Defund the Police?

[cuerro viejo]

You are shifting the meaning. I never said "unlawfully" and as anyone who follows the legal system knows "lawful" is largely subject to the interpretation of a judge informed by both statutes and case law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-live-updates/

Peaceful Protesters Tear-Gassed To Clear Way For Trump Church Photo-Op

After U.S. Park Police and National Guard troops pushed demonstrators out of Lafayette Park, President Trump walked from the White House to St. John's Church where he posed for pictures with a Bible.

www.npr.org

A photo op as protests swirled: how Trump came to walk to the church

Trump’s decision to walk to St John’s to be photographed with the Bible was another extraordinary decision made on the hoof

www.theguardian.com

What the ATF did to Randy Weaver was not unlawful, but it was wrong. What they did at Waco, TX also was never found to be unlawful. Nor was Operation Fast and Furious under Obama ever found to be unlawful. Nor was Hillary's use of a private email server. Nor was anything surrounding Benghazi. I guess you strongly support all those as well.

Actually this is once again leftist fake news, no tear gas was used.

Your idea and my idea of peaceful much very greatly. If all the protests where so peaceful at the whitehouse please explain how More than 60 Secret Service officers and special agents sustained multiple injuries in three days worth of violent clashes stemming from protests demanding justice for George Floyd in Washington, D.C.

I’m really curious what your definition of peaceful is. For life of me I can’t see how 60 injured Secret Service officers is peaceful....

 

[rodney482]

only police need guns~ democrats
Defund police~ democrats

liberals are a disease that will destroy our country

 

[Mike Islander]

You must be still in the basement

Take off the VR headset and turn off the news. Oh yeah, eat shit. You have to make a giant pile of assumptions to post something so stupid.

 

[Unoboats]

Your sounding pretty liberal right now, you evidently did not read my post all the way through. But we both are entitled to our individual opinions. Nuf said.
Bye!!

 

[Bsd0323]

and the ATF.

Here here.

 

[three5x5s]

LEO's do not make laws, just hired to enforce them. Want it OK to run red lights, change the law.

 

[elkguide]

So if we don't have the police anymore
and we shoot a home intruder,
what do we do with the body?


Asking for a friend.

 

[Milestone522]

Late to the discussion, and maybe my thoughts will seem outrageous.....

We give police departments and officers the powers to change lives, use deadly force, take lives, make life-and-death decisions, deal with injured and dying people, and so on. In rough summation, our very lives and futures are within the control of a police officer. That level of responsibility and accountability is on par with a medical doctor, a registered nurse, pharmacists and other professionals. These doctors, nurses and others are only allowed to be employed in their field after years of education (not months) and in every single state they must hold a recognized license to perform their work.

In addition to the above requirements, every one of these professional occupations is controlled by a state board which oversees the practice standards, licensure requirements, compliance and disciplinary actions of a given profession. These state boards exist to to protect the public, and they do so by holding their professionals to a very high standard. Even with that, there are always rogues, derelicts and outright criminals in any profession. The state acts to limit or remove their ability to continue working if they are deemed unfit or a threat to the public. Almost all states have a reciprocity agreement whereby an individual (say a pharmacist) who loses his license in any state is automatically unable to obtain licensure in another.

With all the inherent power and responsibility we give to a police officer (say a guy in a town of 10,000 people) why haven't we moved to the level of requiring at least 2 full years of college education (includes field hours with actual police work), a recognized degree, a standardized licensure process, and annual continuing education requirements? Why doesn't every state have a board which oversees all aspects of LE officer registration, compliance and discipline?

My doctor has to have 4-6 years of education and carry a license to practice medicine before he can prescribe a drug. If he screws it up he can lose his ability to work. A police officer has at least the equivalent power to affect lives, and it seems to me we should hold them to an equally high standard of conduct and practice. In so many ways it makes sense to reward our officers by having them be truly college educated professionals with licenses. I believe every state should have a professional board of review which has the ability to sanction or remove (from police work) an officer who has a pattern of repeated problems.

Don't de-fund. Re-think.

Kevin

I think some of your ideas are on par but need to be mandated at the Federal level. Here is why, California already has many of the things you listed, and I suspect most states if not all have some sort of POST (Peace Officer Standards & Training). Wanting people to be college educated does not necessarily create good police officers. The agency I retired from had three ways to get hired: A college BA/BS degree, Military experience, or a lateral officer (coming with experience from another agency). Many of those with a degree had difficulty learning and doing the job on the street as they lacked life experience and social skills, but had no issues with computers or report writing. The military hires did great on the street as they had been around people from different backgrounds, served overseas, and lived in difficult conditions, but had to learn the reports and paperwork side of things.

Big agencies (think LAPD/SFPD) cannot have a degree requirement as they cannot even keep up with hiring due to attrition and retirements. In California 75% of academy hires do not make it to retirement predominately due to injuries, but also do to officers quitting, being fired, etc. Small agencies with money can hire officers with Master’s degrees, but in reality due to being in affluent towns have very little crime, and on the other hand small rural agencies have no money and get the last of the litter so to speak. California has a difficult time in hiring right now even with only requiring a HS diploma or GED, even though you start at over 100K a year, and some agencies will give signing bonuses, pay for house down payments, cover moving costs, etc. Not many want the job. It is not worth the scrutiny, liability, or physical risk. If it were not for the military hires, most CA departments would be horribly understaffed.

Regardless, the State requires the same amount of yearly training with every agency in range, driving, defensive tactics, and the latest topics like mental illness, de-escalation, cultural awareness, and the one I just missed when i retired “unconscious bias”. Each officer has an ID number for CA POST which keeps track and makes sure you are in compliance. Additionally, officers go to outside training based on assignment (example: I went to homicide school in Detectives, and Firearms school when I worked on the range).

I was fortunate in my career that most of the officers I worked with were good people. There were a few over the years who got fired for being crooks, or heavy handed, and one even for being lazy, but in general most of the officers, deputies, or Chippies I worked with did a good job under often difficult circumstances. But I suspect we will always have to deal with bad apples as long as we hire from the human race. Just look at the military, most do an admirable job, but if they were all perfect they would not need a JAG. We can always use improvement.

The problem is, every state has their own standards. Unless the Feds make all 50 states have the same requirements, you will still have 50 different sets of policing. Think Wyoming hunting and their guide/wilderness rules, their state, their rules....police work is no different.

 

[Bsd0323]

What is going on is 'they' are going to give in on all kinds of things to '[energize' the anti Trump base so he looses and what 'they' want most to be re-elected. If Trump wins they will burn the country down.

It is all political, these are not social or practical ideas they are political actions.

This guy gets it. Here here

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Late to the discussion, and maybe my thoughts will seem outrageous.....


With all the inherent power and responsibility we give to a police officer (say a guy in a town of 10,000 people) why haven't we moved to the level of requiring at least 2 full years of college education (includes field hours with actual police work), a recognized degree, a standardized licensure process, and annual continuing education requirements? Why doesn't every state have a board which oversees all aspects of LE officer registration, compliance and discipline?

Don't de-fund. Re-think.

Because a medical professional has much more time to think, confir with collegues and make decisions. And if they F up....it's reviewed by a medical board of educated peers who are familiar with medicine...and have practiced same for years.

Much more akin to a car mechanic.

Law Enforcement Use of Force decision are most often needed to be made in seconds, not minutes. The expectation to run all the way up to the threshold of utilizing deadly force, then de-escalating to Customer Service and humanitarian efforts in 30 seconds. Why should an elected official, who is a civilian, with no practical application of the same law in actual field conditions....have the ability to weigh in on an outcome?

 

[Travistroop]

Do we also need to support the ones that kill an innocent family of 4 in a high speed chase because of a guy that ran a red light and they refuse to just let the shit go and move on with their day? Comply with my authority or else.......right.

If they ran they are not innocent. They don't know who they are chasing or why just that they are breaking the law.

 

[Jimmy]

So if we don't have the police anymore
and we shoot a home intruder,
what do we do with the body?


Asking for a friend.

I was gonna ask the same thing. I think we just go get the shovel and clean it up.

 

[Azone]

The left is finally calling in the loan and getting all their sheep to cause chaos so they can start striping our rights one by one. It’s obvious there is an agenda here, an agenda to push liberal and progressive ideology on to everyone. Racism is a two way street, when we can all start referring to each other as equals and not the shade of our skin, this shit stops.

While I might not be the biggest fan of authority, more so to do with the ego trips that are associated with a badge and a gun, I understand they have a tough job. Police live and work in a world where two seconds can be the difference between life and death, no one’s perfect, mistakes will happen. No way in hell though would I want to live in a society without some form of order, it would be an absolute shit show. I will add I have met some awesome individuals who are LEO, great people. I have also met some that were and are in need of a healthy piece of humble pie.

 

[Azone]

I was gonna ask the same thing. I think we just go get the shovel and clean it up.

Hogs eat damn near anything, just saying.

 

[shoeshineman]

If they ran they are not innocent. They don't know who they are chasing or why just that they are breaking the law.

If they ran they are not innocent. They don't know who they are chasing or why just that they are breaking the law.

 

[Ty619]

All this over a drug addict, thieving, thug, felon. High on meth AND fentanyl during this incident. I say good riddance. Democrats are pushing lawlessness and mayhem. There isn’t a thing in this country that couldn’t use reform. But, what excuse is that to destroy honest people’s livelihood? This is the same response that led to the Civil War. Democrats obviously haven’t learned their lesson. Round 2? Wether you like trump or not, you better seriously consider the direction of this country without him. You want socialism?? Haul ass to Venezuela and let me know how that works out for you. That is all

 

[Evol]

What is going on is 'they' are going to give in on all kinds of things to '[energize' the anti Trump base so he looses and what 'they' want most to be re-elected. If Trump wins they will burn the country down.

It is all political, these are not social or practical ideas they are political actions.

Do you think this is going to help Trump get reelected or hurt. I can see it both ways but I'm leaning toward helping.

 

[Mike Islander]

Your sounding pretty liberal right now, you evidently did not read my post all the way through. But we both are entitled to our individual opinions. Nuf said.
Bye!!

You make my point for me. That's the weakness of using text to communicate. For some reason people act on information they don't know, and can't know. Nuf said. I agree. Truce.

But if you take minute to read my posts you will realize how far off you are.

 

[Poser]

It amazing how many times it’s been discussed in this thread that “defunding the police” does not mean “no police” and yet quite a few posters still seem to be pondering what “no police” means (usually followed with a slew of buzzwords: sheeple, socialists, etc.)

 

[*zap*]

Do you think this is going to help Trump get reelected or hurt. I can see it both ways but I'm leaning toward helping.

It really comes down to Michigan and Pennsylvania according to my understanding. Personally, I believe we will see civil war no matter the result because it has gone too far and the division is too great to mitigate. Biden wins and I believe they will try to restructure the SCOTUS with a liberal majority so they can complete the transformation of America somewhat legally.