Bear Attacks Hunter & Guide Sep '18 Story

[JohnnyB]

It would have to be. What would OSHA do? Probably fine the outfitter into bancruptsy and then some. I'd have thought that the President's nurtured the hell out of OSHA and for good reason.

Yes, it was sarcasm. I regret adding it already because the focus for me is that five children are fatherless and another mans life is ruined (regardless of fault).

There will be plenty of chances to cast aspersions on the bureaucracy we have allowed to permeate our lives.

 

[Billinsd]

Do you actually think a hunting guide goes to grizzly attack school!? He is the same person as the client he was guiding, except of his knowledge of the country and how to elk hunt. That client booked a hunt in GRIZZLY country. HE knew what he was getting into and what possibilities were there. I will not go into much more on this issue, but I dont care who you are, or where you are from, it takes a certain type of person to run, then get on a horse and keep running, completely away from a dying man.

The guide obviously has more training than typical hunters. I'd imagine the guide had at least some informal training about Grizzly Bears. The guide's experience and training makes him a professional. I hunted within a hundred mIles or of this area when I was 17 and my brother was 15 with my dad. We were complete greenhorns and completely entrusted our lives with the guide. It's frustrating to see people judge the client when know one except the guide, the client and the bears knew what happended. When a person is scared chitless, there are 3 options available, fight, flight, or freeze. We as humans are hardwired this way. The client probably didn't really think, he probably

Do you actually think a hunting guide goes to grizzly attack school!? He is the same person as the client he was guiding, except of his knowledge of the country and how to elk hunt. That client booked a hunt in GRIZZLY country. HE knew what he was getting into and what possibilities were there. I will not go into much more on this issue, but I dont care who you are, or where you are from, it takes a certain type of person to run, then get on a horse and keep running, completely away from a dying man.

I'll wager the guide has had more training, at least informal, than the client about grizzlies. Humans are hardwired for three possible responses to something like this. Fight. Flight, or freeze. The client chose flight. He probaby didn't think about it, he just reacted. It doesn't look to me that he couldn't have done anything. Maybe he is a coward, maybe not. We will never know. Real crappy thing. Prayers to guide his family and client and his family. Sometimes bad things happen and it's know one's fault. Very, very tragic!!!

 

[idahohikker]

I agree that the client was a total POS all the way through. Sad, sad deal.

 

[dieselchessy]

If the client did the same and when the chopper arrived they found the guide tore up and barely alive, and saved him, the client would be a hero for doing the right thing.

That mortality report was strange. They count 5 transplanted bears as “mortalities”. And they moved one young male to Washington. Why? We don’t want any more Brown bears.

 

[Rob5589]

Brutal way to go

RIP

 

[Billinsd]

In my line of work we have what is called confined-space entry - for going inside tanks, pipes, and such - the main danger is "swamp gas". It requires 3 guys - 1 goes in, 1 watches, 1 is there to rescue. If guy the guy who goes in first drops/passes out/etc, the watcher does not enter, he calls for the rescue guy. Because if the watcher were to rush in, he'd die too and no-one would know to go rescue them. If you were in a confined space and went down, I'm not gonna die to get you out cause that solves nothing - I can do more by calling for help than I can dying from the gas that killed you.t.

I'm a civil engineer and specialize in water and sewer. I used to do a lot of permit required confined space entries. I'm going for a refresher in a couple weeks. I learned in my training that the majority of deaths resulting from hazardous confined entries is from would be rescuers. 60% of deaths in confined spaces are would be rescuers. Bill

 

[Beendare]

Wow, who knew 'Swamp Gas' and grizzlies had so much in common? /grin

Guys are quick to defend the clients running away saying, "What could he do?"

Well there was A LOT he could have done beforehand to be prepared.......

1) like be vigilant and spot a bear before its too late to do anything.

2) Actually be holding his bear spray in his hand

3) Ask the guide about pistol...and admit he had never shot one.

Since he didn't do ANY of those things....and yeah, this crossbow guy was literally helpless in the case of an emergency.

We arm chair QB'd this thing already in a long thread. But its worth noting above- is this the kind of Monty Python-ish client you want to be?


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[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I am not going to cast any condemnation on the client. It is apparent that he was not mentally prepared for what could have happened. The term for that is a liability as opposed to an asset. I like to think I would have stayed and tried to help the guide but until I'm in that situation I won't blame him for not doing so. After he threw the gun what was he supposed to do? Fight two bears with his fists? Would it be better to have two dead men on the hill knowing one died valiantly or have one dead and a coward who saw his opportunity to live?

I carry a pistol quite a bit on my day to day and always have a round in the chamber. Modern holsters make it damn near impossible to have an accidental discharge and the Glock has a proven track record of being safe.

If I'm with a group on a hunting trip I am 100% sure everyone on the trip knows how to operate my firearms. My brother in law who doesn't hunt or shoot accompanied us on a trip and we quizzed him on the function of each of the rifles and the lone hand gun prior to leaving the truck.

It sounds like there were things that could have and should have been done differently but at the end of the day it is a dangerous place to be and accidents happen. It's unfortunate this happened the way it did but I'm sure it will happen again and again.

 

[fatlander]

Hind sight always will be 20-20. The fact of the matter is, one guy died and another narrowly escaped what would be almost certain death. There isn’t a thing anyone can do to bring the guide back that lost his life, but everyone can learn something.

Be prepared, be aware, and be prepared. The client is the one that has to live with whatever happened on that mountain. Whatever he did or didn’t do will be between him and our maker.

The client didn’t know how to get a round in the chamber of a glock. . . Do you really want him pulling down on a bear that’s mauling you in that situation? The likelyhood of him shooting you is greater than the hitting the melon sized kill spot of the bear. If he didn’t know how to rack the glock before the trip, a 5 minute tutorial isn’t going to help one bit.

He should have had his bear spray readily deployable and he didn’t. It may not have mattered one way or the other. But what anyone can learn from this is to not leave yourself unprotected, especially while working up a day old dead elk in grizzly country.


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[full choke]

Wow, who knew 'Swamp Gas' and grizzlies had so much in common? /grin

Guys are quick to defend the clients running away saying, "What could he do?"

Well there was A LOT he could have done beforehand to be prepared.......

1) like be vigilant and spot a bear before its too late to do anything.

2) Actually be holding his bear spray in his hand

3) Ask the guide about pistol...and admit he had never shot one.

Since he didn't do ANY of those things....and yeah, this crossbow guy was literally helpless in the case of an emergency.

We arm chair QB'd this thing already in a long thread. But its worth noting above- is this the kind of Monty Python-ish client you want to be?


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Maybe the outfitter should have vetted their clients before hand?
Maybe the outfitter should have briefed/trained their clients before taking them into the Wilderness?
Isn't that EXACTLY why the state of Wyoming does not allow non-residents to hunt in the Wilderness without Outfitter representation?

I have no dog in the fight.
Sad situation.
But- jumping on the client for his actions/reactions seems to be silly. Obviously he wasn't prepared for this type of encounter- maybe not even been prepared for this hunt in general? But- the outfitter took his money, and put him in that exact spot- maybe they should hold some of the responsibility for the outcome?

 

[Blinginpse]

People get caught up in killing the elk and all that. That's always great but I wouldn't be going into bear country without knowledge of bears and knowing what to do. By not being aware or having a idea of what way/or how to react is only Endangering yourself the guide and whomever else may be around you too. It's Foolishness to not be aware of the possibilities and not have your own initiative to want to be up to speed on what could happen and how to react before you even go on the hunt. Everyone wants to be in shape and shoot 100 yards but how time does people take in looking up bear habits and protecting yourself if you meet face to face. There is common sense precautions you can take and do and that dude didn't even do that

 

[Kevin Dill]

I've hunted in the NWT 4 times, BC x 1 and YK x 1....all guided as is mandatory for a nonresident. All the hunts were in serious grizzly country and we saw many of them. On every hunt my guide(s) carried a rifle, but no handgun or sidearm and nobody carried bear spray. Being a bowhunter (in Canada) I could not carry a handgun. None of the outfits used or carried spray, and none of them recommended it. On top of that, not one of those 6 guides ever spent a moment going over the use of their rifle with me. The basic universal answer was "don't worry; just stay observant and let me do my job". My point is that clients are LIKELY to be unprepared and under-armed to contend with a bear attack. They are encouraged to default and rely on their guide in a crisis. Guides are always telling clients "One of my jobs is to keep you safe".

I'm not defending the client. I'm offering examples of the reality that goes with being a client in bear country. There's no point trying to get inside this client's mind during the attack. It does seem that he tried to help, and did sustain a (minor) injury when the bear went after him. Did he believe he had any or no ability to engage the attacking bear? I'm not even sure I could replay my thoughts during a rapid and chaotic attack. I wish the client could have done something to save the guide. When faced with a fight-or-flight circumstance, the decision isn't debated or calculated. It's instantaneous, and the need to live typically determines the choice.

 

[Fatcamp]

What he could have done is recovered his bear spray from his pack and stuck around to render aid. He has to live with the fact that he ran and the guide bled out. For the rest of his life he will wonder if he had stayed would he have been able to apply the tourniquet that saved a life.

Tough road for that young man. Honestly, less has ruined better. Hope he can overcome it.

 

[Azone]

It befuddles me that the 10mm wasn't "locked & loaded" and that the guide didn't go over how to use it with the client - and that the client was allowed to ditch his can of "bear off".

My thoughts exactly. Maybe the guide did and the client lost his shit and panicked and fight or flight took over and flight won for the client. Leaving town before the body was recovered strikes me as odd also.

 

[Mike7]

You clearly can't remove all risk and prevent every unlucky situation which can happen in the back country, but you can at least try to be aware of those risks. Stories like this make you aware.

How many here though would enjoy a completely predictable experience with no risk and which did not test you at some level?

Consider the following situations. How many people on this forum hunt solo and break down an animal at night on a steep hillside with their rifle placed safely out of the way on an empty chamber? How effective would a scoped rifle be in that nightime situation anyway, even if you could get to it in time?...or even in the above day time scenario with a guide & client attacked from close quarters?

 

[sandhillhunter]

the focus for me is that five children are fatherless and another mans life is ruined (regardless of fault).

Agree 100%



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[sandhillhunter]

I know this has been discussed, but the key to me in this case is that the attack occurred the following day.

I’ve never hunted or hiked in grizzly country, but I do know that they had the whole ride out the day the elk was shot and the ride back in the following day to prepare themselves for an encounter.

From what I’ve read about the grizzly’s sense of smell and ability to track down a carcass, it is surprising there weren’t already bears on the carcass when they got there the next day.

I would have thought they would have been extra vigilant when processing the elk. Locked and loaded with the glock, and bear spray in hand as well.


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[Mtslackcountry]

The client is neither a coward, or negligent. The guide could have done a few things different. 1. Prepared his client mentally. 2. Had his gun on him and loaded. 3. Made sure client had bear spray handy. It’s not the clients job to do all these things. I take people in the woods for a living and I make sure that I’m mentally preparing them and constantly checking there shits in order. Bear spray in the pack shouldn’t happen if a lecture before leaving the truck along with being observant of shit your client or group is doing wrong. Telling your client to have his bear spray on him at All times and getting on him when he doesn’t should be a guides protocol. Hell I do this to my buddies when we’re in the “shit”.
I’m not trying to bash the guide here!!!!! I’m just over these comments bashing the client. He was not prepared clearly and

 

[elkguide]

Having looked down the top of my handgun at an approaching grizz, it's an uncomfortable feeling. There are so many variables here and those happen everyday hunting in wilderness areas that have grizz in them. I've retrieved elk after an overnight and I tried to take a dog and/or another guide/person with a weapon with me. That wasn't always an option. Every time that I went into one of those situations, I'd like to think that I was on high alert. It's easy to get complacent...…. you just can't do that.

If that had been me, I would have hoped that my hunter would have tried to help and that I hadn't let my guard down and had set my weapon and spray aside. (I don't remember ever taking my handgun off nor my spray.) Still, one of the first things that as a guide I was tasked with was to protect my client.

One of the things that I was taught in my wilderness first aid class was how to make someone comfortable while they pass. It's a very hard life out there living/working with Mother Nature. Hope that we can all learn from this. My best for the wife and children left behind.

 

[tracker12]

We most certainly didn't rush to judgment on the client, it's right there in black and white months later. He ran to save his own ass, got a helicopter ride off the mountain, then ran with his tail between his legs back to Florida before the guide's body was even stiff. He's a POS , and he has to live with his actions the rest of his days. I hope they haunt him, because he did NOTHING right.

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Awfully easy to judge when sitting behind a computer. Him staying would not have changed the outcome except maybe getting killed himself. Sad all around for all involved.