What would be your ultimate CO legal Muzzleloader?

[RaggedHunter]

Looking for recommendations for building your ultimate CO legal muzzleloader.

My old man has enough points to draw his limited CO muzzy elk tag next year and we want spend this year putting together a musket and getting it dialed in. We are familiar with some of the older hawken style muskets, and have hunted with them a few times, but for this hunt he wants something better. We would really like to be comfortable out to atleast 200 yards. I've seen where a lot of people are running the rear peep with the globe sight up front, that appears to be a really good sight setup for being able to reach out further, but curious to get some more input from some guys who have hunted with them. I read a lot about BH 209 also, is this really the way to go for powder?

Which muzzleloader is the best? Is there one that stands out above the rest when it comes to setting it up with open sights and CO legal bullets etc?

Really curious for recommendations on which specific Muzzleloader, bullets, powder, and sights you would all go with if you were building your ultimate CO legal musket.

 

[UtahJimmy]

What's your budget?

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[RaggedHunter]

What's your budget?

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Don't necessarily have a budget yet, trying to figure out what the best options are and decide from there what we need to spend to get what we are after.
I have looked at the arrowhead rifles, but not sure if it makes sense to spend that kind of money on a muzzleloader if you cant put a scope on them here in CO. Looking really hard at the Knight UL and Mountaineer.. Curious how those compare to like CVA or TC muzzleloaders.

 

[ENCORE]

 

[sabotloader]

I would like to suggest to you to take a hard look at a Knight Ultra-Lite

This is my Idaho legal hunter, but I have to use percussion caps, you get to use Shotgun 209 primers. That is one of many good things about the adaptability of Knight Bolt rifles..

I also installed a Williams Peep sight on the rifle and change the front sight to a Williams setup with a Fire Sight Hood. when you look down through the sights it gives the illusion that you are looking through a 1x scope.

I need to let you know that you do have to make some modifications to the and the stock to make the Williams work for you.

If you do not want to hassel with the modifications you can install a NECG -Weaver Style peep

The rifle is really accurate and will shoot most every thing you load down the barrel.

People that are better shooters than can tighten this up a bunch.

 

[Stalker69]

We can’t use sabot s here in CO either.

 

[ENCORE]

We can’t use sabot s here in CO either.

Fury bullets

 

[sabotloader]

We can’t use sabot s here in CO either.

Correct - I know I was just trying to show the accuracy ability of the rifle.

At least Colorado is way ahead of Idaho, we are required to use percussion caps and full bore lead bullets.

I do not have a great answer for an elk bullet for Colorado. I have not shot the Fury like that Encore suggested. I was not impressed with the testing results that a forum member on another forum showed.

A friend of mine in Oregon is using Hornady FPB's and really likes them. I am not sure if they are available anymore. Here in Idaho I use a Bull Shop .503 - 460 MtNex Lead conical - they work very well.

I guess the FPB is still available...

Hornady® FPB™ Muzzleloader Bullets - .50 Caliber Full Bore Bullets 300 & 350 Grain

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You would have to pull the red plastic tip from the bullet to be legal there, but that is easy enough.

PM - Ole Hunter here on this site - he has used them very successfully on elk.

 

[ENCORE]

80grs of BH209 with the 300gr Fury LT in those tests......

 

[txhunter581]

Fury LT bullets are full bore and sized to your barrel? If so they look intriguing

Sabotloader: Colorado removed the restriction on bullet length so you don’t have to remove the tip any more.

350 gr Hornady FPB bullets are good elk medicine! I have killed 4 elk with them. Just last week discovered that that company had bought up the remaining inventory of those bullets. $10 per package! I bought a bunch! Picture is on the last one we pulled from the skin on the far side of a big cow elk

 

[txhunter581]

As to the original questions DO NOT buy a T/C rifle with the QLA. Google QLA problems and you will find a bunch. T/C will not guarantee accuracy with conicals. Only sabots. I had an Omega and had to remove the QLA. I would go with Knight or CVA

 

[sabotloader]

Correct! 80 grains of BH should create about 1600 fps (according to a posted table) and the bullet was captured at 25 yards - so if you elk is 25 yards away It will work fine!

He also tested 60 grains of BH at 25 yards with a velocity of about 1400fps (according to a posted table)- the result there was a dented bullet

 

[ENCORE]

Fury LT bullets are full bore and sized to your barrel? If so they look intriguing

Yes, full bore bullets. I've shot and hunted with the Fury bullets myself and they just flat out work on game.
I shot the old 325gr Star Tips, now the 320gr Fury bullets from my UF and everything I shot with them were DRT.

Black powder muzzleloader

Black powder muzzleloader - Call Fury at (810) 404-2973 for repair in today!

www.furycustombullets.com

There's a lot to testing bullets and not every test method is correct. Even the jag you load your bullet with is now known to have possible effects on bullet expansion. Ballistics gel testing, the standard used by all manufacturers and law enforcement, provides different test results than water. Water is used to capture bullets for criminal investigation.

 

[sabotloader]

Fury LT bullets are full bore and sized to your barrel? If so they look intriguing

Sabotloader: Colorado removed the restriction on bullet length so you don’t have to remove the tip any more.

350 gr Hornady FPB bullets are good elk medicine! I have killed 4 elk with them. Just last week discovered that that company had bought up the remaining inventory of those bullets. $10 per package! I bought a bunch! Picture is on the last one we pulled from the skin on the far side of a big cow elk View attachment 189492View attachment 189493

So you can leave the tip on - that is good!

Those a very good pics.... and I assume you got that expansion beyond 25 yards. I was just somewhat disappointed at the velocity that is required to get the Fury to expand the way I think it should.

I know Ole Hunter in Oregon is really pleased with the FPB

 

[txhunter581]

That was with 95 gr of BH 209. Elk was at 80 yards.

I have killed them from 50-120 yards with the bullet/ load

Unlike powerbelts, they are a lead alloy but the hollow point with plastic tip seems to allow good expansion

 

[ENCORE]

Bullet photo....….

84/120grs BH209 at 107yds. Through the paper target, through the OSB backstop and into the berm.





Hunters, those using production rifles with production charges, have been using Fury bullets for the past couple years and IIRC, I've not read of a single case where a Fury bullet failed on game.
Fury bullets are also used in many custom SML rifles.

If you want a long range, powerful and accurate 50cal rifle because of a state's restrictions, the RUM (Remington Ultimate) with the Arrowhead breech plug will shoot the whole line of Fury bullets. The Fury ST2 bullets have more than enough energy to cleanly harvest to 400yds.

 

[sabotloader]

AWESOME!

Sure wish Idaho would got off the bump!

 

[sabotloader]

Bullet photo....….

84/120grs BH209 at 107yds. Through the paper target, through the OSB backstop and into the berm.



View attachment 189495

Hunters, those using production rifles with production charges, have been using Fury bullets for the past couple years and IIRC, I've not read of a single case where a Fury bullet failed on game.
Fury bullets are also used in many custom SML rifles.

If you want a long range, powerful and accurate 50cal rifle because of a state's restrictions, the RUM (Remington Ultimate) with the Arrowhead breech plug will shoot the whole line of Fury bullets. The Fury ST2 bullets have more than enough energy to cleanly harvest to 400yds.

Encore I agree - the bullet works well especially from a SML or a rifle like yours when you are shooting it at 2000 fps or greater - it is still well above 1400 fps at 100 so results should be good. But as you extend the range you will not have that velocity at say 200 yards.

Also not all people shoot 120 gr Vol loads from their ML's most are more comfortable in the 100 gr. Vol range.

 

[ENCORE]

Encore I agree - the bullet works well especially from a SML or a rifle like yours when you are shooting it at 2000 fps or greater - it is still well above 1400 fps at 100 so results should be good. But as you extend the range you will not have that velocity at say 200 yards.

Also not all people shoot 120 gr Vol loads from their ML's most are more comfortable in the 100 gr. Vol range.

The 50cal bullets are designed to be shot from 50cal productdion rifles and not SML rifles. The bullet in the photo above was shot from a 50cal, not my custom. As many of the Fury bullets as I've shot and tested for Dennis, I'd have no issue worrying about the bullets function at 200yds.
Example....Barnes claims that their T-EZ and TMZ bullets, rather 250gr or 290, need a minimum of 1,100fps to expand properly. I've proven that theory wrong for a couple decades.

Here's the deal...……… 95%+ of all problems with game shot, are all related to shot placement. It doesn't matter rather a bullet expands, or rather it pencils through like a round ball will, if that shot is in the proper spot you can kill an animal with a marble. Way to many hunters shoot AT something, instead of a specific SPOT on the animal. Shooting AT something gets more hunters in trouble than they can get into with their wives.

 

[txhunter581]

Bullet photo....….

84/120grs BH209 at 107yds. Through the paper target, through the OSB backstop and into the berm.



View attachment 189495

Hunters, those using production rifles with production charges, have been using Fury bullets for the past couple years and IIRC, I've not read of a single case where a Fury bullet failed on game.
Fury bullets are also used in many custom SML rifles.

If you want a long range, powerful and accurate 50cal rifle because of a state's restrictions, the RUM (Remington Ultimate) with the Arrowhead breech plug will shoot the whole line of Fury bullets. The Fury ST2 bullets have more than enough energy to cleanly harvest to 400yds.

Are you saying your load was 84 gr of BH 209 by weight/ 120 gr by volume?

If so ouch .

My elk loads with the FPB are 90-95 gr by volume. Works well for me at Colorado open sight ranges (for me out to 150 yards).

When I get to 100 gr (vol) or above it adversely affects my neck and because of that I start flinching. For those that can, power to you, but I am sticking with lower amounts of powder.

And I hear your argument about hit um where they live, and they will go down quick, but IF you can get expansion, you have that much more shock power. So if I use 90-95 gr (vol) BH209 and a 320 Fury, can I count on expansion of the bullet out to 200 yards?