AM I THE ONLY ONE?

mlgc20

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The US gifted that statue to GB. It sits on soil from Virginia because he said he'd never set foot in England again. The point was, the framers of the constitution weren't treasonous to the US. So his baiting was non-sequitur.
I know. I wasn't disagreeing with the general point. Personally, I didn't even think about a statue of Washington in London, until I randomly saw it in Trafalgar Square on one of my visits over there.
 

String&stick

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Jan 16, 2018
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Why would you suggest they come down? Just curious.

I think if the statue is in a historical context. . . On a battle field, or historical site, sure statues of Confederate soldiers and generals are great. (Chickamunga battle field is amazing with lots of statues and info).

Idolised in city squares, monuments, etc, poor taste doesn't even begin to describe it. Lee as an example, abandoned his country for his state, in order to fight to preserve slavery and the plantation lifestyle. Killed US citizens in an effort to form a new country. They sought the help of foreign nations to defeat the United States and Lost. . . Of course statues were erected in the south because they idolised Lee and the "lost cause". Had Lincoln not been assassinated there is a good chance the south would have been occupied for 4 solid years to beat some of the way of thinking out of them.

Does Germany/Austria have a lot of Hitler statues painting him in a positive light??? (It's actually illegal to display nazi imagery)

Bad people doesn't get statues regardless of the good things they did in life, Hitler oversaw some amazing economic gains, medical advancements, and technological advancements. . . But no sane person disagrees that he was a piece of shit and deserved to die 10 times over!

I love history and love civil war history, but I see no reason to have statues memorializing traitors, especially those who led a faction in war against the United States.


(As a freedom loving individual, I believe you are free to disagree, but public opinion will win out on if the statues stay or go)
 

miggy

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Jun 21, 2021
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I mean, there aren't any Robert E Lee statues in my town, but if there were, I wouldn't mind if they came down. Aaron should heed his own lyrics and if he doesn't like it, there's the fu*king door.
How about ripping down statues of Sir Francis Drake, Francis Scott Key, Junipero Serra, or Ulysses S Grant?
 

Reburn

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We put statues up to honor men. Should we honor someone that was indicted for treason? Someone who lost a war whose key issue was the right to own people? Removing the statue doesn't change history, it just changes what we show the world we value and who we honor.

And I'm just arguing R. E Lee here, I'm not agreeing with all of the statues that have been removed, for whatever reason.

tell us how you feel about this one.

 

hflier

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I mean, there aren't any Robert E Lee statues in my town, but if there were, I wouldn't mind if they came down. Aaron should heed his own lyrics and if he doesn't like it, there's the fu*king door.

If you erase the past you will repeat it. It isn’t what the statue is, it is a recording of history. If you erase the history, the corrupt can change the lessons that came out of it.

I will also add if you are a liberal then you really do not care much about hunting and really should move onto something more in line with your beliefs. If you think you can be a liberal and have hunting preserved for the future generations, then you are not capable of critical thinking. Just look at what is going on in Oregon, the liberal meca. They are working in outlawing hunting.

Ron


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Praxeus

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Quick google search indicated that Aaron Lewis is not a veteran. His lyrics must be about a metaphorical fight? Not clear to me what he is talking about really. Maybe my search results were incorrect.
edited for spelling.


Nobody said he was a vet (Aaron Lewis). Do you have to be a vet to love the red, white and blue? You guys are ridiculous


And to the guys on here that are so nervous that your difference of opinion is going to be challenged, not so. Just love this country, be willing to protect it and its values or leave. Its disingenuous to be somewhere and be against its values. Go somewhere where you do agree with the values. Its called integrity.
 
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Poser

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If you erase the past you will repeat it. It isn’t what the statue is, it is a recording of history. If you erase the history, the corrupt can change the lessons that came out of it.

I will also add if you are a liberal then you really do not care much about hunting and really should move onto something more in line with your beliefs. If you think you can be a liberal and have hunting preserved for the future generations, then you are not capable of critical thinking. Just look at what is going on in Oregon, the liberal meca. They are working in outlawing hunting.

Ron


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These statues aren’t being “erased”, they are being relocated. If we were selling off National Battlefields, cancelling college classes on Civil War history, burning Shelby Foote books etc, this argument might have a leg to stand on. Removing statues of Confederate officers from town squares? I don’t know see how that constitutes “erasing” history.

For context, I grew up in the rural South, very much in the direct shadow of Shiloh battlefield. I’ve been to Confederate row in Richmond. I went to a University where the ROTC building was named for a confederate officer (that’s a bit weird), taught at another college with a confederate inspired mascot and where at least one fraternity on campus took their annual yearbook photos wearing Confederate uniforms and built a fort around their frat house dubbing it “Andersonville” during Greek Week. I’ve heard all of the arguments, the stories, the propaganda, the romanticization my whole life. At some point, it’s time to let it go and move on. It was 4 years of what will soon be pushing 200 years ago. Let it go and move on. Military historians will always study the strategies of Nathan Bedford Forrest, no one who is interested in the man will forget him because his statue was removed from a majority Black city that had very little involvement in the Civil War. National Battlefields will still be there. Everything that was documented during the war will continue to be preserved.

"I think it wiser," the retired Robert E Lee wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, "…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”
 
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Praxeus

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These statues aren’t being “erased”, they are being relocated. If we were selling off National Battlefields, cancelling college classes on Civil War history, burning Shelby Foote books etc, this argument might have a leg to stand on. Removing statues of Confederate officers from town squares? I don’t know see how that constitutes “erasing” history.

For context, I grew up in the rural South, very much in the direct shadow of Shiloh battlefield. I’ve been to Confederate row in Richmond. I went to a University where the ROTC building was named for a confederate officer (that’s a bit weird), taught at another college with a confederate inspired mascot and where at least one fraternity on campus took their annual yearbook photos wearing Confederate uniforms and built a fort around their frat house dubbing it “Andersonville” during Greek Week. I’ve heard all of the arguments, the stories, the propaganda, the romanticization my whole life. At some point, it’s time to let it go and move on. It was 4 years of what will soon be pushing 200 years ago. Let it go and move on. Military historians will always study the strategies of Nathan Bedford Forrest, no one who is interested in the man will forget him because his statue was removed from a majority Black city that had very little involvement in the Civil War. National Battlefields will still be there. Everything that was documented during the war will continue to be preserved.

"I think it wiser," the retired Robert E Lee wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, "…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”
Poser.....great reply. One that introduces common sense and precedent into this.Thanks-
 

Q child

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Nobody said he was a vet (Aaron Lewis). Do you have to be a vet to love the red, white and blue? You guys are ridiculous
Right. I'm saying he is not a veteran based on the brief research I did. It kinda seemed like he was based on his lyrics. Like when he asks "am I the only one willing to bleed or take a bullet for being free?"
Of course one does not need to be a veteran to love America. I am not a veteran and I love America.
Having learned that you are a veteran from this thread, I thank you for your service.
 

MuleyFever

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I will also add if you are a liberal then you really do not care much about hunting and really should move onto something more in line with your beliefs. If you think you can be a liberal and have hunting preserved for the future generations, then you are not capable of critical thinking.
Interesting view. What exactly is your definition of someone who is a liberal?
 

Mike7

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As a veteran, it should have been explained to you that you were fighting for every American and their individual rights, including their right to disagree with you.
All of the veterans that I know and have talked to extensively, fought not for every American and certainly not for any politician, but rather for their brothers in arms, their family, and for the ideals described in the Bill of Rights and Constitution that are represented by the flag.

So you (you in the general sense) can burn a flag all you want, but don't ever burn or steal my flag. And I have the right to think you are an ignorant idiot, if it is just your own flag or for instance the NFLs flag that you burn or disrespect.

It's funny. When I take those political quizzes, I end up on the libertarian left, but today I could only be described as far right by the media and elites.

The problem as I see it is not with the disagreement, the problem is with the regressive authoritarian left not being happy with just their opinion until everyone else also has their opinion, and until they also force compliance through the use of the state/govt as a cudgel.
 

Newtosavage

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All of the veterans that I know and have talked to extensively, fought not for every American and certainly not for any politician, but rather for their brothers in arms, their family, and for the ideals described in the Bill of Rights and Constitution that are represented by the flag.

So you (you in the general sense) can burn a flag all you want, but don't ever burn or steal my flag. And I have the right to think you are an ignorant idiot, if it is just your own flag or for instance the NFLs flag that you burn or disrespect.

It's funny. When I take those political quizzes, I end up on the libertarian left, but today I could only be described as far right by the media and elites.

The problem as I see it is not with the disagreement, the problem is with the regressive authoritarian left not being happy with just their opinion until everyone else also has their opinion, and until they also force compliance through the use of the state/govt as a cudgel.
#1 - you just agreed with me

#2 - news flash - extremists on BOTH sides are doing this exact thing.
 

Btaylor

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These statues aren’t being “erased”, they are being relocated. If we were selling off National Battlefields, cancelling college classes on Civil War history, burning Shelby Foote books etc, this argument might have a leg to stand on. Removing statues of Confederate officers from town squares? I don’t know see how that constitutes “erasing” history.

For context, I grew up in the rural South, very much in the direct shadow of Shiloh battlefield. I’ve been to Confederate row in Richmond. I went to a University where the ROTC building was named for a confederate officer (that’s a bit weird), taught at another college with a confederate inspired mascot and where at least one fraternity on campus took their annual yearbook photos wearing Confederate uniforms and built a fort around their frat house dubbing it “Andersonville” during Greek Week. I’ve heard all of the arguments, the stories, the propaganda, the romanticization my whole life. At some point, it’s time to let it go and move on. It was 4 years of what will soon be pushing 200 years ago. Let it go and move on. Military historians will always study the strategies of Nathan Bedford Forrest, no one who is interested in the man will forget him because his statue was removed from a majority Black city that had very little involvement in the Civil War. National Battlefields will still be there. Everything that was documented during the war will continue to be preserved.

"I think it wiser," the retired Robert E Lee wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, "…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”
Should not the "Let it go and move on" principle apply to all parties to the argument?
 

Poser

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Should not the "Let it go and move on" principle apply to all parties to the argument?

That’s a valid and fair point. But again, people aren’t calling for the removal of monuments and statues in National Parks and battlefields. What Emerges from the conversation is more of a question of, in the year 2021, is a city such as New Orleans really so defined by and loyal to the cause of the Confederacy that they need an 80 foot tall statue of Robert E. Lee, a man who never wanted statues of monuments to begin with, and Jefferson Davis, a historical lackey at best, in and near the city center as some type of mascot of ideals and inspiration. The very idea of “letting go and moving on” often is consummated with some kind of ritual, celebration or event. And that’s where your argument turns to one of sheer convenience because you are essentially saying, “if I have to give up on the idea of New Orleans having a 80 foot statue of Robert E Lee, then You have to give up on the idea of removing that same statue”, in which case you are calling that a compromise, but you are still getting what you want and there is a very real implication of power in that.

For historical context, New Orleans was surrendered to the Union exactly 1 year into the war. For 1 year of New Orleans history, Lee was the general and Davis was the president. Of all of the history, people, ideals, principles, & stories, confederate statues are what we will choose as our symbolic mascots of history and part of how we will represent the identity of our city to the rest of the world?

Sure, there is subtly, nuance and duality in Southern culture, but an 80 foot statue in the city center (or for that matter, a ROTC building named for a Confederate General) are hardly subtle, hardly nuanced. Duality might be argued up until a certain point in history, but seems we have moved well past that point.
 
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Praxeus

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Poser- The real issue is not the historical basis for the statues but rather the political revisions that are attempting to reinterpret history and in extreme cases seek social reparations. This is ONLY happening now due to George Floyd and societal extremism. BLM, Antifa and every radical voice from the left has worked to change the historical record and our understanding of it. Add CRT and now you have a media shaped mess.

Regardless of your political views this IS what is happening. It is unpatriotic and attempting to frame this country as evil, extremely biased and inherently prejudice.

I never knew I was prejudiced until someone coined the phrase "white-privilege". Its insanity. Ive never been prejudiced and dont plan on becoming prejudiced. Again- obviously our nation has a long ways to go, but its obvious that we have come a long ways since the Civil War. Its anarchy....masked as social justice. Think Ill go play this song again.....I can't be the only one.
 

Btaylor

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That’s a valid and fair point. But again, people aren’t calling for the removal of monuments and statues in National Parks and battlefields. What Emerges from the conversation is more of a question of, in the year 2021, is a city such as New Orleans really so defined by and loyal to the cause of the Confederacy that they need an 80 foot tall statue of Robert E. Lee, a man who never wanted statues of monuments to begin with, and Jefferson Davis, a historical lackey at best, in and near the city center as some type of mascot of ideals and inspiration. The very idea of “letting go and moving on” often is consummated with some kind of ritual, celebration or event. And that’s where your argument turns to one of sheer convenience because you are essentially saying, “if I have to give up on the idea of New Orleans having a 80 foot statue of Robert E Lee, then You have to give up on the idea of removing that same statue”, in which case you are calling that a compromise, but you are still getting what you want and there is a very real implication of power in that.

For historical context, New Orleans was surrendered to the Union exactly 1 year into the war. For 1 year of New Orleans history, Lee was the general and Davis was the president. Of all of the history, people, ideals, principles, & stories, confederate statues are what we will choose as our symbolic mascots of history and part of how we will represent the identity of our city to the rest of the world?

Sure, there is subtly, nuance and duality in Southern culture, but an 80 foot statue in the city center (or for that matter, a ROTC building named for a Confederate General) are hardly subtle, hardly nuanced. Duality might be argued up until a certain point in history, but seems we have moved well past that point.
I dont really disagree with anything in your post. However, that does not address the real issues at play today. Blaming ones plight today on symbolism of 200 year old history is just as logical as marching to defund the police while ignoring source of crime and violence that brought the police into the community in the first place. This is about spite and deflection of responsibility, plain and simple.
 

bushangler

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As a veteran of two wars and four combat deployments I love the song! It echos many of my thoughts and feelings.

I still consider myself a Democrat although the party has left me behind with their recent sharp left turn. The first republican President I voted for was Trump. I am very left leaning socially and more fiscally moderate.

I love freedom, freedom is what makes our country what it is. The problem with our country is that people think their freedoms are worth more than others. Everyone in this country has the right to their opinions and beliefs and has the right to express them. If someone wants to burn our flag have at it, you touch the flag in my yard and I will burn you. If you want to protest in the streets have at it but the second you damage someone’s property or property of the governments you should be punished.

We shouldn’t take down statues because it offends someone, those statues are there as reminders of what we once were, if we erase history we are bound to repeat it.


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HUNT.HARD.82

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As a veteran of two wars and four combat deployments I love the song! It echos many of my thoughts and feelings.

I still consider myself a Democrat although the party has left me behind with their recent sharp left turn. The first republican President I voted for was Trump. I am very left leaning socially and more fiscally moderate.

I love freedom, freedom is what makes our country what it is. The problem with our country is that people think they’re freedom is worth more than others. Everyone in this country has the right to their opinions and beliefs. If someone wants to burn our flag have at it, you touch the flag in my yard and I will burn you. If you want to protest in the streets have at it but the second you damage someone’s property or property of the governments you should be punished.

We shouldn’t take down statues because it offends someone, those statues are there as reminders of what we once were, if we erase history we are bound to repeat it.


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Very well said!! and thanks you for your service.
 
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