2022 Ford Lightning

[eddielasvegas]

I am no expert at this by any means (after all, I'm a propeller head IT guy), but let me add a couple comments to think about:

1) What's the energy source to charge EV batteries? Best case is 60+% is from fossil fuels. Most places it's probably 85+%.

2) Batteries are inefficient compared to fossil fuels like gasoline. For example, if you expend 100 units of energy to get oil out of the ground and refine it, you'll get back about 90-95% of it when you burn the gas. Batteries, OTOH, will return about 30-50% (best case). Since EV batteries are charged using fossil fuels, you're burning ~200 units of energy to put 100 in a battery.


Eddie


P.S. To add to CorbLand's comment as he is right,. The problem is EV's are being forced on us whether we want them or not. ICE vehicles are being outlawed as are new gas stations.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

Who this truck is not for...
People who tow long distances.
People who live in rural areas.
People who drive long distances for outdoor entertainment (hunting, fishing, skiing, etc.)
People who drive across the country to hunt.
People who tow loads over 5000lbs often. (A half ton would not be my first choice regardless of the motor powering it).
It will probably be some time before you see a EV option for folks who drive a 3/4 or 1 ton truck and really use them for their intended purpose. Heck, that may never come.

The heaviest item I have to tow is the pontoon boat, and its 24 miles to the launch we typically use.
I hunt, fish, ski, dirt bike, camp, etc. within 100 miles of home. I am fortunate to live in an area that has all that close by, others are not. So the idea of having a truck I can do all that with, not fill up, less maintenance and potentially have a back up power source for my house sounds pretty darn tempting. Of course we will always have a gas vehicle around, but this truck is much more appealing than the Tesla or the Rivian.

 

[Wib]

The future is one thing, but this makes zero sense now. As others have said the infrastructure isn't there and won't be anytime soon. What really amazes me is the number of libs who actually believe if we go fully electric we won't need gas and oil anymore beyond making items like plastic. They think we just plug into the magic wall and we have power! Oil will be a major player for a very long time, but nat gas is the future in reality. For the foreseeable future which spans a long time.

 

[CorbLand]

The future is one thing, but this makes zero sense now. As others have said the infrastructure isn't there and won't be anytime soon. What really amazes me is the number of libs who actually believe if we go fully electric we won't need gas and oil anymore beyond making items like plastic. They think we just plug into the magic wall and we have power! Oil will be a major player for a very long time, but nat gas is the future in reality. For the foreseeable future which spans a long time.

There's also a lot of conservatives that think stupid shit too.

Edit to add. It also may not make sense now but generally, it takes something to get it started. Its not going to happen overnight. We didn't even transition to combustion engines in a day.

 

[CorbLand]

P.S. To add to CorbLand's comment as he is right,. The problem is EV's are being forced on us whether we want them or not. ICE vehicles are being outlawed as are new gas stations.

Do you have proof of this? I have never once heard of a gas station or internal combustion engine being banned.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I was just reading a article and it said the standard setup is good for up 230 miles. They will offer a extended range model which is rated up to 300 miles. The big drop in milage is when towing. Up to 50% drop in milage when towing heavy loads, 11000 lbs. The drop in range will vary depending on trailer Lbs. It will charge up to 80% in 40 mins. that will go up considerably to get to 100%. The last 20% goes slower to avoid over heating. As of right now I am not sold on E vehicles but I expect that to change when greater distance is reached.

 

[eddielasvegas]

Do you have proof of this? I have never once heard of a gas station or internal combustion engine being banned.

My lack of clarity was not meant to deceive. Here's what I was referencing about gas stations.

California City Bans New Gas Stations—Will Others Follow?

Petaluma, California's measure also stops existing stations from adding new gas pumps.

www.motortrend.com

A number of communities/states/countries have banned ICE vehicles in the future. Granted, it's 10-15 years away, but you can see how this will play out. At least I can.


Eddie

 

[jwelch1103]

Third US State Banning Combustion-Engined Car Sales​

Third US State Banning Combustion-Engined Car Sales

California made global headlines last September when it announced a bold and perhaps controversial plan to ban sales of new combustion-engine vehicles by 2035. Governor Gavin Newsom signed the executive order on the hood of a new Ford Mustang Mach-E. For decades, the Golden State has issued more...

carbuzz.com

It might seem to be in the distant future but it will be here before you know it.

 

[BeaverHunter]

Do you have proof of this? I have never once heard of a gas station or internal combustion engine being banned.

California governor signs executive order to ban gas-powered cars and trucks

This rule, if not halted by a court challenge by the oil and gas industry and the Trump administration, would make California the first U.S. state with a plan to phase them out completely.

www.google.com

 

[CorbLand]

My lack of clarity was not meant to deceive. Here's what I was referencing about gas stations.

California City Bans New Gas Stations—Will Others Follow?

Petaluma, California's measure also stops existing stations from adding new gas pumps.

www.motortrend.com

A number of communities/states/countries have banned ICE vehicles in the future. Granted, it's 10-15 years away, but you can see how this will play out. At least I can.


Eddie

And my comment back was genuinely looking for proof, not calling you out.

I was thinking more on a Federal level when you said what you did not State and had forgotten about California's ban. I doubt it will stand when someone finally challenges it in court along with it is doing what California is known for. Shipping the problem somewhere else and claiming they fixed everything. People will just buy gas powered vehicles from out of state.

 

[Fordguy]

If you look at the price trend for EV batteries over the past decade you will see a continuous decline, and improvements in battery function and capacity are expected to continue even as price continues to decline. This is the industry that I work in... Lol. The only thing that will bring the price back up is a drastic increase in demand, unless you count increase due to inflation via govt policy.
Additionally, electric vehicles typically have a much lower maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle. The battery cost ends up being a wash over all.
There are fast charge stations in the works but I don't know of any available to the public yet. They're not as fast as filling a gas tank, but 15-30 minutes (again depending on the vehicle) and energy cost to charge is less than the price of gas.

To address those who seem to think that EVs are less efficient than their internal combustion counterparts- fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml
Not to mention, there's no trucking fuel all over the nation to fill underground storage tanks at gas stations for an EV, so there's a savings on that end as well.
If the energy cost was greater to charge your EV batteries than a gasoline engine for the same number of miles it would cost more to charge your vehicle than it would to fill the gas tank- and this just isn't the case.

For those saying that there won't be an environmental impact or trying to minimize it- yes, a portion of the energy that charges your EV will come from fossil fuels, likely around 60 percent (varies by region). Carbon capture is much more effective at the power plant than it is on the tailpipe of every gasoline vehicle on the road. Just something to consider. I don't drive an EV myself, i haven't seen any that suit my needs...yet. That day is probably coming though.

I can see the benefits on both sides at the moment, and I'm neither pro nor con on the issue. Given the choice, I'd still be driving my 1979 F250. I like what I'm familiar with and what has proven itself to me...

 

[amassi]

Third US State Banning Combustion-Engined Car Sales​

Third US State Banning Combustion-Engined Car Sales

California made global headlines last September when it announced a bold and perhaps controversial plan to ban sales of new combustion-engine vehicles by 2035. Governor Gavin Newsom signed the executive order on the hood of a new Ford Mustang Mach-E. For decades, the Golden State has issued more...

carbuzz.com

It might seem to be in the distant future but it will be here before you know it.

A "ban" on NEW sales of ice in 2035 or 2050 depending on state. Purely political theater since none of those governors will be in office then, and used executive order not legislation to push their agenda just pandering for another term.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[amassi]

My lack of clarity was not meant to deceive. Here's what I was referencing about gas stations.

California City Bans New Gas Stations—Will Others Follow?

Petaluma, California's measure also stops existing stations from adding new gas pumps.

www.motortrend.com

A number of communities/states/countries have banned ICE vehicles in the future. Granted, it's 10-15 years away, but you can see how this will play out. At least I can.


Eddie

Ever been to Petaluma? Tiny town with 17 gas stations withing driving distance of another hundred stations. This is a response by the council seeking to rezone the little existing real estate to more profitable ventures

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[hibernation]

2) Batteries are inefficient compared to fossil fuels like gasoline. For example, if you expend 100 units of energy to get oil out of the ground and refine it, you'll get back about 90-95% of it when you burn the gas. Batteries, OTOH, will return about 30-50% (best case). Since EV batteries are charged using fossil fuels, you're burning ~200 units of energy to put 100 in a battery.

I'm no engineer but I don't think this is accurate - look at MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent), the metric that shows how far an electric car will travel on the equivalent amount of energy to one gallon of gasoline. It blows ICE cars out of the water, usually somewhere around 100MPGe for most moderately sized electrics. I think it's also really overstating the efficiency of burning gasoline, I had always thought it was more like 30-35% efficiency at best. Power plants are better at converting fuels to energy than a car's engine, so there is still a net gain in having your car powered by the grid instead of its own engine. Plus, pollutants are regulated and filtered better from a single point source than every single car on the road.

Another interesting point not mentioned yet is how power production and utility grids work. Utilities have to account for a massive spike in demand and production every afternoon/evening, then a huge drop overnight when everyone goes to bed. This is one of the biggest challenges with our grid - how do you increase production, but only for specific times? If most electric vehicles are charged at home overnight, they're taking advantage of a lot of wasted energy and flattening some of the demand curve. So if we add a certain wattage in demand from new electric cars, it's not a 1:1 increase in production.

Public Utilities: Will All These New Electric Cars Crash the Grid?

No

www.autoweek.com

 

[hibernation]

Additionally, electric vehicles typically have a much lower maintenance cost over the life of the vehicle. The battery cost ends up being a wash over all.

I've got a gas pickup for trips and an electric car for everything else. It's really hard to overstate the drop in maintenance cost with an electric. There's still tires, brakes, and suspension... and that's pretty much it. For now, I think that's the ideal setup for most of us and I don't see that changing for at least 10 years, but I'm really interested to see the changes as they happen. For fleet trucks, contractors, repair crews, the electric F-150 sounds like a much more viable option.

It all makes me wonder how gas engines were first received. There must have been similar issues - were people skeptical about being able to buy gasoline anywhere, as opposed to horse feed? Or concerned about this flammable liquid getting stored, transported, and handled?

 

[monsterbucks]

I’d be anxious to see how long it takes you to get it. Just saw today the the Ford truck plant is laying off workers and the Ky Speedway is parked full of new Ford PU’s

 

[eddielasvegas]

Ever been to Petaluma? Tiny town with 17 gas stations withing driving distance of another hundred stations. This is a response by the council seeking to rezone the little existing real estate to more profitable ventures

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Spent a week there one day.

No and the only reason I remember the town is because of the Polly Klaus (sp?) case.

The ball has to start somewhere to roll and how many stations it has is irrelevant. If it could not support 17, there would not be 17 thanks to the wonders of free enterprise.

I have no clue on the motives of the council and rezoning...the only thing I know is its CA.


Eddie

 

[eddielasvegas]

I'm no engineer but I don't think this is accurate - look at MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent), the metric that shows how far an electric car will travel on the equivalent amount of energy to one gallon of gasoline. It blows ICE cars out of the water, usually somewhere around 100MPGe for most moderately sized electrics. I think it's also really overstating the efficiency of burning gasoline, I had always thought it was more like 30-35% efficiency at best. Power plants are better at converting fuels to energy than a car's engine, so there is still a net gain in having your car powered by the grid instead of its own engine. Plus, pollutants are regulated and filtered better from a single point source than every single car on the road.

Another interesting point not mentioned yet is how power production and utility grids work. Utilities have to account for a massive spike in demand and production every afternoon/evening, then a huge drop overnight when everyone goes to bed. This is one of the biggest challenges with our grid - how do you increase production, but only for specific times? If most electric vehicles are charged at home overnight, they're taking advantage of a lot of wasted energy and flattening some of the demand curve. So if we add a certain wattage in demand from new electric cars, it's not a 1:1 increase in production.

Public Utilities: Will All These New Electric Cars Crash the Grid?

No

www.autoweek.com

You may be right (and I may be crazy), and the article I read online (so has to be gospel, right) explained this in detail. Foolishly, I did not save the link. And all my numbers are simply what my 60+ year old brain can recall.

Also and IIRC, hydrogen may the only fuel that has a net energy gain.

And another IIRC on MPGe.....the assumptions for MPGe are many and done by people (and gubment) who want EV to look like the bees knees.


Eddie

 

[540-Virginian]

Except the prius is a hybrid electric? And rumors are the 2022 Tundra will have a v6 hybrid electric engine and they wont have any v8 options anymore...change is a coming it seems.

I meant all electric, not hybrid. They haven't dived as deep into all electric like ford/chevy is trying to do to compete with tesla. Toyota and even a big tractor company (sorry I forget the name) is putting a lot of money into hydrogen.

 

[sasquatch]

Idk how people don’t see this is just one big money grab and business crippler. Tax payers are paying for these vehicles that they don’t use.

This is one big joke just like we have 10 years left to change or the world will be destroyed forever. This is a joke just as the weapons of mass destruction being held needed us to go to war for 20 years. This is one big joke just like if we didn’t shit down the whole economy we would all die from this 1% deadly virus.

People, we have to see the forest through the trees.


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