Doc says stay away from the red meat

[Midwest.Bushlore]

Things are getting better, that's good to see.

 

[5MilesBack]

You aren’t suggesting that smoking doesn’t cause cancer are you?

If it absolutely "caused" cancer, then every smoker would have cancer. The question is........why don't all smokers get cancer........if it "causes" it.

Is it a contributing factor to cancer? Probably. But would these people have gotten cancer anyway, even if they didn't smoke? That's a question we just can't answer. There are a bunch of people that get cancer (even lung cancer) that never smoked.

If you look at the history of government warnings on food stuff, they have flip-flopped all over the place for years in regards to their recommendations. But the real question is "why do people even follow their recommendations"? Everyone has an angle........be it money or whatever. Use the noggins that God gave you and live your life. It shouldn't take the government, a rocket scientist, or a doctor to convince you that putting smoke into your lungs is a bad thing.........even outside of cancer. We're all going to die eventually from something......even old age. That's inevitable. Use your head, live your life, and make sure you have eternity insurance......because even 20 year olds die each and every day.

 

[jspradley]

If it absolutely "caused" cancer, then every smoker would have cancer.

That's not at all how toxins work.

That's like saying if getting shot causes death then everyone who gets shot would die. Or that if cyanide was deadly everyone who was poisoned by it would die.

 

[5MilesBack]

That's not at all how toxins work.

That's like saying if getting shot causes death then everyone who gets shot would die. Or that if cyanide was deadly everyone who was poisoned by it would die.

Exactly. Can it? Probably. Does it in every case? Obviously not.

 

[Comerade]

We raise our own beef, they are not hormoned but are finished with barley.
They are as clean as the elk that live on our land.
Commercial beef, chicken etc are a different matter. Even so, the variety of processed , deep fried and industrially sweetened/ flavored foods often has no food value.
The deep fryer is public enemy #1, followed the other items mentioned above.
We must eat meat , we are omnivores. just be more selective of your prey.

 

[cuerro viejo]

From the research I have done, and acknowledging that I'm a chef not a doctor, it seems that it's the hormones and antibiotics used in the production of red meat that are the problem. Eskimos in the past eat virtually nothing but meat and blubber was a treat, yet they didn't really develop the Diseases of Civilization until they became, er, civilized.

USDA daily testing would disagree and proves that antibiotics theory wrong.

Particle size is the killer. Those with a disposition of a smaller dense sdLDL are reason people get heart attacks with perfect choslesterol numbers.

 

[Trr15]

If it absolutely "caused" cancer, then every smoker would have cancer. The question is........why don't all smokers get cancer........if it "causes" it l.

For the same reason only a percentage of people die in car accidents. There are different circumstances and different people are affected in different ways. Using that logic, would you argue that car crashes don’t absolutely kill people?



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[jorgensen.travis]

I was thinking, "good thing elk and venison is more of a brown." I see wild game as leaner than beef, but maybe I should have clarified? I'll lean towards staying away from the moo-cow in the meantime. Any other hunters been in my situation? How did you interpret that?

What does your doctor look like? If he's not in shape, I wouldn't take his advice on eating. If he's old, he's probably referencing data that he learned in school a long time ago. I would talk to people your age or older, that are in good health, and listen to them. Most of the data that a doctor gets his information from is influenced by big pharma $.

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[Midwest.Bushlore]

USDA daily testing would disagree and proves that antibiotics theory wrong.

Particle size is the killer. Those with a disposition of a smaller dense sdLDL are reason people get heart attacks with perfect choslesterol numbers.

Definitely a driver of drug resistant strains though. Again,, the practice seems to have changed in any event. I'm not involved at all in ranching at this point.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Definitely a driver of drug resistant strains though. Again,, the practice seems to have changed in any event. I'm not involved at all in ranching at this point.

That’s a whole other discussion. Essentially USDA prohibits drug residue in meats(beef, chicken etc), if it tests positive, it’s kicked out and an Agent follows the sells chain back to the producer... and they have a mediation

I honestly think vegans came up with the whole antibiotics and raised estrogen etc stuff, then marketing departments decided to go full tilt with it.

 

[5MilesBack]

Using that logic, would you argue that car crashes don’t absolutely kill people?

Of course. Car crashes "might" cause death........just as smoking "might".

It's like the statement that "alcohol causes alcoholism". Well, obviously if someone is an alcoholic it wasn't green tea that caused that, but at the same time........not everyone that drinks alcohol (even large quantities for some time) will become an alcoholic.

 

[dprice911]

Had this happen to a guy at work, he found out the hard way about a red tick exposure.

 

[cberry]

Can I ask his reasoning for telling you that?

So I checked back in for clarification, and his response is anything with a face and four legs will have high cholesterol. I am going to cut back on the moo-cow like previously stated, but elk and venison is something I'm not wanting to give up. I will switch up the work out routine from lifting 4 days a week and jogging one, to switching off every other for more cardio if high cholesterol is the worry.

 

[*zap*]

Just finished a 1/3# grass fed 7% fat pattie…..yummy.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

So I checked back in for clarification, and his response is anything with a face and four legs will have high cholesterol. I am going to cut back on the moo-cow like previously stated, but elk and venison is something I'm not wanting to give up. I will switch up the work out routine from lifting 4 days a week and jogging one, to switching off every other for more cardio if high cholesterol is the worry.

I can tell you first hand that cardio isn’t going to reduce high cholesterol. I had a widow maker heart attack at 43 just 7 months after I won the over 40 division of the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Pan ams. I had 100% blockage of the LAD artery. I was working out 2 hours a day 3-6 days a week. There is a 95% mortality rate and you typically don’t live longer than 10 minutes. I not only survived I did it with no damage to the heart. The doctor that put the stent in me said that BJJ saved my life. Because I was in such good shape I developed extra capillaries in the heart that kept enough blood running through the heart that the muscle didn’t die. For the record my cardiologist says venison is the only red meat that is ok with him more than very occasionally .


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[cornfedkiller]

So I checked back in for clarification, and his response is anything with a face and four legs will have high cholesterol.

Dietary cholesterol does not correlate with serum cholesterol.. eat less inflammatory foods and your cholesterol will go down.

Refer to posts #14, 15, 22, etc..

 

[Okhotnik]

I reread Undaunted Courage again recently. Great read about the Lewis and Clark exploratory expedition across the US. I was amazed at the physical exertion every day, carrying heavy packs ( 90 plus pounds) , pulling a large boat etc, covering over 20 miles most days without rest.

They basically subsisted on wild game shot and a few berries and some fish.
No one one got sick over 2 years and every one in his group made the journey.

Pretty amazing

I wonder why the medical profession never did a study on this? Could not find one

 

[gijosh316]

Do your own research. No really, put some serious time into this. I was trying to lose weight and get my cholesterol down by eating a very lean diet and didn't see much progress. I'm on keto now, eating bacon, meat cooked in heavy amounts of butter and the weight melted away. Most doctors are a little behind the times when it comes to a lot of new information coming out about how the body adapts to fats. There is more to this than stuffing your face with bacon though so as I suggested, research first.

 

[whereisfredbeckey]

Interesting thread. I was recently tested and had high LDL. High enough my doctor wanted me to go on a statin. He also recommended a Mediterranean diet. I went on the statin and go back in a couple weeks to get tested. I'm eating a lot less red meat now and tracking my overall diet. My doc wasn't too optimistic about getting the LDL lower with diet alone and his take was the statin works even if I get sloppy with the diet.

 

[WannabeHunter]

So I checked back in for clarification, and his response is anything with a face and four legs will have high cholesterol. I am going to cut back on the moo-cow like previously stated, but elk and venison is something I'm not wanting to give up. I will switch up the work out routine from lifting 4 days a week and jogging one, to switching off every other for more cardio if high cholesterol is the worry.

A little background on myself; I've been an acute care (hospital) pharmacist for 10 years. I have access to a reference called UpToDate. It is used by many practitioners as a strong general reference. I can send you pdf's of articles about cholesterol/dietary fat/lifestyle modifications if you so desire. But I would caution using any public forum as a means of research. Just in this thread alone there has been contradictions, false statements, pure conjecture, and anecdotal evidence.

We do not know enough about yourself, your history, your family history, other treatments attempted etc, to properly guide you. That's what a practitioner-patient relationship is all about.