BLM on two corners with Private on the other two, ok to cross corner?

[North Idaho Stickbow]

Do a flip over the corner like a ninja. Then you won’t technically be walking on anything.

 

[Dos Perros]

Also, intent has nothing to do with it. If the landowner or division sees you short cutting a piece of private you will get a ticket. Doesn't matter if you knew or not hence my response of you better know where you are, and a phone or standard GPS isn't what I would call reliable.

Depending on the state, intent absolutely does matter.

 

[Coveyleader]

Intent absolutely matters, and if you're "short cutting" through private rather than crossing the corner, then that's absolutely trespassing and you should get a ticket for trespassing to hunt. I believe in 100% of the supposed "corner crossing" tickets issued by wardens in Wyoming that is exactly what happened, somebody took a short cut rather than cross at the corner.

But, if you're following the best available technology and have a GPS track showing you crossed at the corner, no warden will write the ticket. Any DA with even one firing brain cell would never try to prosecute it either. The landowner and LEO would also have to be using the same technology in an attempt to "prove" you didn't step over the corner. Which would be impossible to prove without reasonable doubt.

Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. If that was the case, we'd claim ignorance on every law out there and say we're ok because we didn't know, but our intent was "just" That's not going to fly.

Also, you made my point about GPS tracks. It may show you that you crossed at the corner, but there is no way a non corrected GPS signal is going to get you down to where you need to be. So, instead of showing proof, you just incriminated yourself with your "Tracks" as they could be 10s of feet off. So, whether you like it or not, you just cut a landowners land intentionally, or not, and depending on said owner, you may be up shit crick.

 

[BuzzH]

Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. If that was the case, we'd claim ignorance on every law out there and say we're ok because we didn't know, but our intent was "just" That's not going to fly.

Also, you made my point about GPS tracks. It may show you that you crossed at the corner, but there is no way a non corrected GPS signal is going to get you down to where you need to be. So, instead of showing proof, you just incriminated yourself with your "Tracks" as they could be 10s of feet off. So, whether you like it or not, you just cut a landowners land intentionally or not, and depending on said owner, you may be up shit crick.

Read the Wyoming AG's opinion regarding intent to hunt private as a condition of trespass to hunt.

The AG opinion says that by crossing from one piece of public to another, at a corner, there is absolutely NO INTENT to do anything but hunt public land. The exact reason why Wardens in Wyoming have been instructed to not write tickets for corner crossing, and why they do not.

Take it up with Pat Crank, the AG who wrote the legal opinion, I have his number and you can tell him hello for me.

The trouble with this topic is people guessing and trying to play Matlock.

As to the GPS issue, try to remember where the burden of proof lies, with the prosecution to prove you DID NOT cross at the corner. Without a physical corner, there is no way for the prosecution to prove you didn't cross the exact corner either (you just admitted the technology isn't accurate enough).

Finally, think about why corner crossing is never prosecuted in Wyoming and why Wardens won't scratch a ticket for it either...there's your answer.

 

[Dos Perros]

Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. If that was the case, we'd claim ignorance on every law out there and say we're ok because we didn't know, but our intent was "just" That's not going to fly.

Intent is written into the law. That's not the case with all laws, but it is the case with this one.

 

[Coveyleader]

Read the Wyoming AG's opinion regarding intent to hunt private as a condition of trespass to hunt.

The AG opinion says that by crossing from one piece of public to another, at a corner, there is absolutely NO INTENT to do anything but hunt public land. The exact reason why Wardens in Wyoming have been instructed to not write tickets for corner crossing, and why they do not.

Take it up with Pat Crank, the AG who wrote the legal opinion, I have his number and you can tell him hello for me.

The trouble with this topic is people guessing and trying to play Matlock.

As to the GPS issue, try to remember where the burden of proof lies, with the prosecution to prove you DID NOT cross at the corner. Without a physical corner, there is no way for the prosecution to prove you didn't cross the exact corner either (you just admitted the technology isn't accurate enough).

Finally, think about why corner crossing is never prosecuted in Wyoming and why Wardens won't scratch a ticket for it either...there's your answer.

That's good to know for WY and may come in handy. As an FYI the guy who started the thread was referring to CO. Also, the proof may in fact lie with the prosecution, but let's not forget court costs no matter how petty the accusation, can turn into a lot of money. Proving your innocent can be very costly.

To the GPS, just about every DOW page I've read states something along the lines of "Hunters should always know where they are." Your GPS should be a great asset to you, just don't push it.

 

[ttltown]

The wardens I have spoken to in wyoming have advised not to corner cross. They have literally said that jurisdiction is in the county and that specific county attorney has the right to prosecute or not. lol m not sure if that is comforting or not…just shows how gray it is. My guess is regardless no one is going to Leavenworth for corner crossing. Is the potential for a landowner dispute and possible ticket even if you are in the tight worth it? Who knows. If you make it onto public and don’t enjoy your hunt because you’re stressed about crossing back unseen probably not worth it. If you are like some people brash AF and don’t have a care in the world….you’ll probably cross and kill that huge elk and it’ll all be golden


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuzzH]

That's good to know for WY and may come in handy. As an FYI the guy who started the thread was referring to CO. Also, the proof may in fact lie with the prosecution, but let's not forget court costs no matter how petty the accusation, can turn into a lot of money. Proving your innocent can be very costly.

To the GPS, just about every DOW page I've read states something along the lines of "Hunters should always know where they are." Your GPS should be a great asset to you, just don't push it.

View attachment 340045

Well aware of GPS accuracy have been using them for over 20 years almost daily at work. Used the old pluggers (military issue for civilian use) that you had to report daily for accountability since they differentially corrected in the field. Back in the days when they still scrambled the GPS signals with selective variability.

 

[Dos Perros]

That's good to know for WY and may come in handy. As an FYI the guy who started the thread was referring to CO. Also, the proof may in fact lie with the prosecution, but let's not forget court costs no matter how petty the accusation, can turn into a lot of money. Proving your innocent can be very costly.

To the GPS, just about every DOW page I've read states something along the lines of "Hunters should always know where they are." Your GPS should be a great asset to you, just don't push it.

View attachment 340045

You’re right in that Colorado law doesn’t require intent for third degree trespass.

 

[JZee]

View attachment 339508
Ok to cross the corner to the area with black scribbles?

Nope, it’s such a garbage rule. We need to fight hard to stop those that intentionally block access to public land.

 

[HuntHarder]

Good thing I pole vaulted in high school. I knew it would help me later in life. lmfao. I thought there were a few wardens or retired wardens on this site?

 

[Joshf303*]

View attachment 339508
Ok to cross the corner to the area with black scribbles?

I know exactly where you are referring to and I can tell you I know of 2 people personally that have been ticketed there. TIFWIW....

 

[Trial153]

Start with a provision in all grazing allotments renewals that part of the agreement is allow public access via public to public corner or they don’t get the allotment.

 

[mlgc20]

I've done this a few times. Don't think it ever occurred to me (until this thread) that I might be doing something wrong. Will probably just pretend I didn't see this thread and keep doing what I was doing.

 

[Southforkguy]

Do a flip over the corner like a ninja. Then you won’t technically be walking on anything.

Check Norris would make the corner cross him.

 

[Cowbell]

I dealt with this issue in WY just this year. Buzz is absolutely correct. I watched a guy "corner cross" 3 to 4 times on our property and miss an elk standing on private land. He never crossed at the correct corner - he went through private each time. He then shortcut through private 2 miles back to his truck. The warden would not write him a ticket. It was only my word against the poachers'. He offered to call the sheriff to come and cite a criminal trespass but would still be my word against his. The guy had no gps track, only marked pins - I told the warden "of course". Apparently there was a guy that shot an elk on checkerboard land in western WY just this year, with the anticipation to create lawsuits for the fish and game if he was cited and this has all the wardens on their heels. It's really a bad deal currently.
I get that landowners usually get the bad rap for this but imagine having bedded a 300" bull on private land only to have a public land hunter shoot at him directly underneath you and claim the bull was standing on the next ridge over when he shot. And your hunting buddy is hiking 2 miles to get to you to shoot the bull only to find a poacher standing there instead.

 

[Cowbell]

Check Norris would make the corner cross him.

Chuck Norris would call the deer/elk across the corner and then roundhouse him to death.

 

[AZ8]

I've done this a few times. Don't think it ever occurred to me (until this thread) that I might be doing something wrong. Will probably just pretend I didn't see this thread and keep doing what I was doing.

Ignorantia juris non excusat

 

[Bighorner]

I dealt with this issue in WY just this year. Buzz is absolutely correct. I watched a guy "corner cross" 3 to 4 times on our property and miss an elk standing on private land. He never crossed at the correct corner - he went through private each time. He then shortcut through private 2 miles back to his truck. The warden would not write him a ticket. It was only my word against the poachers'. He offered to call the sheriff to come and cite a criminal trespass but would still be my word against his. The guy had no gps track, only marked pins - I told the warden "of course". Apparently there was a guy that shot an elk on checkerboard land in western WY just this year, with the anticipation to create lawsuits for the fish and game if he was cited and this has all the wardens on their heels. It's really a bad deal currently.
I get that landowners usually get the bad rap for this but imagine having bedded a 300" bull on private land only to have a public land hunter shoot at him directly underneath you and claim the bull was standing on the next ridge over when he shot. And your hunting buddy is hiking 2 miles to get to you to shoot the bull only to find a poacher standing there

I can appreciate how frustrating that would be. I don't think anyone would argue that hunter was in the right in that instance as you describe it.

The rub comes down to intent to block access not to block trespass. Most of the time the corner issue is not that the small trespass hurts the landowner, it's that the landowner is accustomed to treating his lease ground like deeded to the exclusion of all others. I have went round and round in my mind trying to think of an equitable solution, but it is just a sticky subject.

 

[Cowbell]

I can appreciate how frustrating that would be. I don't think anyone would argue that hunter was in the right in that instance as you describe it.

The rub comes down to intent to block access not to block trespass. Most of the time the corner issue is not that the small trespass hurts the landowner, it's that the landowner is accustomed to treating his lease ground like deeded to the exclusion of all others. I have went round and round in my mind trying to think of an equitable solution, but it is just a sticky subject.

The biggest issue that causes this is the fact that non-deeded acreages sell tied to deeded acreages and a price is paid for that non-deeded ground that is atleast 50% of the cost of the deeded ground usually. It's not just an annual lease. Our public land needs major reform.