, or a week later when the estrus cycle is mixing things up.

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, those are conditioned elk....they have seen some serious hunt pressure....the rule rather than the exception in many case now.

I like Pauls strategy- create a scenario. I think the closer you are when doing that the better as they typically don't like to deviate much.

Another option; If you know their appx route, there is a chance you can call the cows to you on their way to bed...or when leaving....the bull will follow.

I think the key is to make sure you see them before they see you....as the cows will come in pretty quiet and so will the satellites. When calling; always assume there are animals scanning to find you.

There is a water source near where they bed...might be worth finding that.

..

 

[Still Hunter]

Most bulls have a favorite wallow. Try to find his wallow. If it is off the property you hunt then try to find his runways to and from the wallow