Another Fierce Firearms Issue

[SDHNTR]

the list of junk in the industry is so long it's just way easier to list the handful of things that actually work most of the time.

Yeah very true, but why is that? Why do we as a group tolerate junk so much?

 

[wind gypsy]

Isn’t that what Leupy has done for many years with their CDS? Ignorance on top of a junk product. And people still buy them in droves! Marketing is powerful stuff!

It is but a scope isn't a $4k+ "1000 yards out of the box" super premium long range 1/2 MOA "proofed system" that people think they are buying.

 

[SDHNTR]

It is but a scope isn't a $4k+ "1000 yards out of the box" super premium long range "proofed system" that people think they are buying.

True, it’s worse. People think they can spin that magical CDS dial onto their VX3 atop their Wally World special and grab a green and yellow box and go whackin at 1000!

 

[amassi]

Yeah very true, but why is that? Why do we as a group tolerate junk so much?

Junk is relatively effective and falls with it the margin of error for most hunters.

I killed piles and piles of big game and varmints with rifles from weatherby and Remington(had 2 slam fire Remingtons) scopes exclusively from leupold, Talley and leupold ultralight rings and all manner of bullets from power points/corelokts up to bonded bullets like accubonds and sciroccos
I was firmly in the non match hunting bullet

Had I not found this website and started to look more objectively at my gear I’d still be happily blazing away, rezeroing scopes, chasing gremlins in the system.

This group on rokslide is likely less than 5% of the total market


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[wind gypsy]

RE Tolerating junk - the majority of hunters seemingly tolerate worse than Leupold.

I was perfectly content killing whitetails with a $325 walmart m700 ADL 270 topped with a $150 nikon prostaff and shooting whatever 130 grain fed blue box or winchester soft points they had at the rural gas station. Within 150 yards it never let me down.

 

[Softtail103]

Yeah very true, but why is that? Why do we as a group tolerate junk so much

It is but a scope isn't a $4k+ "1000 yards out of the box" super premium long range 1/2 MOA "proofed system" that people think they are buying.

So same feelings about Gunwerks $13k setup? They are the ones who started this craze. “1000 yards out of the box” was their advertising campaign slogan. I see everyone has an option about this. Do you think the developers at Leupold are sitting around wondering what critics think? They are making millions off of their little turrets and taking it to the bank. As for Fierce and Gunwerks they could care less if you can shoot that far. They sold you a gun that can accurately shoot that far, then use the reason for your poor performance is that you are not capable of shooting their rifles that far. The fact is that less that 5% of shooter can shoot .5 MOA at 100 yards let alone 1000 yards. Once again its the Indian not the Arrow!

 

[atmat]

As for Fierce and Gunwerks they could care less if you can shoot that far. They sold you a gun that can accurately shoot that far

Did you read the thread? Fierce is a terrible company/platform of rifles as of recent.

 

[NSI]

In defense of Gunwerks, they have theorized a system (shoot-to range), then built optics and training around that system. It's a dumb system, but they have a point of view and that's respectable. They also build fine rifles at exorbitant prices. Fierce build a crapshoot at slightly less exorbitant prices.

From what I've seen of Gunwerks hunt videos taken directly following training evolutions, something in the system is broken. Maybe it's the training, maybe it's the ballistic approach, maybe it's the philosophy. If GW is failing to execute, it's no surprise a far inferior approach and team at Fierce are.

-J

 

[Softtail103]

Did you read the thread? Fierce is a terrible company/platform of rifles as of recent.

Im now suffering with a Utah built Fierce rifle. Absolutely junk. Fierce‘s made in Canada rifles are excellent shooters. Made in Utah are junk. Are any of the production rifles top shelf? As for Fierce, google John Mogle owner of Fierce and Todd Christensen ”Christensen Arms” look up what they were arrested for. That will put you over the top.

 

[SDHNTR]

So same feelings about Gunwerks $13k setup? They are the ones who started this craze. “1000 yards out of the box” was their advertising campaign slogan. I see everyone has an option about this. Do you think the developers at Leupold are sitting around wondering what critics think? They are making millions off of their little turrets and taking it to the bank. As for Fierce and Gunwerks they could care less if you can shoot that far. They sold you a gun that can accurately shoot that far, then use the reason for your poor performance is that you are not capable of shooting their rifles that far. The fact is that less that 5% of shooter can shoot .5 MOA at 100 yards let alone 1000 yards. Once again its the Indian not the Arrow!

Difference isGunwerks actually makes a quality product. But yeah, I agree with you on their marketing. Always has made me want to puke a little.

 

[SDHNTR]

Im now suffering with an Utah built Fierce rifle. Absolutely junk. Fierce‘s made in Canada rifles are excellent shooters. Made in Utah are junk. Are any of the production rifles top shelf? As for Fierce, google John Mogle owner of Fierce and Todd Christensen ”Christensen Arms” look up what they were arrested for. That will put you over the top.

Please post a link!

 

[Softtail103]

Please post a link!

Christensen's Arms Owner Convicted of POACHING | Mule Deer

finally justice served (Matthew Troy Christensen) owner of Christensen Arms got his past due justice. He was convicted for Poaching in Central Utah, convicted of possession of controlled substance and convicted of joy riding. Bad thing the head was never recovered on the deer to determine if it...

www.monstermuleys.info

 

[Softtail103]

This guy does not even mention Troy Christensen is his comments. They were both in the truck.

Christensen Arms?

I have a chance to get a Christensen Arms 300 Win Mag. I do not know anyone personally that owns one. Does anyone here have any experience with them? Good? Bad? Indifferent? I have a 30-378 Weatherby, but it weighs a freaking ton. Would this be a worthy replacement? Please let me know...

rokslide.com

 

[rileybassman]

Im now suffering with a Utah built Fierce rifle. Absolutely junk. Fierce‘s made in Canada rifles are excellent shooters. Made in Utah are junk. Are any of the production rifles top shelf? As for Fierce, google John Mogle owner of Fierce and Todd Christensen ”Christensen Arms” look up what they were arrested for. That will put you over the top.

I don't think Todd is the owner... Roland was the founder/owner and I think his son Jason runs the shop now/is CEO - I might be wrong but that was my understanding. Not excusing what Todd did... but to flame a company for what one of the owner's sons did seems a little harsh.


Edit to add - didn't see that John was once the CEO of CA. Either way, he's not there now.

 

[wind gypsy]

So same feelings about Gunwerks $13k setup? They are the ones who started this craze. “1000 yards out of the box” was their advertising campaign slogan. I see everyone has an option about this. Do you think the developers at Leupold are sitting around wondering what critics think? They are making millions off of their little turrets and taking it to the bank. As for Fierce and Gunwerks they could care less if you can shoot that far. They sold you a gun that can accurately shoot that far, then use the reason for your poor performance is that you are not capable of shooting their rifles that far. The fact is that less that 5% of shooter can shoot .5 MOA at 100 yards let alone 1000 yards. Once again its the Indian not the Arrow!

Yes I feel the same about gunwerks.

"a gun that can accurately shoot that far" and "capable of shooting rifles that far" are funny concepts. If a guy can shoot a tight group at 100 yards there is little doubt they can shoot a tight group at 1000 yards. The difference comes to knowing the external factors that impact hitting stuff at a long range and hitting a target with your first shot or spotting first shot error and making applicable adjustments. The only people who would pay Fierce to put a custom turret on a rifle for a factory ammo load are people who don't understand these things or in your words, "people not capable of shooting their rifles that far".

When some sucker who paid fierce $500 for a custom turret is sailing bullets over a target because it was calibrated (pretending fierce actually chronos to calibrate) on a fresh barrel that hasn't sped up and the new lot of the same factory ammo is 80 FPS faster is that a poor shooter performance issue or a poor product issue? I say both.

 

[SDHNTR]

Yes I feel the same about gunwerks.

"a gun that can accurately shoot that far" and "capable of shooting rifles that far" are funny concepts. If a guy can shoot a tight group at 100 yards there is little doubt they can shoot a tight group at 1000 yards. The difference comes to knowing the external factors that impact hitting stuff at a long range and hitting a target with your first shot or spotting first shot error and making applicable adjustments. The only people who would pay Fierce to put a custom turret on a rifle for a factory ammo load are people who don't understand these things or in your words, "people not capable of shooting their rifles that far".

When some sucker who paid fierce $500 for a custom turret is sailing bullets over a target because it was calibrated (pretending fierce actually chronos to calibrate) on a fresh barrel that hasn't sped up and the new lot of the same factory ammo is 80 FPS faster is that a poor shooter performance issue or a poor product issue? I say both.

Haha. I just said essentially the same thing about CDS turrets on a thread on 24hrcampfire and got told I was a self righteous prick.

 

[Softtail103]

I don't think Todd is the owner... Roland was the founder/owner and I think his son Jason runs the shop now/is CEO - I might be wrong but that was my understanding. Not excusing what Todd did... but to flame a company for what one of the owner's sons did seems a little harsh.


Edit to add - didn't see that John was once the CEO of CA. Either way, he's not there now.

John was VP until they were arrested. He was fired and TC went back to work. Now John has a hunting show. Form your own opinion on that. Neither one should be involved in the hunting industry.

 

[SDHNTR]

What’s the readers digest version?

 

[sneaky]

The fact that they sell a custom turret for "optimal factory ammo" for their "guaranteed half MOA" rifles is a sign that they are selling ignorance. What happens when the barrel speeds up 80 FPS after its broke in or when a lot of factory ammo is 80 FPS faster or slower than another? To take $ for that "service" and not even provide it is worse.

But.. Backfire on youtube says the reaper is the ideal bolt gun.

On paper and in the hand, they have some pretty dang cool rifles. It's too bad the QC, marketing, and people behind the brand are shitty.

Backfire... what a tool lol. Of course he would shill for a Utah company.

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[grfox92]

Junk is relatively effective and falls with it the margin of error for most hunters.

I killed piles and piles of big game and varmints with rifles from weatherby and Remington(had 2 slam fire Remingtons) scopes exclusively from leupold, Talley and leupold ultralight rings and all manner of bullets from power points/corelokts up to bonded bullets like accubonds and sciroccos
I was firmly in the non match hunting bullet

Had I not found this website and started to look more objectively at my gear I’d still be happily blazing away, rezeroing scopes, chasing gremlins in the system.

This group on rokslide is likely less than 5% of the total market


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Great post. I think you are right. I would say 90+ % of hunting rifles purchased in the last 5 years have been Ruger Americans and Savage Axis.

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