Broadheads Way off the Mark

[Ctitus25]

Morning everyone. So, this last February I put new strings on my bow and adjusted my peep. First thing I did was group my FP at 20 yards, then I adjusted the sight accordingly and regrouped. Once I felt good about this I threw on my broadheads (Iron Will S125's) and they grouped a good 8in up and left at 20 yards.

Now, I adjusted my sight and they are hitting center now, but my concern is that I'm not new to IW and they have always done well out of my bow. Has anyone else ever seen this much of a difference at 20yds? I'm taking them out to farther ranges today (out to 60yds) and if I start running into other problems I'm curious as to what you all think.

And before you ask, I have spin tested the arrows.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Elkhntr08]

After putting new strings and cables on my bows, the first thing I do is shoot through paper. After that’s done, I do a walk back tune with BH and FP. You have the retune your bow, not just resight it in. You changed things or you wouldn’t have had to move your sights. Start from the beginning.

 

[doncarpenter]

The first thing you should have done was retune your bow after changing the string and cables, which includes timing. I like to start with paper up close with a fletched shaft then move back from there. The last thing that I touch is my sight.

It's not impossible to get broadheads and field points hitting the same.

What's your bow set up? Do you have a press? Tuning experience?

Broadhead hitting left of field point

* move your rest left

* Put a twist in the Right yoke

* Remove a twist from the left Yoke

*Move the cams to the right with top hats or shims

Do the opposite for for broadheads to the right.


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[Ctitus25]

I'm shooting an RX1 at 70# with a #3 cam. The bow shop put the new factory strings on and I had them adjust the peep because I changed releases back to a trigger from a hinge. I don't have a press or much tuning experience so have usually always taken it to my pro shop. I've tried to paper tune in the past, but can never get my tear to be perfect. I know out of a hooter shooter there is no tear so the rest and spine is good.

 

[Brendan]

Pretty simple - you need to tune your bow, or have someone help you do it. If you don't have a press, your options are to take it to someone who does, or move the rest. You might want to make sure you're not getting fletching contact with rest or cables first though - can save you a lot of trouble.

My preference is always to make sure the bow has 100-200 shots through new strings, then is set up correctly, cams timed correctly, and then use yokes (or cam shimming) first, tiny movements of the rest last if needed.

If you want to try it on your own move rest left in tiny increments first. Then to correct if it's still hitting high move rest down in small increments. That should bring field points and broadheads together. Adjust the sight when you're done.

 

[Ctitus25]

Thanks for the input everyone, it gives me a starting point. I will trouble shoot it.

 

[V-TRAIN]

resight your bow at 20 with a field point then follow the steps in this thread with your rest.
this thread is fantastic, it walks you thru the process with pictures on how to broadhead tune.

Broadhead Tuning Day Today

www.archerytalk.com

 

[Ctitus25]

If it is showing no tear while on the hooter shooter is it a rest issue?

 

[Billy Goat]

If it is showing no tear while on the hooter shooter is it a rest issue?

The problem with a shooting machine is it doesn't account for your form issues. There is a difference in a bow being tuned in a machine, and one being tuned to the shooter.



You can try playing with your grip until you get your broadheads closer to your field points, but I'd tune the bow to the way you shoot it.

I have a bow that I can tune in the hooter shooter and it still shoots same with me holding it, however most don't. Close, but not exact.

 

[V-TRAIN]

don't worry about tears, paper tuning is like boar sighting a rifle, it is a initial tuning step.
i don't hunt paper, and i do not paper tune. i run a vertical line down a target face the with of electrical tape hit that line dead center from 8 feet then go to 20 yards. if missing the tape, i tweak the rest to hit the tape, using bare shafts in a foam target.

then i go straight to broadheads, and usually they are money, but sometimes i have to tweak some.

the hooter shooter is not you, you are the one that needs to be shooting not the hooter shooter.
if you slightly induce torgue, and the hooter shooter doesn't, then there are going to be differences.

the whole thing with paper is, if you spend all this time shooting paper, get a perfect tear, then have to tweak the rest to get broadheads to fly right, then go back and shoot paper, your perfect tare is gone. so if the end result is to get your broadheads flying right, what is the point of a perfect tare. i have always looked at it like a tuning step that can be skipped, and have never had a issue in doing so.

 

[nphunter]

There is only so much tuning you can do without a press. Your arrow should be 90deg with the string. You can check this with two small levels. One on the string and one on the arrow. Next take an arrow and hold it square to the back of the riser where the bolt attaches the rest, while holding the arrow square on that small metal surface on the back of the riser and with an arrow nocked measure the distance between the arrows right at the riser and at the front of the arrow just behind the tip. The arrows should be Parallel or very close to parallel. Next put an arrow tight against your top cam on the machined surface with the fletchings above the cam and the field tip at the string loop. With that bow the arrow when pressed tight and square to the top cam should just be crossing the d-loop with the edge of the arrow, this is showing slight cam pre lean. I would bet that your peep height and pre lean have slightly changed causing flight issues.

You can adjust for the first two, (center-shot and nock height) by moving the rest. You cannot adjust the pre lean without a press. As long as it’s close you should be good, however if your arrow is moving away from the string at the loop or the arrow is totally behind the loop, you should have that addressed before moving forward.

These are starting point for setting that bow up but should get you very close and after that you can make very small adjustments to dial in for form. If these 3 things are way out of spec you going to be fighting an uphill battle. If you need more clarification I can take some pictures of what I’m talking about.

Checking nock height and centershot will be much easier with two people. If you don’t have two levels you can hold the bow on a level surface, like a wall (check with a level), hold the cams against the level wall and set one level on the arrow.

Centershot should be somewhere around 13/16” from the riser just above the rubber for your arrow to run parallel out of the bow.

 

[Ctitus25]

This is all very interesting. I appreciate all this insight. I'll go home and try adjusting my rest. As suggested I will reset my sight for FP zero at 20yds, then adjust accordingly like in the link you sent me. Or should I start all the way over and bare shaft them at 8 ft and then at 20yards?

Do you find there are further tweaks you have to make once you put fletching back on? Also, are you still bare shaft shooting the tape with the broadheads or are you using fletchings with the broadheads and only bareshafting with the FP?

 

[Ctitus25]

There is only so much tuning you can do without a press. Your arrow should be 90deg with the string. You can check this with two small levels. One on the string and one on the arrow. Next take an arrow and hold it square to the back of the riser where the bolt attaches the rest, while holding the arrow square on that small metal surface on the back of the riser and with an arrow nocked measure the distance between the arrows right at the riser and at the front of the arrow just behind the tip. The arrows should be Parallel or very close to parallel. Next put an arrow tight against your top cam on the machined surface with the fletchings above the cam and the field tip at the string loop. With that bow the arrow when pressed tight and square to the top cam should just be crossing the d-loop with the edge of the arrow, this is showing slight cam pre lean. I would bet that your peep height and pre lean have slightly changed causing flight issues.

You can adjust for the first two, (center-shot and nock height) by moving the rest. You cannot adjust the pre lean without a press. As long as it’s close you should be good, however if your arrow is moving away from the string at the loop or the arrow is totally behind the loop, you should have that addressed before moving forward.

These are starting point for setting that bow up but should get you very close and after that you can make very small adjustments to dial in for form. If these 3 things are way out of spec you going to be fighting an uphill battle. If you need more clarification I can take some pictures of what I’m talking about.

Checking nock height and centershot will be much easier with two people. If you don’t have two levels you can hold the bow on a level surface, like a wall (check with a level), hold the cams against the level wall and set one level on the arrow.

Centershot should be somewhere around 13/16” from the riser just above the rubber for your arrow to run parallel out of the bow.

Pictures would help greatly. TIA

 

[nphunter]

After getting the above set close shoot your bow at like 6ft from a target, use your 30 yard pin. Adjust your site until your arrow hits with a field point dead center on a vertical line. Using tape is a good way to make a line on your target if it does t have one.

Once your arrow hits dead center on that line at 6ft then back up to 30 yards and shoot the same pin for the same line. This time of the arrow misses constantly to one side move the rest to bring the arrow to center. After 30 move back and do the same thing with the 50 pin of your comfortable and you shoot well enough at that distance to know if your constantly hitting one way or the other.

 

[nphunter]

Pictures would help greatly. TIA

Give me a few to dig my bow out. It is important to check the initial setup prior to tuning.

 

[Brendan]

resight your bow at 20 with a field point then follow the steps in this thread with your rest.
this thread is fantastic, it walks you thru the process with pictures on how to broadhead tune.

Broadhead Tuning Day Today

www.archerytalk.com

That thread has rest movements backwards for most, don't rely on it.

Broadhead left of field point, rest left should be your first try.

Much Better than that thread, use Tim Gillingham / Gold Tip's super tuning series in YouTube.

 

[Huntin wv]

This is all very interesting. I appreciate all this insight. I'll go home and try adjusting my rest. As suggested I will reset my sight for FP zero at 20yds, then adjust accordingly like in the link you sent me. Or should I start all the way over and bare shaft them at 8 ft and then at 20yards?

Do you find there are further tweaks you have to make once you put fletching back on? Also, are you still bare shaft shooting the tape with the broadheads or are you using fletchings with the broadheads and only bareshafting with the FP?

Only shoot bareshafts with field points. Use fletched arrows with broadheads.


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[nphunter]

Pre Lean Setting

Cam lean should be little no pre lean on the RX1. Typically a very small amount will work well with the edge of the arrow about even with the string. Parallel is OK too, you just don’t want it to be backward (will put your centershot our away from the riser and you don’t want a ton of pre lean, older Hoyt I normally setup with enough that the center of the field point was centered on the string. New Hoyts don’t require that much.

Arrow against/parallel to top cam

Arrow runs along string.

Edge of arrow should barely touch or slightly be behind string at center/d-loop.


Too much lean

Too much backward lean.

If yours looks like either of the last two pictures then the string needs adjusted before continuing on.

 

[Ctitus25]

Pre Lean Setting

Cam lean should be little no pre lean on the RX1. Typically a very small amount will work well with the edge of the arrow about even with the string. Parallel is OK too, you just don’t want it to be backward (will put your centershot our away from the riser and you don’t want a ton of pre lean, older Hoyt I normally setup with enough that the center of the field point was centered on the string. New Hoyts don’t require that much.

Arrow against/parallel to top cam
View attachment 179711
Arrow runs along string.
View attachment 179715
Edge of arrow should barely touch or slightly be behind string at center/d-loop.
View attachment 179718

Too much lean
View attachment 179719
Too much backward lean.
View attachment 179720
If yours looks like either of the last two pictures then the string needs adjusted before continuing on.

I'll check that before I do anything.

 

[nphunter]

Center shot adjustment.

This one is easier when you have help. The most important part is to hold the arrow tight against the back of the riser so it’s square. If you have a traditional QAD or similar it’s easier because you can hold the arrow in the angle above the rest arm and the riser plate and it’s easier to hold. Also make sure your tip of the arrow isn’t touching the riser arm behind the grip, I had to remove my field tip to clean. It’s easier without arrow collars

Holding the arrow parallel


One in rest and one on back and the arrows should be parallel.


Measure just in front of the rest first


Then measure at the tips


Adjust your rest to the side until the are running parallel with each other. I normally use a tape or small rule, this was easier for getting a picture.